Have Slim Floorstanding Speakers "Had Their Day?"

[MattHooper]

Obviously there's a lot more nuance than is implied in my sort of click-baitish title (had to keep it short), but...

The question was partially inspired by my listening to this podcast:

Why BIGGER loudspeakers are BETTER​

‎Darko.Audio podcast: Why BIGGER loudspeakers are BETTER on Apple Podcasts

‎Show Darko.Audio podcast, Ep Why BIGGER loudspeakers are BETTER - Apr 23, 2023

podcasts.apple.com

Where Peter Comeau if AIG talks about designing the larger new Wharfedale Dovedale speakers, and why smaller/slim speakers tend to be a compromise:





Clearly this is yet another speaker in the trendy "bringing back old school big box wider baffle speaker design" trend, at least in the audiophile world. And it's more that trend, than the specific podcast, that I'm thinking of. Though not strictly limited to the old-school designs...really anything on the subject of why bigger/wider speakers may be desirable vs the slimmer speakers.

Of course any manufacturer/designer can come up with an excuse to hop on the "old school box speaker" design trend. (I'm looking at you, Mo-Fi).

But nonetheless, some make the case based on claims like how bigger speakers are easier to design to sound rich and full, how they can get around some of the baffle-step problems that lead many slim speakers to a lack of body/richness/scale etc.

The arguments for jumping out of the slim speaker paradigm is that the goal of trying to make speakers ever more domestically acceptable pushed speaker designers to ever thinner speakers, with smaller drivers, (and lower sensitivity) which tend to compromise sound for looks.

Personally, I caught the narrow floorstanding speaker "bug" when I heard Audio Physic Virgo speakers in the 90's, and later owned several Audio Physic models. I really loved the way they did not take up much visual space and "disappeared" as apparent sources of the sound, with a big airy soundstage etc.

On the other hand I've also come to appreciate a bigger, beefier sound from some of the more old-school wider-baffle/bigger driver designs. So...I like both.

At the moment I'm using Joseph Perspective floor standing speakers, the very definition of "small, domestically acceptable slim floor standing speaker," which tries to pack a big sound in a smallish speaker. I went back and forth between these and some of the bigger more old school designs. The wider speakers didn't ultimately suit the needs of my room, and I have to say I still quite enjoy the sort of magic act of sitting between widely spaced slim speakers that take up so little visual space yet seem to conjure up a vast soundscape.


What are your thoughts? Did you ever like any slim floor standing speakers? Are you "over them" and happy to go with beefier looking (sounding?) speakers that don't put a slim profile as a premium? And of course any arguments against the 'slim floor standing speakers are compromised' are welcome. (For instance, the new KEF LS60 has been very well received).

 

[Deleted member 58722]

I'm biased...

 

[NiagaraPete]

The new KEF LS60 are thin and tall.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

The new KEF LS60 are thin and tall.

And with the right setup, they can sound "rich and full" with "body/richness/scale etc."

 

[pablolie]

I am a firm believer that bookshelf speakers on stands with one or two subs are far easier to optimize in room setup. I have large towers... in storage. They simply would not work in my new (smaller) room. So my answer would be "neither" for now... but the LS60 look pretty awesome. Waiting for them to come out in red.

 

[DSJR]

It does seem in the UK that short fat stand mounts just don't sell like they used to. No doubt the Dovedale will be a very good speaker indeed under the retro skin, but the Linton Heritage hasn't sold that well here I gather and five grand a pair bridges two markets really, the lower priced small boxes together with the huge used market and on the other foot, the silly price high end.

Me? For retro I'd get some original KEF Concerto's, update/restore the crossovers, stick 'em on 12" or so stands and grin from ear to ear (and arguably drive them with a restored Quad 33/303 which suits them so very well) I've got the amp........

 

[Jasperous]

I'm trying to justify a set of LS60s. I have heard them and they are just as good as the R7, almost as deep as the R11 and nothing required of them than just a set of power cables.

 

[SIY]

What are your thoughts? Did you ever like any slim floor standing speakers? Are you "over them" and happy to go with beefier looking (sounding?) speakers that don't put a slim profile as a premium? And of course any arguments against the 'slim floor standing speakers are compromised' are welcome. (For instance, the new KEF LS60 has been very well received).

My daily drivers are slim floorstanding speakers (albeit deep). I have zero desire to change them- their approach to stereo reproduction is (IMO) a very clever one and not easily done with another form factor.

I'm unsure why baffle step compensation is considered difficult. It's not.

