Hypex Nilai500DIY Amplifier Review

[OldManMatt]

Am I losing a lot of performance in high gain?

The more I read, the more I'm leaning towards the RME. I looked up some specs and it has plenty of voltage for optimal performance. I don't like the idea of having my mono's in high gain. Seems like everyone with the RME pairing are getting great results and are using low/medium gain. I really want the Eversolo DMP A8 as my setup, but it's the voltage aspect that hangs me up. Maybe these old ears are the problem too!

I appreciate such an awesome forum.

If the Eversolo is something that interests you I think it's worth an audition. From glancing at its reported specs it should have no issues powering the mono blocks.
With the 3 gain levels on the Nilai I don't think any new products would have any issues pushing the Nilai's and mainstream speaker brands to loud volumes.

 

[Julf]

I'm thinking 6db more of clean loudness, at least with my experience with using XLR over RCA,

Ah, so just 6 dB more gain - sure, if more gain is what you want, and you already use the highest gain setting, otherwise just increase gain in the Nilai. Really not related to XLR vs RCA (can we please talk about balanced vs unbalanced rather than the connector types) but to the implementation of the output stage of your source.

 

[antho625]

Ah, so just 6 dB more gain - sure, if more gain is what you want, and you already use the highest gain setting, otherwise just increase gain in the Nilai. Really not related to XLR vs RCA (can we please talk about balanced vs unbalanced rather than the connector types) but to the implementation of the output stage of your source.

Ah, so just 6 dB more gain - sure, if more gain is what you want, and you already use the highest gain setting, otherwise just increase gain in the Nilai. Really not related to XLR vs RCA (can we please talk about balanced vs unbalanced rather than the connector types) but to the implementation of the output stage of your source.

Appreciate the feedback. I'm hoping to get an output stage of something North of 5 or 6 volts. I know the Eversolo A8 is only 4.2, but I may get a preamp (Gustard p26) to drive the Nilais.

 

[maethor]

Hello dear ASR community.

I would like to share with you my feedback from demoing the Hypex Niali (two monoblocks in single case) in terms of the sound quality. I am not having some extraordinary hearing capabilities, but I like to have fun listening to music... But to keep that post shorter, I go straight to the description of my experience.

I was listening on speakers in my home on Spendor D9.2 connected to an old Denon AVR X3300W used in Direct mode.

First listening ( Denon -> Nilai -> Spendor) - the sound quality has improved in terms of detail and sound stage, instruments were separated, and the speakers sounded much more powerful, however, the sound became less alive, boring, and hm.. metallic. The music lost its magic and fun, it was noticeable from the first song...

Second listening ( Topping DX3Pro+ > Nilai -> Spendor) - I have used Topping as a DAC and preamp to check if old DAC in Denon could be the reason of that metallic sound. The music in this configuration was better in any terms, with even more details, better sound stage and more hm 3dimentional, but still no fun, no magic, still the metallic sound.

Third listening ( Denon -> Spendor) - back to the roots, as expected, the sound became weaker, but not so much as I thought it would be, less detailed, but the magic has come back! My favorite songs came back to life, they were rhythmic, and alive, and it was fun to listen to them again.

Next day, I have packed the Nilai and went to a local hifi store where they prepared a listening room for me with Spendor D9 to compare my amp with their flagships Accuphase E-800 (Class A) and Accuphase E-5000 (Class AB).

First listening Accuphase E-5000 - the music was extremely good, and detailed, bass was massive and went much lower than at home, it was fun to listen the music, and it was alive.

Second listening Accuphase E-800 - music was also very good, but class A was too weak for this size of speakers, and it was heard...

Third listening Nilai - the power came back again, very detailed, bass was there but was not able to go as low as Accuphase E-5000 but it was much better sound as E-800, and again... music lost magic and became metallic. It surprised me because I did not tell the experts from the hifi store what to expect from this amp, and after the listening I asked them for feedback before I said mine. They have agreed that the sound was very good, sound stage wide (but less wide than E-5000), and unfortunately... metallic and fatiguing.

4th listening Accuphase E-5000 - to check the sound signature of this metallic touch, we have returned to listening to the first amp. It was clear from the first song, that magic was there, the song was joyful and it was a pleasure to listen to it, the bass was very low.

After that two intensive days I have decided to return Nilai and start looking for an amp which would give my similar experience to Accuphase.

Conclusion
Hypex Nilai is a great amp, very powerful, sound is high quality, but it lacks filters or something else which in the end became artificial, metallic and lifeless.

