Do premium IEMs sound better than entry level ones?

[vsch]

Recently, I bought a pair of Truthear x Crinacle Zero RED IEMs with a Moondrop FreeDSP cable to EQ them even closer to the IEF target. The sound quality is outstanding. Every time I put them on, the clean bass and the level of detail amaze me. I enjoy listening on these cheap IEMs at least as much as on my desktop (Genelec 8030c + Arendal 1961 1S + miniDSP Flex) or living room (5.1 comprising KEF HTS 3001, SVS SB1000 classic, Denon AVC-3800h, and A1 Neuron) setups. The passive noise isolation is also great for commuting on the train and, at least subjectively, beats the active cancellation of my Sony WH-1000MX3.

In short, the experience has been quite transformative. I did not believe this level of performance to be possible, let alone for just ~100 bucks. I am extremely grateful to the community on this forum -- and especially @amirm -- for pointing me in that direction.

Now, I wonder whether more premium IEMs, such as, e.g., Moondrop x Crinacle Dusk or Thieaudio Monarch Mk. II, sound even better? Looking at the measured frequency responses (particularly after applying EQ), my intuition says no. However, I somehow find it hard to believe that their more complex construction and higher cost would "only" result in more pride of ownership, collectible value, and maybe better comfort. Being a total noob when it comes to IEMs, I'm a bit at a loss regarding this question and wonder whether I'm missing something.

 

[RandomEar]

Congrats on questioning the basic audiophile mantra that more money = better sound quality. The answer is: There is no clear correlation (anymore) between these two variables. Maybe there was 50 years ago, but certainly not today. There are excellent HiFi devices for a lot of money and also for very little money.

You will be hard pressed to find IEMs with lower distortion and an FR significantly closer to the Harman target, regardless of the money you spend. If you happen to like the Harman target, the Zero Reds are excellent IEMs. If you want a little more bass or treble without EQ, you can get that for hundreds of dollars - and for less than 30.

However, to be fair, IEMs are a complex topic and their fit in your ear and interaction with your ear canal do have a significant influence on the sound. The FR measured on a fixture will not be equal to the FR you experience. So there is value in different geometries, tip sizes and so on. Therefore, it might happen that a very expensive IEM fits your ear better and you prefer it over some cheaper ones. But I'd argue that this would not be because it is expensive.

Spending more money gives you more options, but they're not necessarily better with regards to sound quality.

 

[JanL]

As stated on this and other forums, price and sound quality of IEMs don't track and one can get outstanding results for little money.
That said, there are better IEMs than the Zero Red out there.
I just recently went through the exercise of comparing all of my IEMs to one of my least expensive IEM back to back and taking notes.
This included IEMs ranging in price from the $35.00 Kiwi Ears Cadenza all the way up to $1700.00 64 Audio Nio. I listened to them with no processing.

The two single DD and least expensive IEMs were in the middle of the pack when it comes to my preference, but the most expensive IEM came out on top.
It's not a blind test so it's worthless to anyone looking for objective rating, but the one thing to note is that I rated some relatively expensive IEMs lower than single driver IEMs, so I'm at least partially non-partial to the money spent.

The one thing to note when it comes to IEMs is that measurements don't necessarily reflect how each person perceives their sound. It's well documented that the same IEM will have different response in different ear canals, so subjective rating is very much a valid method when it comes to IEMs.

 

[JanL]

The best way for you to find out how you rate IEMs from different price ranges and different configurations is to come to a show like the CanJam and try a bunch for yourself.

 

[usern]

Most of the world does not have CanJams.

 

[Sebby]

In 10 years I have really tried an infinite number of IEMs and yes, the price is not always related to the sound quality.
It also depends on the target you are aiming at: if you want a classic Harman, under 50€ you have an infinite choice.

Going up in price the real differences are in the extension of the highs, which for me is essential. I, for example, do not like Harman tuning so almost all the options are not practicable. I use E.Q. a lot, but when you have an IEM with a poor extension of the highs, with E.Q. you do not solve that problem. My favorite IEM is "DUNU SA6 II" (I don't need E.Q.) and subsequently IE200/IE600, being among the rare IEMs with a single dynamic driver that do not have the problem of Roll-Off on the highs.
For me it is not necessary to spend 1000-2000-3000€ (at the High End in Munich I tried a 2000€ Fiio and it had a fairly standard sound), but under certain figures there remain some limits that are difficult to overcome. I happen to use Zero 2 with the E.Q. and the level of quality for the money spent is impressive, but the limits exist and are there. I still hear the 17 kHz well and the lack of "air" for me kills the soundstage, which is very important for me.
Having a good adherence to Harman is quite simple from a technical point of view and being very popular reduces the price per single unit, but if you want something different that cannot be obtained with the E.Q. you must necessarily go up in price.

