HiFi News review the Kii Three loudspeaker

[Purité Audio]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5xufo1srwomo364/HFN Aug Kii Audio Three Reprint LOW.pdf?dl=0

Keith

 

[Dialectic]

87%

 

[Purité Audio]

The magazines are never going to completely endorse any ‘system’ loudspeaker, it would be cutting their own advertising throats.
I asked a traditional retailer who has recently taken on Kii how he is going to market them alongside his much more expensive traditional equipment, he said that if the client has ‘real’ money ( ie a lot) he wouldn’t even show them the Kiis and point them instead at the Magico/Wilson end of the spectrum.
Hi-Fi for most customers has very little to do with sound quality.
Keith

 

[svart-hvitt]

From a «scientific» point of view, the only new information in the Hifi News review is their pointing out that the accuracy of Kii’s frequency response is +/- 2.1 dB, which is short of the producer’s specification of +/- 0.5 dB.

The Kii Three is a fine speaker. But it doesn’t build trust when you lie about specifications. This comes after Kii, without explaining why, suddenly changed their low frequency specifications from 20 to 30 Hz.

Specifications should be truthful, even in the case of the producer being a new kid on the block.

 

[Purité Audio]

I agree they are still miles better than Genelec though.
Keith

 

[svart-hvitt]

I agree they are still miles better than Genelec though.
Keith

Why bring up Genelec?

Do you imply that Genelec too are misstating their specs? That’s an accusation you’d better document.

 

[Purité Audio]

No particular reason, just had the opportunity this week to compare ( in the same room) the Kiis against the 8260’s , the improvement is obvious.
Keith

 

[svart-hvitt]

Keith, you are setting the bar low here.

The Kii Threes are €10.000 speakers.

The Genelec 8350 are €3.000 speakers.

Besides, you are a dealer of Kii, and yet you - on a scientifically bent audio formum - talk about your preference for the sound of Kii.

Again, what is the big takeaway from the Hifi News article is the fact that the test couldn’t reproduce Kii’s official specifications on frequency response. The testers measured deviations that were four times bigger than Kii’s stated specs.

Probably no big issue sound wise. But misstating specs doesn’t build trust.

Having said that, the stated specs of frequency response +/- 0.5 dB would have been (probably) a world record. If you publish specs that are «world record» material, you should - in my view - be very sure that those records can be reproduced by others. Being able to reproduce is a cornerstone in science.

 

[SIY]

From a «scientific» point of view, the only new information in the Hifi News review is their pointing out that the accuracy of Kii’s frequency response is +/- 2.1 dB, which is short of the producer’s specification of +/- 0.5 dB.

It's only significant if they did the measurement exactly the same way as the manufacturer. This is speakers, not amps or DACs- move the mike a centimeter and the response will change. Change the gating and the waterfall will look totally different. And obviously, change the room and all bets are off.

Without a good set of off axis measurements, the graphs in that article are just decorative.

 

[svart-hvitt]

It's only significant if they did the measurement exactly the same way as the manufacturer. This is speakers, not amps or DACs- move the mike a centimeter and the response will change. Change the gating and the waterfall will look totally different. And obviously, change the room and all bets are off.

Without a good set of off axis measurements, the graphs in that article are just decorative.

My point is: The stated FR +/- 0.5 dB always looked suspicious. Have you ever seen speakers that are +/- 0.5 dB?

When your claim is of the extraordinary kind, you should expect extraordinary evidence. To me, it seems like Kii made several claims on their product that after a while don’t pass closer scrutiny.

Still, Kii Three is a good speaker. It’s just their way of communicating that grabs my attention.

Remember, Kii and Keith have previously made the claim that Kii Three is a «big» speaker, comparable to bigger membrane and box designs. Kii Three is all you’ll ever need, it was claimed. Then, all of a sudden, comes the BXT extension that triples the size of the original Kii package. At a price which makes the Kii a €25.000 package.

After working in a field where bullshit claims are the norm for over two decades, my BS radar my be a bit more sensitive than what is good. Still, there’s been lots of BS surrounding Kii and I am surprised Keith thinks ASR is a good place to promote BS.

Lastly: Kii is a good speaker. Just keep the BS out.

 

[SIY]

My point is: The stated FR +/- 0.5 dB always looked suspicious. Have you ever seen speakers that are +/- 0.5 dB?