I did not want to criticize anyone or the class d amp in general, but maybe there is a measurement which could find that problem and test it - from the scientific angle - during ASR review process.

To be honest, I have not heard of the competition. Recently I contacted Tibor from ApollonAudio and he recommended Purifi with Sparkos SS2590 op amps which he described as a more musical and warm sound. Maybe in near future I will have the opportunity to do so, but for now, I need to allocate my audio budget to something different.

I hope that it will help someone and show my thoughts about Class D amp from different angle.

 

[antcollinet]

Hello dear ASR community.

I would like to share with you my feedback from demoing the Hypex Niali (two monoblocks in single case) in terms of the sound quality. I am not having some extraordinary hearing capabilities, but I like to have fun listening to music... But to keep that post short, I go straight to the description of my experience.

etc....

Hi
I see you are fairly new here, welcome to the site.

However (and in order to help you get up to speed with what we are about here), this site does not really value this sort of uncontrolled listening report, particularly for electronics. We are aware that:

1 - what you hear is heavily influenced by your speakers and room.
2 - Differences between well designed electronics are so small to be largely or completely inaudible - especially when dominated by speaker/room effects.
3 - Our hearing is subject to cognitive bias in sighted listening - in which our subconscious brain can alter what we hear based on many other factors - including what we know we are listening to.

Because of these things, we recognise that what is heard in sighted listening tests is really only of value to the person listening - and almost certainly won't apply to anyone else.

This is why there is a heavy focus on measurements here. Measurement instruments are much more sensitive than our ears, and are consistent and repeatable - not impacted by the weirdnesses imposed by our subconscious.

We DO value listening tests which are controlled (level matched, blind and statistically relevant) - which are the only way listening tests can provide factual confirmation of differences heard between electronic components.

For further information on these topics see Amir's videos:

And

 

[maethor]

Hi
I see you are fairly new here, welcome to the site.

However, this site does not really value this sort of uncontrolled listening report, particularly for electronics. We are aware that:

1 - what you hear is heavily influenced by your speakers and room.
2 - Differences between electronics are so small to be largely or completely inaudible - especially when dominated by speaker/room effects.
3 - Our hearing is subject to cognitive bias in sighted listening - in which our subconscious brain can alter what we hear based on many other factors - including what we know we are listening to.

Because of these things, we recognise that what is heard in sighted listening tests is really only of value to the person listening - and almost certainly won't apply to anyone else.

This is why there is a heavy focus on measurements here. Measurement instruments are much more sensitive than our ears, and are consistent and repeatable - not impacted by the weirdnesses imposed by our subconscious.

We DO value listening tests which are controlled (level matched, blind and statistically relevant) - which are the only way listening tests can provide factual confirmation of differences heard between electronic components.

For further information on these topics see Amir's videos:

And

Thank you for the greetings.

I have spent years on your forum and I am fully aware how it works here.

What I wanted to achieve is to maybe find something in measurements which could point out my subjective experience for the sake of us all. And maybe that small detail could improve even more future implementations of class D amps or any other...

I would like to ask you all to stay open for such opinins and try to measure it ( I am not an expert in terms of audio so I am not sure how to even start but maybe you will know).

 

[antcollinet]

What I wanted to achieve is to maybe find something in measurements which could point out my subjective experience

Most likely is frequency response**, if anything. But before you go searching measurements for what you heard, you really first need to confirm that what you heard was actually in the sound, and not being created by your subconscious brain. Otherwise you might just be chasing rainbows.

That is what blind testing is for.


** EDIT : or the most important variable to control for - lack of level matching. I note the Accuphase also has loudness compensation and tone controls - were these active, or bypassed?

 

[Vhond]

Hello dear ASR community.

I would like to share with you my feedback from demoing the Hypex Niali (two monoblocks in single case) in terms of the sound quality. I am not having some extraordinary hearing capabilities, but I like to have fun listening to music... But to keep that post shorter, I go straight to the description of my experience.

I was listening on speakers in my home on Spendor D9.2 connected to an old Denon AVR X3300W used in Direct mode.

First listening ( Denon -> Nilai -> Spendor) - the sound quality has improved in terms of detail and sound stage, instruments were separated, and the speakers sounded much more powerful, however, the sound became less alive, boring, and hm.. metallic. The music lost its magic and fun, it was noticeable from the first song...

