Topping B100 Amplifier Review

[EddNog]

Just in case anyone is still interested in a pair of these, I am receiving a pair of brand new replacements from Topping/Apos. I don’t intend to open them (brand new in box completely sealed), so if anyone is interested in them, please free to private message me with a reasonable offer. I much prefer to ship only within the USA.

Moderators, if this post is not acceptable, please feel free to delete it.

-Ed

 

[rageworm]

Just in case anyone is still interested in a pair of these, I am receiving a pair of brand new replacements from Topping/Apos. I don’t intend to open them (brand new in box completely sealed), so if anyone is interested in them, please free to private message me with a reasonable offer. I much prefer to ship only within the USA.

Moderators, if this post is not acceptable, please feel free to delete it.

-Ed

Did it/they die again???

 

[EddNog]

Did it/they die again???

This time I believe some would argue that it was user error. I went to change the LED color on my Geshelli JNOG3 DAC by pressing the power button while it was playing music and it sent a full voltage momentary spike signal to the amps which killed them both. Lesson learned, simply never ever touch or change any setting on the JNOG3 unless the attached amps are turned off.

But yes, this time both amps managed to die. The right one (my remaining original amp) refused to come out of safety mode no matter how long I disconnected power before trying again and the left one (the replacement amp) simply refused to turn on again, not to mention having a burnt smell.

-Ed

 

[rageworm]

This time I believe some would argue that it was user error. I went to change the LED color on my Geshelli JNOG3 DAC by pressing the power button while it was playing music and it sent a full voltage momentary spike signal to the amps which killed them both. Lesson learned, simply never ever touch or change any setting on the JNOG3 unless the attached amps are turned off.

But yes, this time both amps managed to die. The right one (my remaining original amp) refused to come out of safety mode no matter how long I disconnected power before trying again and the left one (the replacement amp) simply refused to turn on again, not to mention having a burnt smell.

-Ed

Oh wow... That's unfortunate. To me it sounds like these aren't the most reliable amps out there for sure. I was thinking to get a pair of these or fosi v3, but sounds like both aren't really reliable options.
Thanks a lot for detailed response.

 

[miero]

I have them connected to MiniDSP Flex balanced and I have been shutting everything down by a common power switch. But only if not playing audio.

@EddNog Does the JNOG3 DAC make a pop sound when shutting down? Were you using the balanced outputs?

 

[EddNog]

Oh wow... That's unfortunate. To me it sounds like these aren't the most reliable amps out there for sure. I was thinking to get a pair of these or fosi v3, but sounds like both aren't really reliable options.
Thanks a lot for detailed response.

Am using a pair of Fosi V3 Monos right now. I have a pair of the Kickstarter units and they've been in basically daily use since I go them last year, initially with my LS50 Metas, then for a while with my dad's Magnepan LRS+, and now they're back with me again driving the LS50 Metas. Not a single reliability issue with them so far.

-Ed

 

[EddNog]

I have them connected to MiniDSP Flex balanced and I have been shutting everything down by a common power switch. But only if not playing audio.

@EddNog Does the JNOG3 DAC make a pop sound when shutting down? Were you using the balanced outputs?

I'm afraid to test messing around with the JNOG3 while amps are powered up again. Yes, I was using XLR connection at the time.

I wasn't powering the DAC on or off. On this DAC, tapping the power button while it is running changes the color of the decorative LED inside the unit. I was just trying to change the color. Lesson learned, do not faff with this while music is playing and the attached amps are on. I now simply refuse to make any adjustments whatsoever to anything on that DAC if the attached amps are on now. Geno from Geshelli recommends inserting a preamp or attenuator between the DAC and the power amps to reduce the peak potential voltage being sent from the DAC to the amps and prevent excessive peak voltages being sent, but unless I use a power amp with a whole lot of gain, this would prevent me from getting volume high enough on certain tracks with high dynamic range/low average volume level due to my room correction unit (DSPeaker Anti-Mode X2D which feeds the DAC digitally) using up quite a bit of the total gain.

-Ed

 

[rageworm]

Am using a pair of Fosi V3 Monos right now. I have a pair of the Kickstarter units and they've been in basically daily use since I go them last year, initially with my LS50 Metas, then for a while with my dad's Magnepan LRS+, and now they're back with me again driving the LS50 Metas. Not a single reliability issue with them so far.

-Ed

Sorry for offtop, do you use any fan/cooling solution for fosi v3 at all?

 

[EddNog]

Sorry for offtop, do you use any fan/cooling solution for fosi v3 at all?

None whatsoever.

-Ed

 

[miero]

On this DAC, tapping the power button while it is running changes the color of the decorative LED inside the unit. I was just trying to change the color. Lesson learned, do not faff with this while music is playing and the attached amps are on.

This seems to be a glitch in the DAC's power button handling, it should not happen. You may want to report this to to Geshelli, they might be able to help. It could probably be fixed with a firmware update.

 

[EddNog]

This seems to be a glitch in the DAC's power button handling, it should not happen. You may want to report this to to Geshelli, they might be able to help. It could probably be fixed with a firmware update.

I did; that is how he and I got on the topic of applying an attenuator of some sort between the DAC and the amps. His implication is that the DAC is simply not designed to go straight to amps, but to be used with a preamp in the middle.

-Ed

 

[DonH56]

I did; that is how he and I got on the topic of applying an attenuator of some sort between the DAC and the amps. His implication is that the DAC is simply not designed to go straight to amps, but to be used with a preamp in the middle.

-Ed

A preamp will affect the volume of whatever glitch the DAC sends, up or down, but the DAC should not do that in the first place. But the amp should not die due to an accidental over-signal input, either.

