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I need advice on choosing a phono preamp.

tramp201

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I have never used a vinyl playback system before, and I just purchased my first turntable. I would like to hear everyone's advice on selecting a phono preamp.

Here is my budget phono preamp shortlist:

1、hegel V10 US $1300
1700126373834.png

2、Teac PE-505 US $1080
teac_pe_505.png

3、Schiit Skoll US $399
skoll front 1920.jpg


Here is my current equipment:
Thorens TD1500 - It has a fully balanced output and comes with a Ortofon 2M Bronze MM cartridge.
20210801_Thorens TD1500 NB_46_72.jpg


In the future, I will purchase the following vinyl record cartridges to experience different styles.

Grado Platinum3 MI唱头
Body: Australian Jarrah Wood
Cantileaver: Aluminum / Elliptical Diamond
Output:
High 4.0mV @5 CMV (45)
Low 1.0mV @5 CMV (45)
Inductance:
High Output 55mH
Low Output 6mH
Resistance:
High Output 660 ohms
Low Output 70 ohms
Input Load: 10k-47k ohms
Cartridge Weight: 9 grams
Tracking Force: 1.6-1.9 grams
Compliance 20μm/mN
Channel Separation: Average 30db - 10-30k Hz
Controlled Frequency Response: 10-60 KHz
Non-Sensative to Capacitive Load

AT33PTG/II MC唱头
Type: MC type
Frequency response: 15 to 50,000Hz
Output voltage: 0.3mV (1kHz, 3.54cm/sec)
Channel separation: 30dB (1kHz)
Output balance: 0.5dB (1kHz)
Tracking force: 1.8 to 2.2g (2.0g standard)
Coil impedance: 10Ω (1kHz)
DC resistance: 10Ω
Load impedance: 100Ω or higher (when connected to a head amp)
Coil inductance: 22μH (1kHz)
Static compliance: 40×10-6cm/dyne
Dynamic compliance: 10×10-6cm/dyne (100Hz)
Stylus: Solid micro-linear stylus
Cantilever: Solid boron taper
Vertical tracking angle: 23°
Dimensions: H16×W16.6×D26.5mm
Weight: 6.9g

Ortofon MC Quintet Blue MC唱头
Output voltage at 1 kHz 5 cm/sec - 0.5 mV
Channel balance - < 1.5 dB
Channel separation at 1 kHz - > 21 dB
Channel separation at 15 kHz - > 14 dB
Frequency response 20-20.000 Hz - +/-2.5 dB
Tracking ability at 315 Hz at recommended tracking force *) - 70 μm
Compliance, dynamic, lateral - 15 μm/mN
Stylus type - Nude Elliptical
Stylus tip radius - r/R 8/18 μm
Tracking force range - 2.1-2.5 g (21-25 mN)
Tracking force recommended - 2.3 g (23 mN)
Tracking angle - 20º
Internal impedance, DC resistance - 7 Ohm
Recommended load impedance - >20 Ohm
Cartridge body material - ABS/Aluminium
Coil wire material - Pure 4-nines silver
Cartridge colour - Blue
Cartridge weight - 9 g
 

Smitty2k1

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If it were my money I'd go with the Schitt, but I think we have different pricepoints. I've actually had my eye on the Schitt Mani2 as a much less expensive option for my Technics 1200.
 

DVDdoug

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I would like to hear everyone's advice on selecting a phono preamp.
There are reviews (with measurements) here. (You can sort by "Device Type.)

Thorens TD1500 - It has a fully balanced output
I think the advantages to balanced connections for a phono cartridge are "mostly theoretical". It couldn't hurt, but you will need a preamp with balanced inputs to take advantage of it.

I have never used a vinyl playback system before, and I just purchased my first turntable.
Why start now, 40 years after the CD was introduced? My $100 CD/DVD/Blu-Ray player sounds better than ANYTHING analog.

I grew-up with vinyl and the "snap", "crackle" and "pop" always annoyed me even though it was the best thing we had, and it didn't seem to bother most people. It was especially annoying when it was my record and I knew exactly when that nasty "click" was coming... I'd be waiting for the click instead of enjoying the music.
 

LTig

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I have never used a vinyl playback system before, and I just purchased my first turntable. I would like to hear everyone's advice on selecting a phono preamp.

Here is my budget phono preamp shortlist:

1、hegel V10 US $1300
2、Teac PE-505 US $1080
3、Schiit Skoll US $399


Here is my current equipment:
Ortofon 2M Bronze MM cartridge.

In the future, I will purchase the following vinyl record cartridges to experience different styles.

Grado Platinum3 MI唱头
Output:
High 4.0mV @5 CMV (45)
Low 1.0mV @5 CMV (45)
Input Load: 10k-47k ohms

AT33PTG/II MC唱头
Output voltage: 0.3mV (1kHz, 3.54cm/sec)
Load impedance: 100Ω or higher (when connected to a head amp)
Coil inductance: 22μH (1kHz)

Ortofon MC Quintet Blue MC唱头
Output voltage at 1 kHz 5 cm/sec - 0.5 mV
Recommended load impedance - >20 Ohm

Cambridge Audio Duo Phono. One of the best preamps measured here. Works perfect with my AT33PTG/II and should do the same with the others you plan to get.

