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High End Audio and the Domain of Time

ctrl

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Update: I've done a more detailed and understandable analysis of the time-shifted sounds here.

A title that contains the word "high-end", it can only be hard-hitting enlightenment for an audiophile audience.

So, let's take a closer look at Professor Kunchur's example, which should prove how clearly audible differences in the time domain (and thus in speakers without time aligned drivers) are.

To demonstrate this, he plays a 440Hz burst tone and its overtone (880Hz) in the video - case (A).
Then he plays the same tones again, but with a time delayed 880Hz burst tone - which is supposed to represent the time delay of e.g. woofer and midrange driver, with non time aligned driver - case (C).
1647359390428.png
In the video I can hear the difference very clearly - OMG, I can throw away all my non time aligned speakers - so all of them :eek:

1647363185984.png
Hmm, however, no information at all is given in the video about the signals used. So, I have recorded both sample A and C.
The two stereo audio tracks look like this:
1647363314922.png
Let's take a closer look at the part marked in blue in sound sample (C).

For this purpose I have imported the .wav file as impulse response into Arta. In the green part only the 440Hz fundamental tone can be heard on the recording, the red part then contains both tones 440Hz and 880Hz. The green part produces a "whoop" sound which makes it much easier to distinguish between sample A and C.
1647363909957.png 1647363928862.png
It seems the green part is supposed to represent the period where the 440Hz tone is heard alone.
The period from the start of the "quiet/low" 440Hz signal to the start of both tones is 16ms (left diagram, gate length).

In the example (C) shown in the video, the 880Hz signal starts about 5.5m later than the 440Hz signal. I haven't measured the dimensions of my speaker for a while, but the offset from woofer to midrange is most likely less than 5.5m for all my speakers.

Professor Kunchur should re-record his case study (C), on which his whole argumentation is based, and then choose a realistic delay of perhaps 5-10cm not 550cm.

1647367837739.png
Phew, with this I don't have to throw away all my non time aligned speakers after all.... until the next video.
 
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SIY

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A title that contains the word "high-end", it can only be hard-hitting enlightenment for an audiophile audience.

So, let's take a closer look at Professor Kunchur's example, which should prove how clearly audible differences in the time domain (and thus in speakers without time aligned drivers) are.

To demonstrate this, he plays a 440Hz burst tone and its overtone (880Hz) in the video - case (A).
Then he plays the same tones again, but with a time delayed 880Hz burst tone - which is supposed to represent the time delay of e.g. woofer and midrange driver, with non time aligned driver - case (C).
View attachment 192662
In the video I can hear the difference very clearly - OMG, I can throw away all my non time aligned speakers - so all of them :eek:

View attachment 192669 Hmm, however, no information at all is given in the video about the signals used. So, I have recorded both sample A and C.
The two stereo audio tracks look like this:
View attachment 192670
Let's take a closer look at the part marked in blue in sound sample (C).

For this purpose I have imported the .wav file as impulse response into Arta. In the green part only the 440Hz fundamental tone can be heard on the recording, the red part then contains both tones 440Hz and 880Hz. The green part produces a "whoop" sound which makes it much easier to distinguish between sample A and C.
View attachment 192671 View attachment 192672
It seems the green part is supposed to represent the period where the 440Hz tone is heard alone.
The period from the start of the "quiet/low" 440Hz signal to the start of both tones is 16ms (left diagram, gate length).

In the example (C) shown in the video, the 880Hz signal starts about 5.5m later than the 440Hz signal. I haven't measured the dimensions of my speaker for a while, but the offset from woofer to midrange is most likely less than 5.5m for all my speakers.

Professor Kunchur should re-record his case study (C), on which his whole argumentation is based, and then choose a realistic delay of perhaps 5-10cm not 550cm.

View attachment 192677Phew, with this I don't have to throw away all my non time aligned speakers after all.... until the next video.
So he's graduated from incompetent to dishonest? Huh.
 

Blumlein 88

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No. More like that a 1kHz 0dBFS distortion magnitude spectrum is not very relevant for a DACs "signature". Look at signals around -20dBFS and especially look at the time-domain representation of the error signal -- for any kind of stimulus, not just single steady-state sines.
@KSTR
So no examples of what you are talking about? I have a few DACs that when listening sighted seem to have some identifiable signature and it isn't inconsistent with what others say about them. But when I don't know which is which they disappear. So if you have tests which uncover signatures it would be interesting to see if anything matches my uncontrolled impressions which I could describe prior to doing the tests.
 

audio2design

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No. More like that a 1kHz 0dBFS distortion magnitude spectrum is not very relevant for a DACs "signature". Look at signals around -20dBFS and especially look at the time-domain representation of the error signal -- for any kind of stimulus, not just single steady-state sines.

Why not just look at multitone?
 

Capitol C

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I know Milind personally from his day-job, and I'd like to say that he is an accomplished scientist, with a good mix of inventive experimental techniques and understanding of theory. He is also an honest guy. I've talked with him about the audio work, but never spent enough time on it to form an opinion. If he is wrong, he's fooling himself, which is easy to do in any field of science or engineering. So, here's a suggestion: Reach out to him and see what he has to say. Let's leave echo-chamber forums to the believers in expensive power and digital cables, ok?
 

Blumlein 88

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I know Milind personally from his day-job, and I'd like to say that he is an accomplished scientist, with a good mix of inventive experimental techniques and understanding of theory. He is also an honest guy. I've talked with him about the audio work, but never spent enough time on it to form an opinion. If he is wrong, he's fooling himself, which is easy to do in any field of science or engineering. So, here's a suggestion: Reach out to him and see what he has to say. Let's leave echo-chamber forums to the believers in expensive power and digital cables, ok?
Ask him to sign up here and post. I don't have any access to him.
 

SIY

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I know Milind personally from his day-job, and I'd like to say that he is an accomplished scientist, with a good mix of inventive experimental techniques and understanding of theory.
He very much is. He just stepped in it when he assumed this carried over to areas outside of his competence.

There is nothing here he hasn't heard already, and he has, over the years, refused to address the criticism.
 

Capitol C

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He very much is. He just stepped in it when he assumed this carried over to areas outside of his competence.

There is nothing here he hasn't heard already, and he has, over the years, refused to address the criticism.
That is unfortunate, and I'm sad to hear it.
 

voodooless

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Sounds like this guy has a split personality :oops:
 
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