Second listening ( Topping DX3Pro+ > Nilai -> Spendor) - I have used Topping as a DAC and preamp to check if old DAC in Denon could be the reason of that metallic sound. The music in this configuration was better in any terms, with even more details, better sound stage and more hm 3dimentional, but still no fun, no magic, still the metallic sound.

Third listening ( Denon -> Spendor) - back to the roots, as expected, the sound became weaker, but not so much as I thought it would be, less detailed, but the magic has come back! My favorite songs came back to life, they were rhythmic, and alive, and it was fun to listen to them again.

Next day, I have packed the Nilai and went to a local hifi store where they prepared a listening room for me with Spendor D9 to compare my amp with their flagships Accuphase E-800 (Class A) and Accuphase E-5000 (Class AB).

First listening Accuphase E-5000 - the music was extremely good, and detailed, bass was massive and went much lower than at home, it was fun to listen the music, and it was alive.

Second listening Accuphase E-800 - music was also very good, but class A was too weak for this size of speakers, and it was heard...

Third listening Nilai - the power came back again, very detailed, bass was there but was not able to go as low as Accuphase E-5000 but it was much better sound as E-800, and again... music lost magic and became metallic. It surprised me because I did not tell the experts from the hifi store what to expect from this amp, and after the listening I asked them for feedback before I said mine. They have agreed that the sound was very good, sound stage wide (but less wide than E-5000), and unfortunately... metallic and fatiguing.

4th listening Accuphase E-5000 - to check the sound signature of this metallic touch, we have returned to listening to the first amp. It was clear from the first song, that magic was there, the song was joyful and it was a pleasure to listen to it, the bass was very low.

After that two intensive days I have decided to return Nilai and start looking for an amp which would give my similar experience to Accuphase.

Conclusion
Hypex Nilai is a great amp, very powerful, sound is high quality, but it lacks filters or something else which in the end became artificial, metallic and lifeless.

I did not want to criticize anyone or the class d amp in general, but maybe there is a measurement which could find that problem and test it - from the scientific angle - during ASR review process.

To be honest, I have not heard of the competition. Recently I contacted Tibor from ApollonAudio and he recommended Purifi with Sparkos SS2590 op amps which he described as a more musical and warm sound. Maybe in near future I will have the opportunity to do so, but for now, I need to allocate my audio budget to something different.

I hope that it will help someone and show my thoughts about Class D amp from different angle.

Which gain setting did you use on the Nilai?

 

[maethor]

Most likely is frequency response, if anything. But before you go searching measurements for what you heard, you really first need to confirm that what you heard was actually in the sound, and not being created by your subconscious brain. Otherwise you might just be chasing rainbows.

That is what blind testing is for.

Which gain setting did you use on the Nilai?

It was set to low gain 21.75db

 

[maethor]

Most likely is frequency response, if anything. But before you go searching measurements for what you heard, you really first need to confirm that what you heard was actually in the sound, and not being created by your subconscious brain. Otherwise you might just be chasing rainbows.

That is what blind testing is for.

If it is so simple then I apologize for my post. I thought that if many people of different age and different hifi experiences (my wife was also testing at home all 3 configurations - for her there were blackboxes and her feedback was the same as mine) could hear the same thing without even knowing what they are listening to could mean something..

Anyway, I am sorry again. If you want, my posts can be deleted to clean up the topic.

 

[Julf]

If it is so simple then I apologize for my post. I thought that if many people of different age and different hifi experiences (my wife was also testing at home all 3 configurations - for her there were blackboxes and her feedback was the same as mine) could hear the same thing without even knowing what they are listening to could mean something..

To her, the gear might have been black boxes, but hopefully you aren't a black box to her - that is why single blind is not good enough. People are very good at reading other people and their expectations, without even being aware of it.

 

[antcollinet]

If it is so simple then I apologize for my post. I thought that if many people of different age and different hifi experiences (my wife was also testing at home all 3 configurations - for her there were blackboxes and her feedback was the same as mine) could hear the same thing without even knowing what they are listening to could mean something..

Anyway, I am sorry again. If you want, my posts can be deleted to clean up the topic.

No need to apologise, and no need to delete your posts.

We are all here to learn. (Ive added an edit to my previous reply by the way)

 

[maethor]

Most likely is frequency response**, if anything. But before you go searching measurements for what you heard, you really first need to confirm that what you heard was actually in the sound, and not being created by your subconscious brain. Otherwise you might just be chasing rainbows.

That is what blind testing is for.


** EDIT : or the most important variable to control for - lack of level matching. I note the Accuphase also has loudness compensation and tone controls - were these active, or bypassed?