 

[MAB]

I did; that is how he and I got on the topic of applying an attenuator of some sort between the DAC and the amps. His implication is that the DAC is simply not designed to go straight to amps, but to be used with a preamp in the middle.

-Ed

He is implying his DAC shouldn't be hooked up to any downstream equipment at all. The DAC blew the amps due to faulty operation while switching LED colors. Yes, the amps should have not blown, perhaps blowing your speakers instead. Please understand DAC LED color switching is another solved problem in electronics.

 

[EddNog]

A preamp will affect the volume of whatever glitch the DAC sends, up or down, but the DAC should not do that in the first place. But the amp should not die due to an accidental over-signal input, either.

He is implying his DAC shouldn't be hooked up to any downstream equipment at all. The DAC blew the amps due to faulty operation while switching LED colors. Yes, the amps should have not blown, perhaps blowing your speakers instead. Please understand DAC LED color switching is another solved problem in electronics.

Right, yes, I did make sure he understood I was talking about simply trying to change an LED color, not something sound related, when I raised the issue in general to him. Obviously, it is my own opinion as well that changing such a setting ought not have any sound-related issues. All that said, I like how the thing sounds, and don't wish to change it out. It's just a matter of being cognizant of the fact that I ought not touch it as long as the attached amps are on.

But yes, I also agree, that the safety functionality built into the B100 simply isn't robust enough. To me, this is half the problem here.

-Ed

 

[Old_School_Brad]

Right, yes, I did make sure he understood I was talking about simply trying to change an LED color, not something sound related, when I raised the issue in general to him. Obviously, it is my own opinion as well that changing such a setting ought not have any sound-related issues. All that said, I like how the thing sounds, and don't wish to change it out. It's just a matter of being cognizant of the fact that I ought not touch it as long as the attached amps are on.

But yes, I also agree, that the safety functionality built into the B100 simply isn't robust enough. To me, this is half the problem here.

-Ed

I couldn't tolerate a system that fragile -where simply changing the light colour on my DAC could cause my amplifier to burn out. It seems a bit absurd.

Apologies if this sounds like I'm taking pleasure in misfortune.

 

[mike7877]

Oh wow... That's unfortunate. To me it sounds like these aren't the most reliable amps out there for sure. I was thinking to get a pair of these or fosi v3, but sounds like both aren't really reliable options.
Thanks a lot for detailed response.

Not necessarily - it depends what the voltage applied was. If it was too high and not ESD, that can screw up the op-amp used for input pretty fast. It doesn't matter if it's a Topping or King Charles amp - if the input is an opa1656 and the voltage is too high, if that "too high" is high enough to get a dangerous amount of current to flow (ie. too much to be sunk in this case), the silicon conducting that voltage will soon overheat and start burning away, and any burning away is permanent damage. Most likely going from "just below overheating" to "99.99999% burned away" takes 1-3 seconds, so you have no time to react. And if you burn away half, either output is screwed up and reduced by half right there and then, or it's not, but maximum power is limited to half and the part's liable to break whenever

 

[somebodyelse]

Not necessarily - it depends what the voltage applied was. If it was too high and not ESD, that can screw up the op-amp used for input pretty fast. It doesn't matter if it's a Topping or King Charles amp - if the input is an opa1656 and the voltage is too high, if that "too high" is high enough to get a dangerous amount of current to flow (ie. too much to be sunk in this case), the silicon conducting that voltage will soon overheat and start burning away, and any burning away is permanent damage. Most likely going from "just below overheating" to "99.99999% burned away" takes 1-3 seconds, so you have no time to react. And if you burn away half, either output is screwed up and reduced by half right there and then, or it's not, but maximum power is limited to half and the part's liable to break whenever

That's why amps, audio interfaces etc. built for reliability include components to protect them. It costs a bit more, and doesn't show up in the measurements, so it's an easy thing to skip if you're in a very cost sensitive market.

 

[Sokel]

and doesn't show up in the measurements,

Some do show up giving small hits to the nice numbers.
Perfectly ok in my book,I prefer a bullet proof design than couple of dB better noise,it is way inaudible any way if done right.

 

[deitrick]

Just in case anyone is still interested in a pair of these, I am receiving a pair of brand new replacements from Topping/Apos. I don’t intend to open them (brand new in box completely sealed), so if anyone is interested in them, please free to private message me with a reasonable offer. I much prefer to ship only within the USA.

Moderators, if this post is not acceptable, please feel free to delete it.

-Ed

I've been following your 'saga' for some time now. Very sorry to hear the one died on you. I did end up getting a pair to drive my M106 speakers and on medium gain it was a perfect match. I DID run into a track that would trip circuit protection 100% of the time - Virtual Riot/Simulation. At 61% (out of 100) volume, it would trip both amps momentarily. I ended up sending them back and getting a pair of B200 amps when I upgraded to a pair of F206s. The B100s sound so transparent, it was bliss, but the constant fear of them dying was enough to accept giving them up before my return window ended.

 

[C0mbat]

Most people are suggesting that there are major limitations due to the low power of these things. Every use case is different though so I'm interested to know if my use case would work with them.

I've got the floorstanding Robson Acoustics Burlington MKIII with Viawave Srt-7 ribbon tweeters and Purifi 6.5" woofers. I currently have them paired with two Fosi Audio V3 Mono amps. However, I also use the sub out on the WiiM Ultra to feed anything below 95hz to a Kef KC62 sub and only send above 95hz to the Fosi Audios. I typically listen at volumes between 65-70db and am only 2.2m from the front of the speakers in a small 4m x 3.5m office.

Thoughts on the B100s being able to comfortably handle my use case?