EDIT: Looking at what you have (Ortofon 2M Bronze, MM, elliptic needle cut) you should get the AT33PTG/II first (MC, line needle cut) first as this may show the biggest difference in sound quality, in a positive way.
 
Last edited:

maty

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Research them on your own and you will see that they are excellent options in their price range. The Musical Fidelity is a definitive phono.

< 400€
Cambridge Audio Duo Phono

$1000
Avid Pellar

2000€
Musical Fidelity M6x Vinyl

Multitest phono pre-amps – Part 1 – Gold Note – Graham Slee – AVID – MOON




Multitest phono pre-amps – Part 2 – MoFi – Cambridge – Musical Fidelity – ProJect – Primare



*** Duelo previos de fono: Musical M6x Vinyl Vs Electrocompaniet ECP2 MKII (Spanish subs -> to English) ***

 
Last edited:

digitalfrost

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2、Teac PE-505 US $1080
View attachment 326564
Damn that's sexy. I would love to see this measured somewhere. If it performs as good as it looks that is a nobrainer.

I also run the AT33PTG/II, I'm happy with this pre https://hifiakademie.de/?id=6.1

If you want to play with cartridges, I would not buy anything that you cannot adjust the cartridge loading. They all do that. We know things don't have to be expensive to be good.

Maybe also an option: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...easurements-of-musical-fidelity-mx-vynl.7753/
 

DSJR

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Forgive me here - the OP has a perfectly good if expensive turntable system with one of the best and reasonably honest (in transcription terms) cartridges out there.

Would Thorens REALLY put a shite phono stage in their deck?

I use records as a tool to get the MUSIC off my records these days while acknowledging by own main deck is a shrunk version sonically of what the top player systems can do. All the 'upgrades' the OP is considering will polish the turd really and gains in one area will almost certainly lead to losses elsewhere.

I LOVE the 2M Bronze for all my sins and if you must twat around with different MC cartridges, try the OC9 with Shibata tip. There's a link somewhere where the OC9 models were compared and the upload was good enou8gh to reproduce the differences, the elliptical a nice all rounder, the ML crisssssp and the top Shibata one delightfully open and 'clean' without the added sharpness.. Not sure the AT33PTG variants are as neutral, but it could be a couple of dB down from neutral in the top rather than a couple of dB up in other models...

On the other hand, I do not like the current Grado's, finding them rather dull and way off what is actually in the grooves. Ortofon Mc's aren't known to me these days, but they do have the ability as engineers to design a tonal balance in various high end models to suit the audiophile mentality of the era and that IS a talent..

I swear I'm not trying to be confrontational here, but the messing around of high end vinyl systems really is a hiding to nothing as suggested above. Due to the severe limitations in the vinyl product itself even before the playback system,
 

rdenney

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I'm sorta thinking that, based solely on the testing I've seen here and elsewhere, the Schiit Mani 2 is tough to beat in any useful way. It's $149. The thing it has that cheaper ones (that also test well) don't is adjustable cartridge loading. If you are going to play with cartridges, adjustable loading is an important feature.

My own phono section is built into my B&K MC-101 preamp. It allows very detailed loading adjustments by providing a socket for resistors and capacitors on the board. That's not as convenient as the Schiit Mani 2, but I don't much play with cartridges.

As to cartridges, I suspect that few could improve on a Shure V15 if evaluating them blindly. I'm using an Audio Technica AT-440MLb, which really needs lower than the usual 47K input resistance and capacitive loading no greater than 200 pF (including the cables and tonearm wiring, which will add more than we think, but the 47 pF setting on the Schiit should get you there). With the Schiit, I'd probably use a custom EQ setting in my system. But I've never really bought into the mystique of moving-coil cartridges. But I have bought into the use of microline-type styluses for managing damaged LPs.

Rick "thinking proper setup trumps brand and price tag once basic competence is demonstrated" Denney
 

zonk

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Pro-ject Phono Box RS - balanced phono preamp

https://www.project-audio.com/en/product/phono-box-rs/

Features
  • MM & MC capable
  • True dual mono design
  • Balanced XLR & unbalanced RCA In & Outputs
  • Fully passive RIAA & DECCA equalisation
  • Unique continously variable input impedance loading, matches every cartridge (adjustment even while playing)
  • RCA & XLR In & Out
 
Last edited:

levimax

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Most of the cartridge loading adaption can be made with these plugs + resistors capacitors, in case your RIAA cannot not give correct load ( which is the case in 90% of the MM load)
View attachment 326677

View attachment 326678
Or buy A finished set from
here
One thing to be aware of if using cheap "plugs" to adjust loading. I was playing around with doing this with cheap plugs like this and nothing was working as expected. I finally checked the capacitance of the "plug" and it was adding 400 pF! This was twice was much as the cables had and was totally throwing everything off. If you are going to use these plugs make sure you check their capacitance.... they vary by many hundreds of pF with no obvious rhyme or reason.
 

mike70

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I bet for the schiit ... a more expensive preamp is only jewelry in my opinion.
I have the 33PTG/II cartridge and it's fantastic.
 
