Harbeth Monitor 30 Speaker Review

[Phorize]

I think that illusion is common everywhere. US-made products are a lot more expensive in the UK than they are at home, and by far more than could be accounted for just by transport, importation and our 20% VAT.

S.

Yep, usually the US $ price is just converted into £ Sterling.

 

[Willem]

That is fair enough if you add the VAT, but with Harbeth USA's importer the difference has consistently been rather bigger.

 

[DSJR]

I think he has probably been encouraged by the Asian market to put prices up. I certainly know one other maker who was told by his Asian importer that the problem was the speakers were too inexpensive to be taken seriously by his higher end customers.
Some special models with heavily marketed mods that made no difference were made at ~10x the price for this market and sold better...

Not sure ten times the price here (they did have a premium of maybe 30% or so from memory) and one or two models were refined versions which DID make for a small somic advantage. One prime reason for the price increase is the selling prices of the less accomplished competition which shocked him when he allocated the funds to go out and buy samples. Spendors have cost more for ages now (I think higher dealer margins had a lot to do with it) and Stirling prices have increased a lot as well. My first '5' model was an HL5 back in around 1990 (before my ATC days ) and this walnut pair retailed for around £1250 I remember. Two unit rather than three unit system, they'd be around £3k now. I can't remember exactly but the SHL5 was around £2400 - £2600 in the late noughties, so taking 2009 as year, that's around £3300 to £3500 today. Current 5's are £5k yet are selling better than ever, so I've no bloody clue frankly! Looking at comments and systems on a Facebook page as well as some system questions on the HUG forum, I think they're now in wealthy gear-collector markets now, where the cachet and status enhancing of the brand is as or even more important than the sound quality.

I need to listen again when my dealer friend and colleague is up for it (still not right for lads days out I'm afraid), but I did feel the C7-XD is *now* more like the 5-XD-but-smaller and the M30.2-XD is now the slightly tubby-toned one, which wasn't the case some years back.

One thing we can all agree on here. Alan has stated there's really not much more he can do to the existing designs and any major steps forward will be totally new models. Now I believe he has Klippel and Spendor's recent designer on board, I expect wonderful things in the future, but obviously the success at the current high price points won't see a price reduction any time soon which is sad for me if nobody in their main market will worry as they seem to have much more money to spend (maybe a blinkered UK view).

Not sure how much the Brexit situation has messed up our exports to non-EU countries. On the one hand I'm damned glad we tore ourseves away from self serving beaurocrats in 'Brussells' but my Lord, the price we're paying for it must hurt UK exporters badly at the moment (I had a nice chat with Willem about it elsewhere and try not to be closed minded about it all). Covid has also increased shipping charges massively (doubled I think), so whether that plays a part in manufacturer margins perhaps? Not excuses here, but a pair of speakers I've just sold (they're going off to China of course) are costing loads to send there.

 

[Frank Dernie]

Not sure ten times the price here

The 10x the price was the other manufacturer I referred to.

Edit: I was miles out ! #427

 

[iwantobelieve]

I think the problem is once you hike to those price brackets you have much more competition from considerably newer overall designs. As you say, the old BBC design can only carry so far, despite new cone materials and gradual progression in crossover design. They're a lovely listen, and I do enjoy them, but, I dunno if I'd buy them at the 'new' prices - it would certainly be a much harder sell.

I suppose if he can get that kind of money for them, good luck to him, but he'll be doing it at the expense of a broader customer base who can't justify those prices, which is a bit of a shame, I think. And I'm in the UK, so no export price hikes in my equation. Overseas, all bets are off regardless of brand - I've wanted McIntosh amps for years (which sound doubly-lovely to my ears with said Harbeths), but they're an insane price over here, so...

 

[DSJR]

I think that illusion is common everywhere. US-made products are a lot more expensive in the UK than they are at home, and by far more than could be accounted for just by transport, importation and our 20% VAT.

S.

Schiit aside though

Oh the tales i expect we could tell each other on stuff that went on in the hey-days when a good stereo system was judged important to many.

 

[Frank Dernie]

The Snell E design was sold to Audio Note and is still available. It used to be around $1200 iirc.
They have a range of models now, from the original to ones IMHO to appeal to those who equate more expensive with better ranging from $5,500 to $165,000

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/audio-note-esogon-speaker

Edit, sorry I missed out the

 

[DSJR]

I think the problem is once you hike to those price brackets you have much more competition from considerably newer overall designs. As you say, the old BBC design can only carry so far, despite new cone materials and gradual progression in crossover design. They're a lovely listen, and I do enjoy them, but, I dunno if I'd buy them at the 'new' prices - it would certainly be a much harder sell.

Well, reports are that Harbeth have had a record year despite the covid and Brexit situation. People obviously want them but my fear it's heritage rather than sound quality, but I do hope it's more than that. For peeps like me, this site is showing just what can be achieved for far less money.

