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Harbeth Monitor 30 Speaker Review

DSJR

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Alan stated Harbeth were by far the biggest maker of active speakers in the UK some time back - HHB Circle anyone? They were well liked too but I remember that had the classic humped up upper mids response shape. They can even have drove units replaced - at a price though...

Such is the nature of the man, I seem to remember the active 40's were supposed to be individually installed in the client's studio when new and apparently, weren't available off the shelf as it were. I only know the 40.1's so can't speak for the othersof this size but gather the 40.2 further improved the driver 'blend' and tautened the bass a little more.
 

RoyB

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Returning ti HiFi after an absence of 10-15 years, I'm having a very difficult time with some of these seemingly very high prices for equipment. $150,000 turntables, $50,000 amplifiers and $30,000 preamplifiers......and the topper, $10,000 headphones! At the price of these and other 3/5a speakers, the expectation is very high.....and NOT easily met......

Well, reports are that Harbeth have had a record year
At the price offered, they only need to sell a few dozen pairs if the "record" is in dollars.,..
 

Phorize

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I wonder if it’s a coincidence that the prices went up in the year that U.K exporters costs jumped and the company started investing in a new direction, recruiting a new engineer to support new product development.
 

Phorize

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iwantobelieve

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Regarding active speakers vs passives, specifically Harbeths, I’ve had C7 ES-3 in the same room and system as Meridian DSPs of various vintages and levels. There is no question in my mind that the Meridians represent a more accurate speaker and a considerably better value proposition (particularly given Harbeth’s recent price hike).

People get the cost/value analysis of actives and particularly DSPs wrong, as (at least the Meridian ones) contain one amp per driver, one DAC per driver plus active crossovers, etc. Passives contain none, of course.

I do think Harbeth are an honest enough design and have done a stellar job of marketing and getting a great review portfolio in the last couple of decades. They’ve built a heritage reputation and that’s fine. OTOH, Meridian are notoriously poor at this, they were just really good engineers who enjoyed pushing boundaries and being on the cutting edge, at least back in the day before Bob Stuart (and Richard Hollinshead) departed.

It makes me laugh when I see all the furore about Dutch & Dutch or Kef LS50 actives in the HiFi press like they’re groundbreaking when Meridian have been doing this almost 30 years. Again, they just haven’t paid enough magazines in the last 15 years or so to get review publicity like other brands. Heck, I have some Meridian M2s from about 1981 which still beat most of what’s out there today, really, it’s astounding to me how long the audiophile world has taken to catch up with active speakers.

All that said, Harbeths do scratch my itch when I want to use some passives in a more traditional setup and I enjoy them immensely in that regard, quite charming.
 

iwantobelieve

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Sincere question: Meridian has cardioid/CD speakers with computer optimized waveguides?

No, they have other proprietary tech of various kinds (EBA, etc), but it’s not that to which I was referring - I’ve seen so many reviews of D&D, LS50 Wireless and the recent rash of digital/active speakers heralding a new dawn in audio simply because they are active/DSP speakers. It is this, in various guises, Meridian have been doing for the audiophile since the early 80s (active), early 90s (DSP). I genuinely think some newer audio reviewers are actually unaware of this.
 

thewas

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Meridian have been doing for the audiophile since the early 80s (active), early 90s (DSP). I genuinely think some newer audio reviewers are actually unaware of this.
Active loudspeakers existed from quite popular loudspeaker makers since the 70s, Meridian was one of the first though with DSP loudspeaker designs.
 

iwantobelieve

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Active loudspeakers existed from quite popular loudspeaker makers since the 70s, Meridian was one of the first though with DSP loudspeaker designs.

I know that some audiophile manufacturers allowed active options (e.g., Linn) fairly early, but sadly most home audio speakers have steadfastly remained passive. I believe it was much more common in pro audio back in the day though.

