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Eartips - have a significant impact on an IEM's sound - Would like to fully understand the WHY - please what are the factors involved?

Then the question becomes: “As an aside, what does anyone do with all the wrong sized tips responding IEMs (FR) you collect with iem tips and multi sized FR iem sets?”

My nieces, nephews and sisters all have an endless supply of IEMs (whit their corresponding tips lots of tips) for the foreseeable future :D.
All of them listen daily to music and appreciate a better IEM than the ones supplied with their phone/pc/tablet and the nephews go through IEMs as if they were free :p.
 
They did f***ed up the picture!
This one looks correct more believable :rolleyes:
View attachment 420858
Although… I still don’t quite understand their point about the center of gravity. But it’s probably me :)
Now I‘m very much concerned. Is this the expected mount of ear tips?! At least my ear canals won‘t ever take that much of an insertion depth, not even with the smallest available. I‘m a tall guy, hat size is 61cm circumference, and I‘ve never heard any notion on something special with me, when I bought ear protection.

As I feel it, only the tip of the tip shall hug the entrance of the ear canal, and the collar of the tip is to hold it against the outer ear, left side of the „bone“.
 
Now I‘m very much concerned. Is this the expected mount of ear tips?! At least my ear canals won‘t ever take that much of an insertion depth, not even with the smallest available. I‘m a tall guy, hat size is 61cm circumference, and I‘ve never heard any notion on something special with me, when I bought ear protection.

As I feel it, only the tip of the tip shall hug the entrance of the ear canal, and the collar of the tip is to hold it against the outer ear, left side of the „bone“.
I don’t know if there is a definitive, universal, answer—any specialist insight from ASR members?
What you describe is very much how I perceive it for my ear canals. The exception being Etymotic’ super deep insertion IEMs.
I take these pictures as mostly Marketing BS…
 
apologies if off topic...
in pro sound the foam shure sleeves (yellow EAYLF1) are well regarded, preferred for long usage times and the seal is proper.
(compressible foam sleeves become cumbersome if one needs to frequently take headphones off.)
sold as disposable, they can take a few washes.
there are counterfeits on the market.
 
Lol! To stay on topic for a bit at least.

I ordered this ones just out of curiosity knowing they were going to be crappy, they are a bit rigid but after taking out the foam they are not bad at all they fit my ears well, the tip has more or less the shape and bore size of the KBear07, I've been using it for outdoors and because it's a bit more rigid it feels more stable while walking with heavier IEMs.

View attachment 420885
Got a link for these please? They look a bit like Zeos' Render tips- foam with silicone outer and core. They can work for me but I need to stay very still or out they pop. Prefer them to pure foam though which I find a bit icky.
 
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I have a pair of 7Hz x Crinacle Zero:2. They're fantastic but I'm using the red tips (the largest) and I need to constantly push them in to get a good seal otherwise the base starts to fade away. Is there a recommended replacement I can use? How will I know any given pair will fit this IEM? I have the feeling these ones would be fine if they were more rubbery/sticky!

Anything I say here is subjective. I have no measurements, so if that's what you are looking for, please ignore, cos I am not an audio scientist. Nevertheless there is no harm in trying things out, on a subjective basis, you have very little to lose. Worst case, my observations are not repeatable when you listen for yourself, and try out what I have suggested.

1st we all hear so differently, and measurements are only one aspect of predicting how each of us will hear a listening device, so your mileage may vary.

I must credit 7Hz for providing a pretty good set of options, in ear tips. One reason I'm responding is I have been in the same boat. Bought a 7Hz Zero 2, and also had the best fit with the Red ear tips, which I think are the largest ear tips, they provide, as delivered.

In my case, I enjoy an excellent fit, with these red tips.

There are two excellent videos I came across in recent times, that discuss ear tips from two perspectives - fit and bass response . Please see links inline below. I'll post a 2nd response with my specific tip recommendations, based on what has worked well for me.

FIT :


BASS RESONSE :

 
I have a pair of 7Hz x Crinacle Zero:2. They're fantastic but I'm using the red tips (the largest) and I need to constantly push them in to get a good seal otherwise the base starts to fade away. Is there a recommended replacement I can use? How will I know any given pair will fit this IEM? I have the feeling these ones would be fine if they were more rubbery/sticky!

My tried and tested ear tip recommendations

1. TRI CLARION

1st ear tips, that I have no problem recommending are the TRI Clarions. They cost typically less than $5 for a set of three pairs, on AliExpress.com, and usually less than $3 including tax, for a set of three pairs. You can either get these as 3 sets of the same size, or 3 sets of 3 different sizes. The available sizes are Small, Medium and Large.