In conclusion and as far as I am concerned, if you are not looking for something ultra-specific, the big differences decrease drastically around 150€

 

[wwenze]

FR is a done deal, next is comfort, isolation ie everything else

 

[Dazerdoreal]

When I was in Munich, my favorite IEM was the Softears RSV. Comfort, Looks, Isolation and Tuning was just how I want it.
The tuning is exactly in between Harman and "Meta" (by the time it was released Meta did not exist). I did not like the Volume S as much, by the way.

But I'd feel a bit dumb paying 600 for an IEM, knowing that it is absolutely possible that someone somewhen will do the same tuning for 50. The closest tuning I found on Squiglink is the EPZ P50, but I dont want my IEM for me to be "open".

(Of course I could also EQ it, but I dont like EQing on IEMs.)

 

[Sebby]

When I was in Munich, my favorite IEM was the Softears RSV. Comfort, Looks, Isolation and Tuning was just how I want it.
The tuning is exactly in between Harman and "Meta" (by the time it was released Meta did not exist). I did not like the Volume S as much, by the way.

But I'd feel a bit dumb paying 600 for an IEM, knowing that it is absolutely possible that someone somewhen will do the same tuning for 50. The closest tuning I found on Squiglink is the EPZ P50, but I dont want my IEM for me to be "open".

(Of course I could also EQ it, but I dont like EQing on IEMs.)

If that's what you like, it's not stupid to spend that money.
I find it more stupid, excuse the frankness, not to spend because it is "assumed" that you can have the same thing for a lower price, which is not entirely true. If you find something cheap with the same sound, I'm very happy for you, but denying yourself something for ideology makes no sense.
If there is no other IEM with that sound, then the price is right.

If the problem is the lack of economic availability (I don't know your situation and I don't care to know), then the problem is not what we are talking about.

 

[Palladium]

The only expensive IEM I tried was the Blessing 3 Dusk and it felt meh.

 

[digitalfrost]

I bought quite a few IEMs over the years, tho nothing ridicilously expensive, I think my max was 420€. I want to say, maybe a single DD is not the best, but this more drivers are better that is done with the highend end IEMs is a bit of joke really. Like say you have 7 drivers in 1 IEM, imagine how split the frequency range is, after all it's only ~ 10 octaves we can hear. Personally I would say that fit/comfort and frequency response are much more important than the amount or the type of drivers in the IEM.

Especially how deep they fit and your anatomy will affect your ear canal resonance.

Every 6 months there is a new best in price-class IEM that you have to try and all the reviewers are shilling.

If you look at how the frequency targets have changed, my initial impression coming from good speakers was correct: The old IEMs lacked lower mids and were too bright. These new targets like JM-1 are much better. But even here I tend to use custom made EQ with every IEM anyways. I really like that the EQ tools now have the ability to change tilt and ear gain. But if you EQ anyway, what does the original frequency response matter?

I like the Kiwi Ears Quintet quite a lot because they fit me well, but they are really bright out of the box. Another I like is the Artti R2. The big boys IEMs I don't wear much anymore simply because they are so big.

So in summary. It was fun for a while, but in the end I did not need to buy all of these IEMs. Find some that you like from a optics/price/performance perspective and make sure they fit you well, everything else can be mostly fixed if good measurements are available. Especially in the beginning you do now know what you like, so to gain experience I would buy something cheap. If uncorrected frequency response is important to you for some reason, you can then later on make a better informed buying decision.

 

[EERecordist]

Good topic for ASR.

Maybe you could look at IEM development from the standpoint of the product manager and the product engineer. This idea applies across audio, and most designed products.

The product manager is responsible for defining the target customer segment, and sales price in relation to the manufacturing cost, and all the other aspects of the product. So the high-end product managers built expensive IEMs with the idea that custom cables, or small scale production drivers would be better. The multiple drivers, their geometry before joining into the IEM silicone tip, and the crossover define the results measured by Amir with the special fixture. It is even possible the high end product engineers did not have access to calibrated test equipment.

I think the Asian manufacturers just out-innovated on engineering and supply chain from under the high end makers. The low cost product managers, produced a better, faster, cheaper product than the high-end product managers. Another example is class-d power amplifiers and the mass production of Texas Instruments modules.

Everyone's ear is different in many small ways, the test fixture is not a specific individual's ears, and there is confirmation bias. But it is increasingly probable that today price is not the determinant of objective quality. It is often true today that larger scale manufacturing supply chain has better objective statistical quality than an artisan supply chain.

I would like to see some teardowns of these products too. There are several videos online. The product engineers should be doing that as part of their competitive analysis. Certainly Samsung-Harman has the resources and would be doing that.