No, but I haven't measured their speakers in the way they did to arrive at that spec. So I remain agnostic until someone does the measurement the same way and shows a different result.

edit: Would you happen to know or have a reference to how Kii did that measurement? If not, no worries, I'm asking you to do work for me.

 

[Purité Audio]

My point is: The stated FR +/- 0.5 dB always looked suspicious. Have you ever seen speakers that are +/- 0.5 dB?

When your claim is of the extraordinary kind, you should expect extraordinary evidence. To me, it seems like Kii made several claims on their product that after a while don’t pass closer scrutiny.

Still, Kii Three is a good speaker. It’s just their way of communicating that grabs my attention.

Remember, Kii and Keith have previously made the claim that Kii Three is a «big» speaker, comparable to bigger membrane and box designs. Kii Three is all you’ll ever need, it was claimed. Then, all of a sudden, comes the BXT extension that triples the size of the original Kii package. At a price which makes the Kii a €25.000 package.

After working in a field where bullshit claims are the norm for over two decades, my BS radar my be a bit more sensitive than what is good. Still, there’s been lots of BS surrounding Kii and I am surprised Keith thinks ASR is a good place to promote BS.

Lastly: Kii is a good speaker. Just keep the BS out.

Customers almost certainly do not need the new bass module, unless they have a huge space and/or want to play deafeningly loudly.
The Kii THREE is a superb loudspeaker there is no need for BS, the chap who has the 8260’s has ordered a pair.
Keith

 

[svart-hvitt]

Customers almost certainly do not need the new bass module, unless they have a huge space and/or want to play deafeningly loudly.
The Kii THREE is a superb loudspeaker there is no need for BS, the chap who has the 8260’s has ordered a pair.
Keith

Keith, you’re on collision course again, now with your notion on the BXT module being for those with «huge space» playing «deafeningly loud».

Around 6:40 Bruno Putzey claims the BXT module play «brilliantly in tiny rooms». He does not talk at all about the BXT as a tool to play extremely loud in large rooms.

Se interview video in this link (ca. 06:40):

https://darko.audio/2018/05/playback-pioneers-2018-bruno-putzeys-kii-audio/

The Hifi News article actually casts light on why a BXT module makes sense for your Kii: Distortion.

In other words: It seems like you and Bruno Putzey have differing views on what the BXT is about. Who is making it up (again)?

 

[Purité Audio]

The Kii is a superb loudspeaker as it is, measuring flat to 20Hz in my room, you can see the measurements on my website, I will get the BXT module and report hopefully this autumn.
As it is the Kii and Dutch&Dutch 8Cs are head and shoulders better than any other loudspeaker I have heard.
Keith

 

[Krunok]

The magazines are never going to completely endorse any ‘system’ loudspeaker, it would be cutting their own advertising throats.
Keith

But we are still supposed to trust their reviews?

 

[Thomas savage]

No particular reason, just had the opportunity this week to compare ( in the same room) the Kiis against the 8260’s , the improvement is obvious.
Keith

I think there was a particular reason, you know @svart-hvitt is a genelec enthusiast so you thought you’d poke him.

Dull, very dull.

 

[Thomas savage]

But we are still supposed to trust their reviews?

Only if they are reviewing kit your selling, else all reviews are suspect lol

 

[svart-hvitt]

The Kii is a superb loudspeaker as it is, measuring flat to 20Hz in my room, you can see the measurements on my website, I will get the BXT module and report hopefully this autumn.
As it is the Kii and Dutch&Dutch 8Cs are head and shoulders better than any other loudspeaker I have heard.
Keith

Keith, your stated low frequency measurement includes room gain. You can’t mix a speaker’s anechoic behaviour with that of its in-room behaviour just like that.

 

[Krunok]

Only if they are reviewing kit your selling, else all reviews are suspect lol

Oh, I'm so glad I'm not the only one who does that!

 

[Soniclife]

Would you happen to know or have a reference to how Kii did that measurement?

They state...

Frequency response: ± 0,5dB - 25 kHz, 20Hz -6dB (*)
(*) IEC60268-5 Paragraphe 20.6

I'm not aware of magazines doing this sort of measurement properly in anechoic rooms unless stated.