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God of SINAD vs. reality we get from most available music files

Blumlein 88

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It wouldn’t be hard to hide an opamp between the plates and package it all inside a glass tube, if that’s what people want to buy… :)
Oh they admitted it was solid state, but wanted everyone to assume it was some great discrete circuit. It in fact was just opamps. Which they called Analog Modules. They put them inside this big plastic cover and filled it with epoxy. This was late 1970s to early 1980s. Like this.
1660707910411.jpeg
 

theREALdotnet

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They put them inside this big plastic cover and filled it with epoxy.

Does anyone know what’s inside PS Audio’s ”gain cell” plastic modules? I’m guessing a Jones/Gilbert mixer of sorts, for voltage controlled amplification?
 
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Deleted member 50971

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So if I’m getting the gist of this, is this a fair statement;

The best our gear can do is passthrough what it’s given, IE: the music.

Would that be achievable by gear with the same SINAD as the music, or would it take transparent gear for this to happen?
 
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the signal. Versus adding noise and distortion to it
Thanks. So a SINAD (the sum of our gear) equivalent to the music or greater will accomplish this?

What I’m getting at is we can have this great measuring gear, but if the musics SINAD is 70 it appears that it’s wasted. Which I believe is @pma point.
 
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Not that I don’t want great measuring gear because I do.
 

restorer-john

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So, how can you possibly assign a SINAD to an original work. It is by definition "the work". Perhaps you mean dynamic range, or something of that sort?

It's ASR. They'd assign a SINAD score to a hamburger if they could.
 

GXAlan

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It's ASR. They'd assign a SINAD score to a hamburger if they could.

In-N-Out = 140dB SINAD
- CALIFORNIA TRANSPARENCY IN SUPPLY CHAIN

- Vertically integrated
"From the early days, Harry and Esther were keen to keep as many aspects of the business in-house as they could. They butchered their own meat, started a wholesaling firm to stock up on paper supplies and used their own construction crew to build new stores. "

"It cuts out an estimated 6% to 10% of total costs by owning most of its properties—many bought years ago—and not paying rent."

"the long-standing In-N-Out rule that all new restaurants fall within a day’s drive from the nearest warehouse, so meat and other ingredients stay fresh."
(nothing is ever frozen, only transported via refrigerated truck)

- The Freshest, Friendliest Fast Food
"In-N-Out sources all of its own beef, individually inspecting every chuck that it receives. In-N-Out employs in-house butchers to break down and grind its meat, and forms patties in-house, maintaining absolute control over the patty-making process."

"In-N-Out stores don’t even feature freezers, microwaves or heat lamps"

"In-N-Out is able to attract, and retain, talent by paying much higher wages than competitors, and providing better benefits. In-N-Out associates have always made at least $2-3 above minimum wage, and in 2012 store managers made more than $120,000 on average, compared to a median food service manager salary of $48,000 per year."
 

DonH56

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It's ASR. They'd assign a SINAD score to a hamburger if they could.
Seems harsh. I agree with @j_j though suppose you could derive SNR from looking at the noise in the silence between notes, or takes. But why...

Besides, hamburger is a mixed-up mess with unknown condiments. Next you'll be asking the SINAD of hot dogs (shudder). Maybe a steak... I'll volunteer to test that one. :)
 

Blumlein 88

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Seems harsh. I agree with @j_j though suppose you could derive SNR from looking at the noise in the silence between notes, or takes. But why...

Besides, hamburger is a mixed-up mess with unknown condiments. Next you'll be asking the SINAD of hot dogs (shudder). Maybe a steak... I'll volunteer to test that one. :)
I think I already mentioned earlier in the thread looking at lead ins/outs that don't appear faded, 70 db is about the best recording dynamic range I can come up with. That is a total measure though. One in the 3-5 khz range is 10-12 db lower.
 
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pma

pma

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I think I already mentioned earlier in the thread looking at lead ins/outs that don't appear faded, 70 db is about the best recording dynamic range I can come up with. That is a total measure though. One in the 3-5 khz range is 10-12 db lower.

I tend to agree. The special file I posted here


is about that. But it is not a "normal" music recording.
 

DonH56

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j_j

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I think I already mentioned earlier in the thread looking at lead ins/outs that don't appear faded, 70 db is about the best recording dynamic range I can come up with. That is a total measure though. One in the 3-5 khz range is 10-12 db lower.


Well, then. You have a good point. Let's start from the noise floor of the atmosphere, which is in the neighborhood of 6 to 8 dB SPL flat weighted 20-20k.

You can't get rid of that, unless you get rid of the atmosphere, and there are both physics and biological difficulties in that route.

If you have an average loudness orchestra, even in the quietest, no-audience venue in existence, maybe you get 84dB or so of dynamic range. Of course, we are not taking into account the human sensitivity to the noise floor (many years ago, with a well-known mastering guy, I did a perceptual SNR measurement in ERB's, but it never got submitted for publication thanks to a failing AT&T).

But sound is an interesting beast. At 120dB, sound transmission is nonlinear enough to measure distortions over the natural noise floor. at 140dB, any presumption of linearity (along with any inner hair cells in your cochlea :( ) goes POOF out the door. Of course, this is frequency sensitive.

If you need some evidence to that, air pressure at sea level is approximately 101kpa, and at 10,000 feet is approximately 70kpa. That's a signal of 101-70= 31kpa.

SPL reference is 0.0002 pa (note, not kpa). So 31000 (pa)/.00o02 (pa) = 1550000000 amplitude ratio. That's 183dB SPL, which is beyond earsplitting. Of course, that's not a problem because the spectrum is in microHz or so.

So, there are a variety of issues to be considered, but air is a limited medium, as is an atmosphere
 
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