 

[Curupira]

I've just sold my Hype 4s after getting the Zero Reds, so that's telling.

I got the Reds out of curiosity, and expected them to sound like most other well measuring cheap single DD iems like the Zero 2s, the KZ D-FI and most others I've owned and that are well received on this site: surprising bass with somewhat edgy mid-range and muted treble extension (that's my experience with the Zero 2s in a nutshell ). What I got was quite the opposite, with better bass quality than the thumpy Hype 4s, a very revealing and yet neutral mid-range and treble extension that doesn't need any EQ, unlike the Hype 4 splashy "supertweeter" high treble. As a lot of people complain about the Reds treble extension, I guess I lucked out on the ear resonance lottery, knowing for a fact that I have a resonance around 11-12khz that amplifies that region. Thing is, I still find the zero 2s unextended and undetailed.

What this personal experience indicates to me, personally, is that getting a tuning closer to your own HRTF, either by the FR itself and by nozzle format and eartips, is much more important and tangible than chasing fancy driver count and a higher price tag.

 

[Phorize]

There are certainly some iems in the above budget price range that have a nicer build quality/accessories that iems such as the TE, but diminishing returns kick in extremely quickly as price goes up. Sound wise it's possible lo achieve perfection for under $100, so if you are happy with the build, comfort and accessories there is no reason to spend more.

 

[Madlop26]

I do own the Dusk II, Thieaudio Monarch Mk. II, and Truthear x Crinacle Zero RED, I have done extensive abc testing, I did not like the Dusk II sound, not as defined?, boomy?, should not be, as the 3 have similar FR, after a while I gave up with the Dusk II, I was thinking must be a bad sample; anyway After months and months of using The Monarch and the Red I could not hear any meaningful difference in sound quality, maybe the Monarch has some advantage in the sub bass?, sometimes, in some particular songs can make my head shake, they are heavier than the red so maybe a factor there, but the red is not slouch in the sub bass either. I tend to use the Monarch more these days just because of the premium feeling.

 

[JanL]

I've just sold my Hype 4s after getting the Zero Reds, so that's telling.

I got the Reds out of curiosity, and expected them to sound like most other well measuring cheap single DD iems like the Zero 2s, the KZ D-FI and most others I've owned and that are well received on this site: surprising bass with somewhat edgy mid-range and muted treble extension (that's my experience with the Zero 2s in a nutshell ). What I got was quite the opposite, with better bass quality than the thumpy Hype 4s, a very revealing and yet neutral mid-range and treble extension that doesn't need any EQ, unlike the Hype 4 splashy "supertweeter" high treble. As a lot of people complain about the Reds treble extension, I guess I lucked out on the ear resonance lottery, knowing for a fact that I have a resonance around 11-12khz that amplifies that region. Thing is, I still find the zero 2s unextended and undetailed.

What this personal experience indicates to me, personally, is that getting a tuning closer to your own HRTF, either by the FR itself and by nozzle format and eartips, is much more important and tangible than chasing fancy driver count and a higher price tag.

I have the Hype 4 as well and while I agree about the zing, especially when switching from DD treble, it sounds good at lower volumes to me. When I crank it a little, it sounds aggressive in the top end, but not more than many other highly rated IEMs.
The low end of the Hype 4 is great at any volume to me. I like physical bass and the Hype 4 has a good approximation of that type of bass. Some bassy IEMs sound bloated in the bottom octave to me, the Hype 4 has strong but even bass. No bloat.

 

[vsch]

Thanks a lot to all of you for taking the time to share your experience. What a great forum.

 

[sejarzo]

<snip> But if you EQ anyway, what does the original frequency response matter? ...

If uncorrected frequency response is important to you for some reason, you can then later on make a better informed buying decision.

You nailed it.

To me, Harman is about right other than ~2 dB excess boost at the top of the treble hump. I'm 67 and don't hear anything above 12k, if that.

For me, any headphone that is is close to Harman and has low distortion at 104 dB works about equally well--as long as it fits comfortably and I get a proper seal--because I can confidently EQ it to taste based on my experiences listening to live performances.

 

[Palladium]

Thanks a lot to all of you for taking the time to share your experience. What a great forum.

IMO its safe to say don't expect miracles in this IEM climate. Even for speakers I still haven't heard anything that got me remotely go wow as much as my LSR305s bought in 2013.

 

[Sebby]

IMO its safe to say don't expect miracles in this IEM climate. Even for speakers I still haven't heard anything that got me remotely go wow as much as my LSR305s bought in 2013.

Are they pre-amplified?
I know they are excellent monitors, even looking at the measurements, but I have a doubt: does the tweeter make "background noise" or is it completely silent?
1 year ago I bought some Adam 5 and the tweeter was very noisy and could be heard even at 1m at medium-low volume and I was forced to return them