 

[rynberg]

There is a large gap between A) the concept of minimizing the front baffle of a speaker to reduce diffraction and other negative effects, and (B) "lifestyle" speakers, where performance is compromised to achieve less aesthetically-intrusive appearance. This type of piss-poor "analysis" lumps these two categories together.

IMO, anyone seriously concerned with high fidelity is using a subwoofer(s), even for stereo music (unless they are using truly full-range speakers). So there is no need for speakers to have extended low frequency response, allowing them to be slimmer (not lifestyle skinny, just slimmer).

 

[mhardy6647]

I'm biased...

View attachment 282859

me, too...

 

[Shadrach]

The only thing that might have had their day are audiophiles who believe that the shape of a speaker speaks volumes about it's performance.
What are you like @MattHooper

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

speakers should be slim only subs needs to be thicc.

 

[MattHooper]

The only thing that might have had their day are audiophiles who believe that the shape of a speaker speaks volumes about it's performance.
What are you like @MattHooper

"Obviously there's a lot more nuance than is implied in my sort of click-baitish title...."

The shape of a speaker is tied to it's performance, of course. Certain shapes and sizes will impose constraints/challenges/limitations/advantages/disadvantages etc.
(And visa verse: certain design goals seek certain shapes and sizes)

Seems weird if someone on a technical audiophile forum doesn't think it's relevant. It's a reasonable conversation. How much does anyone value a slim-shaped speaker. What if any performance qualities do they give up. Any preferences for larger woofer/baffle speakers etc.

 

[JSmith]

Slim floorstanders are better suited to smaller rooms and apartments etc. and surely have their place in the market. I prefer floorstanders either thin or fat over bookshelves on stands.


JSmith

 

[kemmler3D]

I think slim speakers are theoretically suspect in some ways (no directivity until higher frequencies?) as Bruno states in the Grimm whitepaper: https://www.grimmaudio.com/publications/speakers-white-paper/

On the other hand, in today's world we have fancy DSP for cardioid and other directivity control schemes, as we see in Bruno's later work on the Kii speakers.

So I am not sure that slim speakers are done for.

One thing I will say is that I've finally come to appreciate the role that large drivers have in reducing IMD. So I would personally like to see wide speakers make a comeback. It's usually cheaper and easier to get a certain SPL out of a 12" than two 8"s and you end up with less distortion in the end. High excursion is cool and useful, but something to be avoided if possible.

audiophiles who believe that the shape of a speaker speaks volumes about it's performance.

The size and shape of the cabinet and drivers are pretty big clues to performance, if not completely definitive. You can't build a speaker that isn't subject to diffraction, after all.

 

[AlfaNovember]

In all honesty, I've always thought that the Slim Tower form-factor had little to do with sound, and much to do with the rise of Home Theater in the '90s. Everything needed to squeeze into the standard American livingroom to either side of the CRT, which meant slim towers sold the best and looked the business.

Growing up, my dad had KLH 17s, then similarly sized Magnat bookshelves the 80's. I started with Paradigm Titans in the early 90s, ended the decade with Vienna Acoustics Mozart slim towers before detouring into Snell E-II floorstanders and deeper into Altec Duplex and DIY silliness. The VAs were memorable only for their lovely build quality; I have no sonic recollection of them at all.

 

[Laserjock]

what about “tapered” speakers ?

 

[JiiPee]

I still like my slim floorstanding System Audio Rangers H:116cm(45.67'') x W:13cm(5.12'') x D:32cm(12.60'').
They are just so convenient in my modestly sized European style apartment living room.

 

[Pretorious]

It has struck me lately that soundbars are becoming wider, slightly taller with more depth. The top models are a lot like slim floors standers laid on their sides. Clearly an effort to save space in the same way as their floor standing counterparts did, while providing some semblance of sound quality. Of course they do not have the same stereo separation, among other things, but the design language is apparently being used to solve a technical problem for consumers. Space and convenience will always be a consideration for many, audiophiles and non-audiophiles.

 

[mcdn]

There are very specific advantages to wide baffles, namely maintenance of narrow directivity down to a lower frequency. The Grimm LS1 being the archetypal modern realisation of this approach.

Kef's big speakers (LS60, Blade) come up in these discussions, but it's a different issue because those uni-q drivers have narrower directivity overall, and the side firing woofers deal with the low bass.

But most wide baffle speakers are doing it for the aesthetics not the performance. If the box has sharp edges you know it's going for form over function.