 

[DSJR]

The Snell E design was sold to Audio Note and is still available. It used to be around $1200 iirc.
They have a range of models now, from the original to ones IMHO to appeal to those who equate more expensive with better ranging from $5,500 to $165,000

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/audio-note-esogon-speaker

Edit, sorry I missed out the

I had a pair of Snell E II's for precisely two weeks, only two days at home. I'd done an exchange deal with my pal (I had some isobariks and a naim amp which were exchanged for these and cash adjustment I remember). They'd been used in a large room away from walls and on 'Pirate' stands at around 11" high and with Audio Innovations valve gear. Sounded nice but at home, they boomed and had a really nasty resonance/harshness at the crossover point in near-field. Very dated design (and people slag Harbeths off for being 'vintage' or old fashioned). The smaller Snell models were also not that good but gained an incredible reputation in some quarters here in the 90's... Not sure hemp cones, foo caps or whatever can save them either

 

[Frank Dernie]

Not sure hemp cones, foo caps or whatever can save them either

Indeed, I suspect a Klippel test of a speaker with this driver complement would not be world beating, even the $165,000 one

The AN marketing page for these speakers is a distillation of most of the BS in the hifi business on one page IMO. I know people who believe it all though.

 

[Phorize]

I had a pair of Snell E II's for precisely two weeks, only two days at home. I'd done an exchange deal with my pal (I had some isobariks and a naim amp which were exchanged for these and cash adjustment I remember). They'd been used in a large room away from walls and on 'Pirate' stands at around 11" high and with Audio Innovations valve gear. Sounded nice but at home, they boomed and had a really nasty resonance/harshness at the crossover point in near-field. Very dated design (and people slag Harbeths off for being 'vintage' or old fashioned). The smaller Snell models were also not that good but gained an incredible reputation in some quarters here in the 90's... Not sure hemp cones, foo caps or whatever can save them either

That’s fascinating, in the early 90s my friends dad had precisely the same set up. I sense that one of the magazines at the time had probably recommended this set up.

 

[Willem]

Ah yes ..... those magazines ...

 

[ahofer]

I think I saw $24k for the 40.3 now. I think it was around $16k for the 40.2. More power to him if he can get it. I paid a little over $7k for SLH5+AE.

I'd love to side-by-side compare the Dutch & Dutch to the 40.3 (or my SHL5+). I think that would be fascinating.

 

[DSJR]

His pension pot will love him I know, but as I said, the higher prices are becoming interesting to a less desirable kind of audiophile owner, one who's into all the bullsh*t and will regard the product as a status symbol and largely with ignorance. I'm seeing that badly with my other favourite long term speaker brand and it almost brings me to tears after all the educative conversations I had with the owners of the company and the passion and knowledge they were so willing to share in understandable English to the likes of me. See, it's not all about impeccable Klippel responses and so on...

Long before Audio Note, Snell and Audio Innovations often with a Void multi-motor turntable with a Helius arm? was a sub set of UK audio dealers that had a very fair thing going I remember. Sound could be very good and prices not too silly then I recall.

 

[DSJR]

I'd love to side-by-side compare the Dutch & Dutch to the 40.3 (or my SHL5+). I think that would be fascinating.

You're comparing a hopefully well designed three way but passive speaker with high-falutin' active designs riddled well with DSP I think, to make them perform better than they would otherwise. Not fair really

 

[Frank Dernie]

Long before Audio Note, Snell and Audio Innovations often with a Void multi-motor turntable with a Helius arm?

The guy who started Audio note UK had a dealership near here with those products.
I spent a very pleasant evening there with him maybe 30 years ago now and the system sounded fine but I was unconvinced by his eulogies listening to music I knew, I didn't feel it was better than what I was using at home, Yamaha NS1000M with either Hafler or Musical Fidelity pre/power, I forget which.
I have friends who swear by their AN UK systems.

 

[ahofer]

You're comparing a hopefully well designed three way but passive speaker with high-falutin' active designs riddled well with DSP I think, to make them perform better than they would otherwise. Not fair really

Don't really care how I get there.

 

[DSJR]

B&O used to have a thing with their TV's years back called 'Viewing Comfort.' In the store, some preferred the CRT era Sony/Panasonic style of maximum contrast and a strong bright picture with hard almost crushed whites and hard blacks (after four or five years of thrashing the CRT's so hard, they were effed quite often). Take that set home and often, you couldn't easily watch the older Sony CRT picture in a relaxed way under low-light conditions where the old Beovisions with 'contrast plate' eventually matured into a very nice domestic viewing experience and mostly with half decent built-in speakers too (ported two way in mine and each 'enclosure' was decoupled a little in the outer TV frame - I miss that quality of sound from a telly. Despite the white-black range not being so good on early plasma sets, I found them quite watchable (this was in the days of 42" screens and before Pionner got going with them).

I'm beginning to feel this way as regards music listening at home. Damn the specs and measurements, do I *really* want to listen to everything under a magnifying glass all the time, or would I prefer something just a little 'gentler' and utterly charming to listen to, while being clear enough not to be bland and boring?

 

[richard12511]

You're comparing a hopefully well designed three way but passive speaker with high-falutin' active designs riddled well with DSP I think, to make them perform better than they would otherwise. Not fair really

I see it as fair, as those passive speakers designers could go active and make their speakers sound better if they wanted to. They choose to stay passive, so it seems perfectly fair to me.

Unfortunately, there exists a passive speaker bias in high end audio. People just don't believe that an active system can sound as good as a comparable passive with their $30,000 amp and $10,000 DAC. I have respect for speaker designers willing to go active for the purposes of better sound, as I'm sure they're aware that they're probably hurting sales.

I'd love to see what Alan could do in the active domain, especially now that he has a Klippel(?).

 

[Frank Dernie]

I'd love to see what Alan could do in the active domain, especially now that he has a Klippel(?).

Harbeth made a small number of Active 40s for studio use, probably over 10 years ago.
I am storing a pair here for a friend.