Tone controls were set to default (unfortunately I do not know if by default they ment bypassed) I have asked question only about the settings.

Level matching was not present, but I asked to change it after 4th listening (in fact after 4th listening there were some quick switching with different volume - but the same metallic sound taste was still present regardless of which amp was louder and which quieter).

 

[OldManMatt]

I have no issues with a little subjective sharing but my 1st thoughts were What is wrong with that amplifier? I'm not sure what "metallic sounding" is but I would characterize the Nilai as "sounding" like whatever is upstream of it.

If there is indeed nothing wrong with it I will say that's it's incredibly how we all hear things differently. The model you have does not have opamps correct? I really wish I could listen to it. Thanks for sharing

 

[ScofieldKid]

Tone controls were set to default (unfortunately I do not know if by default they ment bypassed) I have asked question only about the settings.

Level matching was not present, but I asked to change it after 4th listening (in fact after 4th listening there were some quick switching with different volume - but the same metallic sound taste was still present regardless of which amp was louder and which quieter).

Any chance you can get your speaker sales people to come over and check Room EQ?

 

[maethor]

Any chance you can get your speaker sales people to come over and check Room EQ?

At hifi store they have an extremely well build listening room, I have asked them about it and they have some third party company which is strictly focused on Room Treatments.

Regarding our living room analysis, I have used Denon Audyssey MultEQ app to analyze room and fix it before testing — mentioned in my post — amp. I am not sure how good is Audyssey, but below you can see the measurements from the app.

Left (green-before / red-after correction)

Right

I can also add that two years ago I had the opportunity to schedule a demo of Genelec in our home and although I have never heard so many details in songs, so powerful bass.. the music was just ... be played. There was still no 'magic' in there. After few hours we have ended with a big headache and disapoitment that speakers which are advertised as the best in the world could play such analytical sound.

That day I have understood that this kind of hifi equipment is designed for studios and for work when you need to hear everything in the song and with highest clarity but in the real life more important is that what you hear should give you a joy and fun and goosebumps.

I have the luck that I live in a city where there are live music jazz clubs and there is a great philharmonic in which, in fact one of the musicians is my uncle, so I am quite aware how life music should sound.

And that is my unicorn... I am searching for the equipment which could give me similar experience like life music in my home.

 

[Julf]

After few hours we have ended with a big headache and disapoitment that speakers which are advertised as the best in the world could play such analytical sound.

You say that like it is a bad thing.

That day I have understood that this kind of hifi equipment is designed for studios and for work when you need to hear everything in the song and with highest clarity but in the real life more important is that what you hear should give you a joy and fun and goosebumps.

The ideal of HiFi ("High Fidelity") is accurate reproduction of the recorded signal. Sure, some people want salt and ketchup added to their food even in a michelin-star restaurant.

And that is my unicorn... I am searching for the equipment which could give me similar experience like life music in my home.

Better give up. You can't. Modern recordings are art pieces in themselves, they don't even attempt to recreate the live sound (which would require recreating the acoustics of the venue, among other things - not doable with 2 channels).

 

[Mnyb]

So called "analytical sound" is mostly a function of frequency response as there is no one size fit all remedy that can be built into a pair of speakers , we have tone controls and EQ for this ? Oh i forgot high end hifi have removed those , keeping everyone on the forever upgrade path...

 

[maethor]

So called "analytical sound" is mostly a function of frequency response as there is no one size fit all remedy that can be built into a pair of speakers , we have tone controls and EQ for this ? Oh i forgot high end hifi have removed those , keeping everyone on the forever upgrade path...

That is so true, but anyway..

Maybe one day, the companies will grow up to acknowledge it and hear out people voice... Is the natural sound reproduction the meaning of their job?

I also agree that 2 speakers cannot reproduce the sound of the whole orchestra, but is it a reason why these Atmos and other high-tech systems were created? I think it was forgotten and replaced with the V curve reproduction in cinemas, which for most of the people is the only sound they have experienced - so they want to buy booming headphones to have similar sound signature.

Anyway, thank you all for the answers and your comments.

 

[Julf]

Maybe one day, the companies will grow up to acknowledge it and hear out people voice... Is the natural sound reproduction the meaning of their job?

They did. By the 1980's, they had figured out to make pretty much everything but the speakers and turntables audibly transparent, reproducing the original recorded signal accurately. That is when they realized that to stand out from the competition, they needed to create gear with "house sound" or pleasing coloration - because people want ketchup and salt...