High End Audio and the Domain of Time

[dc655321]

Or just a healthy dose of skepticism, curiosity, and a willingness to learn.

Isn’t that contraindicated for Old and Bitter ?

 

[voodooless]

I have posted a link to a serious scientific paper in post #13 and this paper also provides citations of many other scientific papers. ITD is a well investigated phenomenon. Amateurish internet videos or on-line tests should not be considered as a serious source of information.

Are you implying that because ITD is a wel established phenomenon, that there is nothing wrong with the video? Or are you referring to the video as amateurish? Production quality definitely is, but the dude has some serious accreditations to show..

 

[pma]

Are you implying that because ITD is a wel established phenomenon, that there is nothing wrong with the video? Or are you referring to the video as amateurish? Production quality definitely is, but the dude has some serious accreditations to show..

I am not commenting on stupid videos, sorry. Not interested. I am just saying that ITD 5 - 10 us is possible to detect in a properly made test. I hate oversimplifications based on silly calculations of us to mm and then stating it is impossible. I hate all the oversimplification that ASR is full of. This forum declares itself as scientific, but it is not. It is rather a populistic forum.

 

[voodooless]

I am not commenting on stupid videos, sorry. Not interested.

Well, you basically did but thanks for clarifying your point anyway! We don’t want to construe it as misinformation

 

[SIY]

I am not commenting on stupid videos, sorry. Not interested. I am just saying that ITD 5 - 10 us is possible to detect in a properly made test. I hate oversimplifications based on silly calculations of us to mm and then stating it is impossible. I hate all the oversimplification that ASR is full of. This forum declares itself as scientific, but it is not. It is rather a populistic forum.

Your John Curl imitation is not a good look.

 

[Pdxwayne]

Sync Delay (1ms)
Correct — Current score: 10/10 (100%) — Confidence : 99.9%
It feels like you have successfully passed the test!

BD+HH BD first (50ms) HH first (50ms)

Correct — Current score: 10/10 (100%) — Confidence : 99.99% It feels like you have successfully passed the test!

That was way to easy.
I did not even use headphones just some old Dell laptop with bad speakers

Easy because of tonality change. Try headphones with 5ms and 2ms and your experience will likely be different.

See my thread here regarding the different clues using different combinations of chain.

DAC and amp combos did not give same clues when running online blind tests. Why? What would be the desired clue?

When running online blind timing tests yesterday, I heard different clues when using multiple combination of dac and amps. I wonder why. I thought, as long as I am using transparent DAC and amp, I can mix and match them and any combo will sound the same. But not this case. Is it okay? More...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Pdxwayne]

@heyabusa
What is that tests trying to prove?
I guess most would pass the tests with full score.

No, not most will pass.

See my survey results here:

Timing test results - a poll

The simple 2 ways timing online blind test is here: https://www.audiocheck.net/blindtests_timing_2w.php?time=100 I tried a while back using smartphone and could do 10/10 for 10ms. Lower was tougher for me. The site does not show the statistics of all those who tried. So I am curious how ASR...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Cbdb2]

How does an electronic device delay only some frequencies if its FR is flat? Even if its not flat his example will never happen where the first harmonic doesn't start for 3 cycles. Lots of examples of nothing relevant.

 

[nikosidis]

No, not most will pass.

See my survey results here:

Timing test results - a poll

The simple 2 ways timing online blind test is here: https://www.audiocheck.net/blindtests_timing_2w.php?time=100 I tried a while back using smartphone and could do 10/10 for 10ms. Lower was tougher for me. The site does not show the statistics of all those who tried. So I am curious how ASR...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I tried with headphones. Still very easy for me. 2ms is not easy.

	Sync Delay (5ms)
Correct — Current score: 10/10 (100%) — Confidence : 99.9% It feels like you have successfully passed the test!

 

[SIY]

How does an electronic device delay only some frequencies if its FR is flat? Even if its not flat his example will never happen where the first harmonic doesn't start for 3 cycles. Lots of examples of nothing relevant.

All pass filter.

 

[Cbdb2]

No, not most will pass.

See my survey results here:

Timing test results - a poll

The simple 2 ways timing online blind test is here: https://www.audiocheck.net/blindtests_timing_2w.php?time=100 I tried a while back using smartphone and could do 10/10 for 10ms. Lower was tougher for me. The site does not show the statistics of all those who tried. So I am curious how ASR...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Like the video this test shows something that will never happen, so why bother. How do you delay just the cymbal in a combined cymbal/snare sound? You can't, not even with dsp. The only device that can do this is the drummer.

 

[Cbdb2]

All pass filter.

And what audio electronics does this? And will it shift the first harmonic 900 degrees?

 

[SIY]

And what audio electronics does this? And will it shift the first harmonic 900 degrees?

Do you mean first overtone?

Normal electronics is minimum phase, so of course it doesn't do that. But it is possible to have an all pass filter, so as usual, we have to caveat weird exceptions.

 

[Cbdb2]

In the video he plays a 400hz and 800hz tone together than delays the 800hz tone by what looks like almost 3 cycles, about 900 degrees, can a all pass do that? You mean theres designers who would put in an all pass filter into there audio electronics? Seems highly unlikely.

 

[Cbdb2]

So another solution looking for a problem that doesn't exist.

 

[Pdxwayne]

I tried with headphones. Still very easy for me. 2ms is not easy.

	Sync Delay (5ms)
Correct — Current score: 10/10 (100%) — Confidence : 99.9% It feels like you have successfully passed the test!

Yup. As you already observed, not all chain give same clues. How about your clue for headphones vs laptop speakers? Was it all tonality change?

 

[Pdxwayne]

Like the video this test shows something that will never happen, so why bother. How do you delay just the cymbal in a combined cymbal/snare sound? You can't, not even with dsp. The only device that can do this is the drummer.

Will never happen? How do you know your speaker's tweeter and woofer are absolutely in sync? If you are using subwoofer, how do you know your sub and speakers will never off sync?

 

[nikosidis]

Yup. As you already observed, not all chain give same clues. How about your clue for headphones vs laptop speakers? Was it all tonality change?

Yes, it was even more easy from the PC speakers. Just like you said

 

[nikosidis]

Will never happen? How do you know your speaker's tweeter and woofer are absolutely in sync? If you are using subwoofer, how do you know your sub and speakers will never off sync?

At least in the early days of digital recording you also had to set sync. time for the audio card.
I remember I recorded some stuff on my guitar and played over it and it was not in sync.
It is also easy to do things like this in audio editing software. Do a multitrack recording and start to move instruments around. Even a drumset you can record every cymbal and drum on separate tracks. Then start moving, cutting everything and what have you

 

[Cbdb2]

Will never happen? How do you know your speaker's tweeter and woofer are absolutely in sync? If you are using subwoofer, how do you know your sub and speakers will never off sync?

What your hearing is the interference between the 2 sounds in the same freq. range. If you brickwalled 2 sounds so none of there freqs. overlapped I doubt you would hear a difference. So your speaker eg. dosnt do that. And a 1ms delay would be a foot of displacement between the tweeter and woofer!