The inner bore is wide enough to, without too much effort, fit all the IEM's I have owned. And note most ear tips have a decent amount of stretch in the inner bore, and there is a technique of slipping them on one side first, and then sliding the other side over, rather than trying to slip the entire ear tip on at the same time. This technique works especially well for IEMs with a larger nozzle diameter.

Every ear tip will change the frequency response. From my experience, subjectively the TRI Clarion attenuates the sub bass and bass, a bit, enabling focus on the mid frequencies, it also appears to attenuate the scratchy high frequencies, delivering a "smoother" listening experience, in bass, mids and highs, somewhat reversing the boom and tizz of V shaped frequency responses, such as the 7hz Zero 2, is a bit prone to.

The net result is, to my ears, brighter than the stock red tips on the 7hz Zero 2.

Nevertheless, when I use the Tri Clarion Large ear tips, I get a really good fit. Decent, satisfactory, but not overblown bass. And a very clear intelligible response, especially listening to spoken word. Music is pretty decent with the pairing of the Tri Clarions and the 7Hz Zero 2's and in my opinion a minor cost, for a pretty significant improvement on the stock ear tips. So great fit, and improved balance of frequency response and clarity on the Zero 2's. A very comfortable non fatiguing listen.

I think the Tri Clarions, may attenuate the overall loudness a bit, in comparison, due to the different fit, and change in distance from the ear drum or absorption of sound, so you may need to bump up the volume compared to the setting you use with the stock red tips.

Finally a slight bit of pressure may be needed with the Tri Clarion Large ear tips, cos they are definitely shorter than the stock red tips of the Zero 2's.. So that extra bit of firm pressure to seat them properly, may be needed. I'm assuming you will need something like the Large size.

I find them excellent for long term listening on the Zero 2's. And better, in my opinion, than the outcome with the stock red tips.

2. Moondrop SPRING

This comes in 4 sizes, Small, Medium, Large and XL(Extra Large). I use the XL's., which are a bit difficult to find, but HifiGo.com sells them. The other sizes are available from lots of online stores, including AliExpress.com, as well as from Hifigo.com

They are typically about $12 to $15 for three pairs of each size.

The advantage of the Moondrop Spring over the Tri Clarion, is they are larger and even better fitting, in my opinion, comfortable. But they also open up the entire frequency range, from deep bass to upper treble. That may be a good or a bad thing. Depending on your preferences. This opening up of the top and bottom of the audible frequencies, may throw up even more anomalies, if they exist, with the IEM,. in this aspect.

While the Clarions smooth the bass and treble extremes over, for a comfortable listen, the Moondrop SPRINGS reveal, by smoothing even more the harsh frequencies, for a more comfortable presentation of vocals, very smooth, and deep natural bass and mids. Some may find the SPRINGS a bit too smooth, attenuating the high frequencies, just a bit too much. In my opinion, it smooths out transients a bit too much, robbing the end result of a bit of its edge/subjective clarity. But this makes for an even more comfortable non fatiguing listen, which is sufficiently clear.

I find both of these ear tips an improvement on the stock Red ear tips, in overall fit, with a more even, less harsh frequency response.

I think I prefer the Tri Clarions, on the 7Hz Zero 2's, just a bit more than the Moondrop SPRINGS. They tease out a certain clarity and emotional connectiveness with vocals, which are slightly brighter and more engaging on the Clarions. With the SPRINGS, vocals seem closer and more intimate, like someone singing close to your face.

So there you have it. Two good options. In my opinion.
 
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Eartips are fundamental in iems world since perfect seal is mandatory to get proper sound.
Given this for granted, looking for a defined scientific rule about them is impossible since all depend on personal ear canals shape and their interaction with dfferent iems body and nozzle shapes, so trial and errors is the only way we can follow.
Anyway there are some points that one have to learn just to not start from scratch for any different iem one can get, an for me they were:
- start with at least a couple of iems with different nozzle length\insertion depth: from there i learned the generally i need large or largest tips (> 12.5 mm width)
- once i established I need large tips, i found that generally for iems with longer nozzle and deep insertion I'm ok with 12.5-13.00 mm tips, while for iems with short nozzle\shallow insertion I need larger tips (13.5-14.00 mm)
- from there i get some pack of cheap but good tips, specifically:

TRN T Large (12.8 mm)
View attachment 418855

Tri Clarion Large (14 mm)
Tri Clarion Mid (12.6 mm)

View attachment 418854

Kbear 07 Large (13.7mm)
View attachment 418856


A large slection of no brand super cheap tips from Aliexrpess from 12 to 13 mm and different shapes, they turned out useful in some specific situations.