OP
T

tramp201

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There are reviews (with measurements) here. (You can sort by "Device Type.)


I think the advantages to balanced connections for a phono cartridge are "mostly theoretical". It couldn't hurt, but you will need a preamp with balanced inputs to take advantage of it.


Why start now, 40 years after the CD was introduced? My $100 CD/DVD/Blu-Ray player sounds better than ANYTHING analog.

I grew-up with vinyl and the "snap", "crackle" and "pop" always annoyed me even though it was the best thing we had, and it didn't seem to bother most people. It was especially annoying when it was my record and I knew exactly when that nasty "click" was coming... I'd be waiting for the click instead of enjoying the music.
I have a Cambridge EVO750 that provides Balanced XLR input and MM phono input.
 
OP
T

tramp201

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Cambridge Audio Duo Phono. One of the best preamps measured here. Works perfect with my AT33PTG/II and should do the same with the others you plan to get.

EDIT: Looking at what you have (Ortofon 2M Bronze, MM, elliptic needle cut) you should get the AT33PTG/II first (MC, line needle cut) first as this may show the biggest difference in sound quality, in a positive way.
My Cambridge EVO150 has an MM phono input, and I am currently using it. However, it does not support MC cartridges. I am not sure if the quality of the built-in MM phono in the EVO150 is different from the Cambridge Audio Duo Phono or if it is the same Solo Phono installed inside the EVO150.
 
OP
T

tramp201

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Research them on your own and you will see that they are excellent options in their price range. The Musical Fidelity is a definitive phono.

< 400€
Cambridge Audio Duo Phono

$1000
Avid Pellar

2000€
Musical Fidelity M6x Vinyl

Multitest phono pre-amps – Part 1 – Gold Note – Graham Slee – AVID – MOON




Multitest phono pre-amps – Part 2 – MoFi – Cambridge – Musical Fidelity – ProJect – Primare



*** Duelo previos de fono: Musical M6x Vinyl Vs Electrocompaniet ECP2 MKII (Spanish subs -> to English) ***

Thank you for your comprehensive advice. I will look into your suggestions.
 
OP
T

tramp201

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请原谅我在这里-OP有一个完美的好,如果昂贵的转盘系统与一个最好的和合理的诚实(在转录方面)墨盒在那里。


托伦斯真的会在他们的甲板上放一个该死的唱机舞台吗?


我使用记录作为一种工具,让音乐从我的记录这些天,同时承认自己的主甲板是一个缩小版本的顶级球员系统可以做什么声音。OP正在考虑的所有“升级”都将真正抛光粪便,在一个领域的收益几乎肯定会导致其他地方的损失。


我爱2米青铜为我所有的罪孽,如果你必须twat周围与不同的MC墨盒,尝试OC9与柴田提示。有一个链接的地方,OC9模型进行了比较,上传是很好的,足以重现的差异,椭圆一个很好的所有圆,ML crisssssp和顶部柴田一个愉快的开放和'干净'没有增加的锐度。不确定的AT33PTG变种是中性的,但它可能是一对夫妇的分贝下降,从中性的顶部,而不是一对夫妇的分贝上升,在其他型号。


另一方面,我不喜欢目前的格拉多的,发现他们相当沉闷和远离什么是实际上在凹槽。Ortofon Mc的不知道我这些天,但他们确实有能力作为工程师设计一个色调平衡在各种高端型号,以适应时代的音响发烧友的心态,这是一个人才。


我发誓我不是想在这里对抗,但混乱的高端乙烯基系统真的是一个隐藏到没有如上所述。由于乙烯基产品本身的严重限制,甚至在播放系统之前,

是的,我也怀疑投资太多的唱机阶段和墨盒没有得到比例回报。
 
OP
T

tramp201

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I'm sorta thinking that, based solely on the testing I've seen here and elsewhere, the Schiit Mani 2 is tough to beat in any useful way. It's $149. The thing it has that cheaper ones (that also test well) don't is adjustable cartridge loading. If you are going to play with cartridges, adjustable loading is an important feature.

My own phono section is built into my B&K MC-101 preamp. It allows very detailed loading adjustments by providing a socket for resistors and capacitors on the board. That's not as convenient as the Schiit Mani 2, but I don't much play with cartridges.

As to cartridges, I suspect that few could improve on a Shure V15 if evaluating them blindly. I'm using an Audio Technica AT-440MLb, which really needs lower than the usual 47K input resistance and capacitive loading no greater than 200 pF (including the cables and tonearm wiring, which will add more than we think, but the 47 pF setting on the Schiit should get you there). With the Schiit, I'd probably use a custom EQ setting in my system. But I've never really bought into the mystique of moving-coil cartridges. But I have bought into the use of microline-type styluses for managing damaged LPs.

Rick "thinking proper setup trumps brand and price tag once basic competence is demonstrated" Denney
Legendary Shure V15 is also a cartridge I'm considering. I will consider purchasing a second-hand Shure V15 and pairing it with a Jico SAS replacement stylus.
 
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