As you say, Meridian was certainly a DSP pioneer.
 

kotmj

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I did not read through all 23 pages of this thread. But I have been reading a lot of what Alan Shaw writes on his forum.

The response curve of Harbeths, like most BBC designs, respect the Fletcher-Munson curve. The aim is to have a "full, rich" sound at low to moderate volumes. Basically, a little like the "loudness" button on older integrated amplifiers.

A perfectly flat frequency response curve would sound, to a human being, lacking in bass (and therefore warmth) when played at low to moderate volumes. A thin anemic sound.

A speaker designed respecting the equal loudness curve would sound much better at low to moderate volumes.

For myself, I would never buy a speaker without a frequency response like Harbeths since I measure with my phone typically 60 dB in my listening position.
 

kaka89

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A perfectly flat frequency response curve would sound, to a human being, lacking in bass (and therefore warmth) when played at low to moderate volumes. A thin anemic sound.

A speaker designed respecting the equal loudness curve would sound much better at low to moderate volumes.

If the curve sounds better it should be included in the mix already.
 

kotmj

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But I am not sure this is true for the Harbeth speakers, nor that Alan Shaw claims it is.
Oh, but he does. All the time. He says sounding rich and full at late night listening volumes is something of a Harbeth specialty. If I find quotes I will put them here.
 

Willem

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I have been reading his posts for years, and I have not seen any of this. It is true that he does not like shrill speakers, but that is a different matter. Matching Fletcher Munson requires something level dependent and that can never be achieved with a speaker as it requires a more aggresive boost in a larger room than in a small one.
 

kotmj

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My existing speakers sound thin when I turn down the volume - can Harbeth help me?"

You probably could guess - there would be plenty of choice: the horrible 'modern sound' is bright, thin, reedy, cold, analytical, soulless, peaky, harsh and 'pushed' onto the listener. But the public - who attend very few acoustic concerts - have bit by bit, reprogrammed themselves into thinking that that is the norm. Of course, as they don't hear live unamplified music, why would they think otherwise?

OK, to answer the question. Where do we start? I can't design PA or rock and roll speakers because I have no interest in them and I don't know enough about how they would be used (or misused) and what expectations their users have of them. But in the case of a Harbeth, I have a very clear understanding of how our users will use our speakers, how loud they will play them, how far away they'll sit and what type of music; and above all, what would sound right to that user in that room, with that music at that listening level.

How can you be so sure that Harbeth's designer can read the user's mind? Some psychic powers perhaps?

No! I know how you'll use a Harbeth because I have you, in your room right at the front of my mind when I design because you and I listen the same way, the same distance, the same loudness. The sort of music you'd like I would too.

Does Harbeth design for a big room? Or perhaps for a UK-size listening room?

Harbeth's R&D centre is a cottage deep in the woods, not a building on an industrial estate. I do not design for big rooms because I don't live in a big house, all the rooms are multi-functional and have to double-up as bedrooms, lounges, studies or whatever. And The Cottage, the main listening room, is a perfectly normal domestic environment. So the rooms I have to listen in and work in is on the smaller side of ideal, and the acoustics are real-world acoustics, not million-dollar acoustically perfect environments. Those foam lined, quasi-anechoic expensive purpose-built listening rooms with text book acoustics can seriously delude the designer. Not one customer will listen in that or similar environment.

Does that mean that the Harbeth design/listening room different from other speaker brands?

Yes, I believe it does. Most speaker companies have large, purpose-built (and very impressive) listening rooms which they proudly invite journalists to. And that's where the manufacturers design review panel would sit as a group, X-factor-like, judging the loudspeakers presented to them. But, the problem is that if you design for a large damped room, by definition the speakers are far away, and by definition played quite loud, those speaker will be fundamentally unsuitable for a smaller room.

Why wouldn't they sound right in a smaller room?

Because, by definition, you would sit nearer to them and play them quieter in a smaller room. Those two factors have disastrous acoustic consequences.

Harbeth was founded by a BBC engineer -- why is that significant?