With this selections i covered all the sizes i possibly need and different shapes and bore sizes, and use them an all iems i own, the only one still going with stock tips is 7Hz Zero that was immediately good with stock large tips (the yellow ones) and never ever tried with others.

Going further than this, for me, is over-complicating things, because, imho:
- tips must give the tightest seal possible, because FR measurements and consequent EQ are (or should be) made in this way
- once perfect seal is ensured for bass, tips shape and bore size can affect high frequency by some extent but it variate from iem to iem and, again, with our ear canals resonance, so using tips to "equalize" can be a way of convenience but it cannot be a certain scientific way.

Some reviewers do measurements with different tips, like listener, so one can see the impact on different iems and make an idea.
As an example, using Kbear 07 on the TE Zero:Red i had an impression of rolled off highs that later i found confirmed on his site:
View attachment 418863

here the dip was huge, but in most cases the difference are subtle and difficult to hear.
I just wanted to thank you for your post. I've recently picked up a pair of Truthear Nova's and my SpinFit tips weren't quite doing it for me. I ordered some TRN T and some Tri Clarion tips. For me they both fit better than the SpinFits that I have. I'm particularly impressed with the TRN T. Great fit and great sound. They're also super cheap, which always helps. They also stretch to fit the Truthear Zero nozzle, which is no mean feat!
 
I tend to use always AZLA SednaEarfit Origin, usually ML size, although sometimes M size if the iem nozzle is wider than usual. Also feel comfortable with Spinfit W1 and CP100.
 
I just wanted to thank you for your post. I've recently picked up a pair of Truthear Nova's and my SpinFit tips weren't quite doing it for me. I ordered some TRN T and some Tri Clarion tips. For me they both fit better than the SpinFits that I have. I'm particularly impressed with the TRN T. Great fit and great sound. They're also super cheap, which always helps. They also stretch to fit the Truthear Zero nozzle, which is no mean feat!
Glad being of help.
TRN T-tips really are great, my only complaint is they don't provide a larger size, and that's the reason i also got Tri-Clarion and KBear 07 to cover all situations.
 
As this seems to be a meeting place for people with great ears, large ear canals and fit issues with L tips I feel invited to tell my experience. I have large ear canals plus big ears that (as I found out very late) require a bit more insert depth than standard. I never was a friend of IEMs because of my sealing issues, matching tips were never provided. Until years ago a friend recommended a very expensive IEM that came with a set of Comfy ear tips, where the Large one finally was able to close my ear canal - following some happy years until the foam broke.

Those supplied Comfy Large had an outer diameter of 14.5 mm, while the ones available in any store are 14 mm. Following was some time where I started to hate the whole ear tip industry - why does no one make a (real) XL ear tip with 15 mm diameter?

I got me the Zero 2 because of Amir's review and immediately had the same issue again - no perfect sealing, no bass. So I continued to buy ear tip after ear tip until I hit the jackpot with the Divinus Velvet Wide Bore. They are 14 mm as well, but their shape and design is different. This causes a perfect seal for me, combined by the shape (more diameter near the sound output) and a bit more insertion depth.

The Divinus come as pair of three, so I was able to put them on my old IEMs, the Zero 2, and a cheap BT pair that I use during fitness training - they work perfectly everywhere.
The tips made it finally possible to think about Apple's AirPod Pro. I knew their tips will not match my ears, but Divinus has the Velvet Wide Bore also as special AirPod Pro version. Quite expensive, but when they work that won't matter. So I got the AirPod Pro 2nd gen, the Apple tips sucked (as predicted), and the special Velvet - well, nearly worked. Means much better but not as perfect as the normal Divinus.

What I found out: shape and diameter is identical, so that can't be the reason. But putting on the original Velvet with the special adapter that is supplied for AirPod use the seal is perfect. Hmmm, ok, not what I expected, but then I just use the original Velvet with that (now really expensive) adapter, right? Nope. Trying to put the AirPods in their charging case it dawned on me what's going on, and I should have seen that before: they don't fit in anymore. Divinus had to reduce the length a bit for them to fit in, and that causes a bit less insertion depth in my ears.

Ears are very individual, and one reason I can't shove the AirPods Pro more in is that my Tragus is strong, big, and in the way of the AirPod's stem. Realizing this I found a simple solution: rotating the AirPod so the stem points upwards gives me full insertion depth and perfect sealing with the AirPod Velvets (plus I look like an alien now....).

