Have Slim Floorstanding Speakers "Had Their Day?"

[Soniclife]

But, I don’t think you can ignore xmax differences. I’m thinking of designs like the KEF Blade that use multiple smaller woofers highly effectively.

I wasn't saying you can ignore xmax, but without a data sheet I know of no way of guessing how it compares, I don't think there is a general rule.

 

[Soniclife]

So 6" drivers usually have much higher excursion than 12" drivers? I think you will find this is not the case.

As you have probably looked at a lot of data sheets do you have any numbers to help?

I'm guessing the big problem is a 6" is probably built to be a bass / mid and has to work up to 2k, where a 12" only to to a few hundred hz.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Well. No.

View attachment 350273

And in general I find that even more smaller drivers with total equal cone area don't sound like one driver with equal cone area. I can't explain that convincingly but there are a couple of threads on ASR discussing that phenomenon.

A 12" is 460-490 cm^2, not 730?

 

[sigbergaudio]

As you have probably looked at a lot of data sheets do you have any numbers to help?

I'm guessing the big problem is a 6" is probably built to be a bass / mid and has to work up to 2k, where a 12" only to to a few hundred hz.

Not sure there's magic involved.

I would guess many towers with 6-7" woofers isn't necessarily using the best and most expensive drivers they can find, so the drivers have weak motors and not very high xmax. This combined with the fact you need like six 6" drivers to get the same surface area, it kind of explains itself. Not many tower speakers have six 6" drivers, more likely they have maybe three.

So two speakers with one 12" each essentially have twice the real estate, and probably higher xmax too. No wonder it sounds more dynamic and powerful.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

You cannot use simple maths for driver equivalence, the specified size is she distance between the screws on the frame, not the cone diameter, which is inevitably smaller. You need about 8 6" drivers to match a 12", ignoring xmax differences.

It is a simple comparison. Nothing else. A rough estimation to put things in perspective.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

A 12" is 460-490 cm^2, not 730?

I think you need to check your calculus again? (15,25*15,25*3,14)

 

[Deleted member 48726]

So 6" drivers usually have much higher excursion than 12" drivers? I think you will find this is not the case.

What I meant was;
In general the slimlines with 5 or 6" bass drivers I have seen have had beefier surrounds than the larger bass drivers in larger speakers I have seen.
That indicates a driver made with relatively high excursion in mind.

 

[MattHooper]

A slim speaker that often caught my ear back in the day, when they were in the showroom. The Audio Physic Virgo 2

That brings back fond memories of having those Virgo speakers in my home. They really set a standard in many of the things I was looking for in the sound of a speaker. I personally felt that subsequent models, while improving on various areas, never quite recaptured the particular mid/highs character I liked in the Virgo.

Unfortunately in my room they had a midbass emphasis (also identified by Fremer in his review) that I found I couldn't quite hear past after a while. I followed them with the Audio Physic Libra, which sounded more powerful and linear (and later the Scorpios, even bigger sounding). But they didn't quite have the magic I heard in the mids/highs with the Virgos.

 

[sigbergaudio]

I think you need to check your calculus again? (15,25*15,25*3,14)

So, the edge of the driver doesn't produce sound. If you look at some actual 12" drivers, they have and SD (effective cone area) of around 500 +/- 50 cm^2 depending on how they measure it and depending on what type of suspension and construction they have.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

So, the edge of the driver doesn't produce sound. If you look at some actual drivers, they have and SD (effective cone area) of around 500 +/- 50 cm^2 depending on how they measure it and depending on what type of suspension and construction they have.

I know.
It's only to put things into perspective when comparing areas. That's it.

 

[dagfinn]

JBL and others have done this shape, narrowing on top. Front baffle is angled backwards, so the woofers are angled up, while tweeter is kept 90 deg vertical. To me, there are interesting concepts here, but I'm just a user. How do the designers see this shape? Anyway, this is how I like a narrow speaker best . My wife not so much. (Not my speakers, can't find source of pic).

 

[Pearljam5000]

Most KEF speakers are pretty slim so...

 

[Deleted member 48726]

View attachment 350477
JBL and others have done this shape, narrowing on top. Front baffle is angled backwards, so the woofers are angled up, while tweeter is kept 90 deg vertical. To me, there are interesting concepts here, but I'm just a user. How do the designers see this shape? Anyway, this is how I like a narrow speaker best . My wife not so much. (Not my speakers, can't find source of pic).

Uh, 250Ti

 

[Theta]

Well. No.

View attachment 350273

And in general I find that even more smaller drivers with total equal cone area don't sound like one driver with equal cone area. I can't explain that convincingly but there are a couple of threads on ASR discussing that phenomenon.

Three or four or what ever number six inch drivers, dont sound like a 12 inch or 15 inch woofer no mater your area calculation charts.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

Three or four or what ever number six inch drivers, dont sound like a 12 inch or 15 inch woofer no mater your area calculation charts.

I agree. They don't. That's my experience as well.

 

[dagfinn]

Uh, Ti5000LE.

Meaning?

 

[Deleted member 48726]

Meaning?

Oh, meant 250Ti..

 

[Tangband]

And with the right setup, they can sound "rich and full" with "body/richness/scale etc."

Agree.
I think that broad baffles are popular right now, but slim floorstanders gonna stay because they look better.
The baffle step correction is lower in frequency with a broad baffle than a slim one, but those technical issues can be dealt with without serious drawbacks , the ls60 is a good example.

Personally, I think the stereo image illusion is often BETTER with a slim speaker .

 

[thewas]

Personally, I think the stereo image illusion is often BETTER with a slim speaker .

With typical compromised Hifi loudspeakers yes, because of mainly 2 reasons, the edge diffraction problems are closer to the sound source and usually slim speakers have smaller drivers which integrate better vertically.

Basic article | Baffle geometry

About baffle design, edge diffraction, secondary sound sources and their influence on the reproduction quality of loudspeakers.

heissmann-acoustics.de

But with well engineered baffles and driver integration like as shown nowadays on some current SOTA monitors this isn't a problem and those image greatly plus having the advantage of lower baffle step and usually also higher SPL.

 

[Angsty]

The Spendor Classic 200 is there if the slimmer A and D series don’t wow you.