If you understand the importance of Harbeth's BBC foundation you'll really understand the Harbeth sound. The BBC is a broadcast organisation and produces thousands of hours of speech every year. All of that speech has to be carefully monitored and edited and made to fit the available broadcast time. This means trimming needless words and even the intake and exhalation of breath so that what we hear at home, even if heavily edited, sounds natural. In a multi-studio organisation like the BBC there are few studios that are dedicated to just one type of programme so that any one studio in any given week may be used for talks, drama, music recording, voice overs, trailers; the monitor speakers must be capable of revealing difficulties with the source material that allows the studio manager (sound engineer in BBC speak) to make adjustments at his mixing desk for computer workstation. Now the problem in a multi-studio complex is that in one studio there may be a quartet being recorded for an arts programme whilst next door -- through the relatively thin wall -- an obituary may be being read, the next studio along a serious political interrogation and next door to that a pop music programme being prepped.

The uniqueness of the Harbeth monitor concept is that it recognizes that to the sound editing staff in all four of these studios are obliged to monitor at a far lower level than they would ideally like. Now contrast with music recording studios, which are often located in remote and quiet areas in the countryside, where one artist will book the studio and work on his recording in isolation. There is no concern about neighbours and no worry about his performance in the studio or on playback monitors in the control room bleeding through to other artists because there aren't any. This is a wholly different situation to that which a studio manager would find in a broadcast organisation. In the recording studio the monitoring level will be as high or higher than on the artists side of the glass (which is why so many commercial recording engineers have significant hearing damage). Conversely in a broadcast organisation the monitoring level is far below that considered normal in the recording world, may be lower than on the artists side of the glass and is about the level that a hi-fi listener would experience at home.

A feature of the BBC monitor therefore has been to design it such that it has a full warm bodied sound when used at a low to moderate listening. It's optimised for sounding right in the 80 to 100dB range. Conversely a loudspeaker designed for recording studio use and/or one which was optimised for use in a large listening room far from the listener would sound right in the deafening (even frightening) 100 to 120dB range. But swap these speakers over and things don't sound right at all: the BBC monitor will sound rather rich and the high-level optimised speaker will sound very bass shy.

It's all about psychoacoustics. That's a fancy way of saying that the ear is very non-linear and perceived bass in a strange, but completely predictable way that is linked to how LOUD the sound is. This has been extensively researched for well over fifty years and it's very well understood. Read ISO-226

In short then, Harbeth speakers are designed to sound right at home at a normal level because they take into account the psychoacoustics of the ear. I have no idea what psychoacoustic model other speaker philosophies use, but I'd be surprised if their designers had given much thought to the reality of the ear as opposed to their test equipment. Why not phone their sales office and ask what hearing model underpins their design? If they can't point to ISO-226 or the earlier Equal Loudness Contours then I'd say that there is no possibility that their speakers could sound natural at home at a moderate listening level. Try it!

^That's Alan Shaw at his most generous
 

kotmj

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I have been reading his posts for years, and I have not seen any of this. It is true that he does not like shrill speakers, but that is a different matter. Matching Fletcher Munson requires something level dependent and that can never be achieved with a speaker as it requires a more aggresive boost in a larger room than in a small one.
Shaw isn't the only speaker designer who is very aware of the Fletcher Munson curve. Even Sonus Faber's designer mentioned it as one of his design principles.
 

Willem

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OK I see. However, 80-100 dB is not really low level listening. In fact, it is louder than many would actually listen. Anyway, I am happy with the Harbeth P3ESRs in my study, even though I recently added a modest sub.
 

kotmj

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1141px-Lindos1.svg.png


Look at the curve for 80dB. Doesn't it look like the frequency response of the Harbeth M30 reviewed in this thread?
 

Willem

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No that response was just a function of the measurement method. By the way, Alan Shaw has recently posted a lot on the measurement of low frequencies.
 
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