Here is a simple tip to check the sealing. Put your fingers into your ears and hum with closed mouth. Move your fingers until you perfectly close the ear canal. This is easy to notice as the hum sound then comes from within the middle of your head. You must have the same strong and strange sound effect when inserting IEMs and humming with closed mouth. If not seal is bad and you need different tips.
 
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As this seems to be a meeting place for people with great ears, large ear canals and fit issues with L tips I feel invited to tell my experience. I have large ear canals plus big ears that (as I found out very late) require a bit more insert depth than standard. I never was a friend of IEMs because of my sealing issues, matching tips were never provided. Until years ago a friend recommended a very expensive IEM that came with a set of Comfy ear tips, where the Large one finally was able to close my ear canal - following some happy years until the foam broke.

Those supplied Comfy Large had an outer diameter of 14.5 mm, while the ones available in any store are 14 mm. Following was some time where I started to hate the whole ear tip industry - why does no one make a (real) XL ear tip with 15 mm diameter?

I got me the Zero 2 because of Amir's review and immediately had the same issue again - no perfect sealing, no bass. So I continued to buy ear tip after ear tip until I hit the jackpot with the Divinus Velvet Wide Bore. They are 14 mm as well, but their shape and design is different. This causes a perfect seal for me, combined by the shape (more diameter near the sound output) and a bit more insertion depth.

The Divinus come as pair of three, so I was able to put them on my old IEMs, the Zero 2, and a cheap BT pair that I use during fitness training - they work perfectly everywhere.
The tips made it finally possible to think about Apple's AirPod Pro. I knew their tips will not match my ears, but Divinus has the Velvet Wide Bore also as special AirPod Pro version. Quite expensive, but when they work that won't matter. So I got the AirPod Pro 2nd gen, the Apple tips sucked (as predicted), and the special Velvet - well, nearly worked. Means much better but not as perfect as the normal Divinus.

What I found out: shape and diameter is identical, so that can't be the reason. But putting on the original Velvet with the special adapter that is supplied for AirPod use the seal is perfect. Hmmm, ok, not what I expected, but then I just use the original Velvet with that (now really expensive) adapter, right? Nope. Trying to put the AirPods in their charging case it dawned on me what's going on, and I should have seen that before: they don't fit in anymore. Divinus had to reduce the length a bit for them to fit in, and that causes a bit less insertion depth in my ears.

Ears are very individual, and one reason I can't shove the AirPods Pro more in is that my Tragus is strong, big, and in the way of the AirPod's stem. Realizing this I found a simple solution: rotating the AirPod so the stem points upwards gives me full insertion depth and perfect sealing with the AirPod Velvets (plus I look like an alien now....).

Here is a simple tip to check the sealing. Put your fingers into your ears and hum with closed mouth. Move your fingers until you get perfect sealing. This is easy to notice as the hum sound then comes from within the middle of your head. You must have the same strong and strange sound effect when inserting IEMs and humming. If not seal is bad and you need different tips.
Yes, it can become nerve wrecking, every time I'm thinking of getting a new pair of iems my first thought is about the whole process of best fitting them and finding the best tips, and most of the times i end up with a "I already have many iems satisfying me, why on earth I'd want to go into this again?" and let go.
In the end I think of it as good deterrent at falling into easy consumerism :D
 
I only have the Tangzu Tang Sanchai "wide" ear tips myself (on the original planar Artti T10). One feature is the tip end itself is formed more tapered than others and made of extremely soft silicone. I find that tip end conforms better inside my ear canals without exerting side pressure in the ear canal. As such I wear them without discomfort on 2 - 3 mile walks and arriving back home have no urge to get them off. I guess this is another example of trying and deciding for oneself what's best.

Here they are on my iem flanked on both sides by some iems' stock ear tips and a grey after market brand ear tip.

View attachment 419233
What are the tips in the pictures? Tangzu Sanchai is the 3rd from the top, I assume. The bottom one looks like Dunu if I'm not mistaken. But the second from top, I have no idea what they are.
My biggest concern is comfort then the sound since my Galileo need EQ anyway and up to now I tried Feaulle H570 Latex wide bores. Very comfy, sticky, very clean sounding with nice mid and treble boost which make the soundstage open up tremendously, however there's a bit too much bass loss with them, as with most of wide bore tips. I have also Fiio HS20, wide bore but didn't enjoy their signature on Galileo and I moved them to Galaxy Pro. They made Galileo a bit too shouty and unnatural, comfort is OK. Eventually I will look for another set of IEMs, but I'm interested in the new META tuning rather than Harman 2019 IEM. I know Crinacle has 3 projects on the go to be released. Hopefully he will manage good sounding product that might fit my ears.
 
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What are the tips in the pictures?
From the bottom up: a Dunu, what probably came with the aT10, the textured is Tangzu and uppermost some random iem tip. My intention was illustrating the choice of the edge that goes deepest into the ear.

IMG_2521.jpeg
 
Don’t know if you got the answer on the science, but AES and ENT medical journals have thousands of articles, on best way to get sound in the ear canal from an electronic device (hearing aids). It’s a narrower band of audio than music reproduction, but I can almost guarantee you that the science from hearing aids has carried over, specifically on tips and how much “air” (ambient)
to pass through for the best reproduction.

They are testing, blind, the ability to hear specific frequencies using different tips. They have tons and tons of money for research related to hearing aids compared to IEMs.

@Sean Olive has written about this on his Facebook posts I believe.
 
As this seems to be a meeting place for people with great ears, large ear canals and fit issues with L tips I feel invited to tell my experience. I have large ear canals plus big ears that (as I found out very late) require a bit more insert depth than standard. I never was a friend of IEMs because of my sealing issues, matching tips were never provided. Until years ago a friend recommended a very expensive IEM that came with a set of Comfy ear tips, where the Large one finally was able to close my ear canal - following some happy years until the foam broke.

Those supplied Comfy Large had an outer diameter of 14.5 mm, while the ones available in any store are 14 mm. Following was some time where I started to hate the whole ear tip industry - why does no one make a (real) XL ear tip with 15 mm diameter?

I got me the Zero 2 because of Amir's review and immediately had the same issue again - no perfect sealing, no bass. So I continued to buy ear tip after ear tip until I hit the jackpot with the Divinus Velvet Wide Bore. They are 14 mm as well, but their shape and design is different. This causes a perfect seal for me, combined by the shape (more diameter near the sound output) and a bit more insertion depth.

The Divinus come as pair of three, so I was able to put them on my old IEMs, the Zero 2, and a cheap BT pair that I use during fitness training - they work perfectly everywhere.
The tips made it finally possible to think about Apple's AirPod Pro. I knew their tips will not match my ears, but Divinus has the Velvet Wide Bore also as special AirPod Pro version. Quite expensive, but when they work that won't matter. So I got the AirPod Pro 2nd gen, the Apple tips sucked (as predicted), and the special Velvet - well, nearly worked. Means much better but not as perfect as the normal Divinus.

What I found out: shape and diameter is identical, so that can't be the reason. But putting on the original Velvet with the special adapter that is supplied for AirPod use the seal is perfect. Hmmm, ok, not what I expected, but then I just use the original Velvet with that (now really expensive) adapter, right? Nope. Trying to put the AirPods in their charging case it dawned on me what's going on, and I should have seen that before: they don't fit in anymore. Divinus had to reduce the length a bit for them to fit in, and that causes a bit less insertion depth in my ears.

Ears are very individual, and one reason I can't shove the AirPods Pro more in is that my Tragus is strong, big, and in the way of the AirPod's stem. Realizing this I found a simple solution: rotating the AirPod so the stem points upwards gives me full insertion depth and perfect sealing with the AirPod Velvets (plus I look like an alien now....).

Here is a simple tip to check the sealing. Put your fingers into your ears and hum with closed mouth. Move your fingers until you perfectly close the ear canal. This is easy to notice as the hum sound then comes from within the middle of your head. You must have the same strong and strange sound effect when inserting IEMs and humming with closed mouth. If not seal is bad and you need different tips.
I just tried your simple tip, got weird looks from my wife, but notifed something else. The hum sound got stronger with my fingers also touching my cheekbone, rather then just closing my ears. That’s bone conduction I guess ?

Also not hearing my wife and children talking, points to a good fit.
 
Hi everyone,

I'm using the Letshuoer S12 with FiiO HS20 eartips.
My ear canals are quite narrow, and for my right ear in particular, I need the very soft and thin tips in size "S". With these, the comfort is good enough for me.

Unfortunately, the tips slide off the IEM nozzle very easily, and I end up losing them after just a few weeks.

I've tried the Spinfit CP100, and while they have a much better grip on the nozzle, the material is too stiff inside my ear and causes uncomfortable pressure.

Could anyone recommend some other eartips I should check out? I'm looking for something that combines the softness of the FiiO HS20 with the secure nozzle grip of the Spinfits.
Thanks!
 
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