Genelec 8361A Review (Powered Monitor)

[maxijazz]

GLM can't do any real form of multisub bass management which is a serious limitation for a domestic system, especially at the price.

A nonGLM multisub system like miniDSP+MSO or Dirac ART can significantly outperform GLM.

In manual for GLM 5 i found following...

7.14 Level-Aligning Multiple Subwoofers Reproducing the Same Signal

When several subwoofers reproduce the same audio channels, the low frequency output by
those subwoofers will sum and elevate the total output level. An example of this situation is when
subwoofers are daisy-chained to reproduce the same sum signal or LFE signal. After AutoCal and
AutoPhase, the output levels of all the subwoofers reproducing the same signal must be adjusted
down. This can happen automatically when you set the same Subwoofer Group ID to the
subwoofers reproducing same signals.
[...]
Level correction for subwoofers is only required if they are reproducing the same audio channels.
[...]
If subwoofers are used so that the left subwoofer is only reproducing the left channel and the right
subwoofer is only reproducing the right channel, level corrections are not needed, and then the
Subwoofer Group ID should be set to ‘None’.

Then there is some descriptio of what the Subwoofer Group ID is:

7.17.8.4 Subwoofer Group ID

Subwoofer Group ID is a very powerful method of enabling the compensation of multiple
subwoofers sharing the same set of input channels of audio. The Subwoofer Group ID is assigned
by the user on the GLM Group Definition page pop-up for each subwoofer. Once this is done, run
GLM AutoCal and the Subwoofer Groups will take effect. The Subwoofer Group concept supports
up to six subwoofers working together on one audio channel set, and this makes daisy-chaining of
subwoofers to increase the low frequency output capacity easily and quickly.

I am not sure how using different Subwoofer Group ID for different subwoofers would work, since there is no more explanation in the manual. I don't have Genelec subs to play with that feature and learn myself. If one needs it, then maybe FAQ pages or Genelec support would be a help?
All in all, basic use of multiple subs that should server majority of users, is described in manual.
Basics bass and LFE management is also described, but i deffered from citing it here. One needs it, one reads the manual.

 

[Tovarich007]

I agree about the aesthetic challenge of the W371A's. A hurdle for home use, that many of us just can't negotiate!! Pity!

Well, the W371 wasn't designed for home use. it's primarily a device for studios. Of course, you can use it at home, but don't complain about its size or aesthetics.
I admit it looks quite plain,not beautiful at all, but it ain't a priority for pro buyers.

I would be glad if Genelec could offer a subwoofer in the format like the W371A but smaller and in the range of 2000 €. My idea is to let a genelec subwoofer carry a THREE-Series speakers piggyback but the shape of the smaller subwoofers makes it impossible or it will look just plain stupid.

I don't this price point is realistic, considering the high prices of the "normal" Genelec subs yet.
Don't forget the W371 isn't a pure sub, but a bass/low mids cardioïd calibrated reinforcement and diffusion device.
So I guess a reduced scale one would be more pricey, if ever produced (I have no clue about such a project)

 

[Sancus]

In manual for GLM 5 i found following...

Sure, I know what the manual says. You can(obviously) use more than one subwoofer *in general*. But GLM doesn't do real multi-sub, by which I mean, setting delay, gain, and EQ filters separately and *differently* for each sub to achieve smooth bass overall. That is what MSO & Dirac DLBC do.

That doesn't make GLM bad, but it is a limitation. For one sub, it doesn't matter either.

 

[maxijazz]

Sure, I know what the manual says. You can(obviously) use more than one subwoofer *in general*. But GLM doesn't do real multi-sub, by which I mean, setting delay, gain, and EQ filters separately and *differently* for each sub to achieve smooth bass overall. That is what MSO & Dirac DLBC do.

That doesn't make GLM bad, but it is a limitation. For one sub, it doesn't matter either.

Well, i believe, that (per how i uderstand what manual says), you get each sub individually adjusted in 2.2 configuration (if you follow cited recommendation).
I guess, that for multichannel, you must use different Subwoofer Group ID for each subwoofer to get the individual adjustments. But that is not described or explained in details.

PS. I am in a search for a subwoofer that will serve LFE channel in 5.1 setup.

 

[Sancus]

Well, i believe, that (per how i uderstand what manual says), you get each sub individually adjusted in 2.2 configuration (if you follow cited recommendation).
I guess, that for multichannel, you must use different Subwoofer Group ID for each subwoofer to get the individual adjustments. But that is not described or explained in details.

PS. I am in a search for a subwoofer that will serve LFE channel in 5.1 setup.

Do you understand what multisub is? It's not having more than one subwoofer in general. It's having multiple subs that play the same signal, not different signals.

Like I said, GLM can do more than 1 sub but it will not optimize them to play together. It behaves a bit like Dirac with no DLBC or ART, just measuring and EQing each sub on its own. It sets phase for each sub to match specific monitor.

If you just need 1 sub for LFE none of this matters. It's more for bass managed setups where 2+ subs play the low bass from all channels.

 

[maxijazz]

Do you understand what multisub is? It's not having more than one subwoofer in general. It's having multiple subs that play the same signal, not different signals.

Like I said, GLM can do more than 1 sub but it will not optimize them to play together. It behaves a bit like Dirac with no DLBC or ART, just measuring and EQing each sub on its own. It sets phase for each sub to match specific monitor.

If you just need 1 sub for LFE none of this matters. It's more for bass managed setups where 2+ subs play the low bass from all channels.

Thank you. You meant a specific usecase for multi-sub configuration. Duly noted.
Does Art or DLBC support Double Bass Array configurations?

 

[Sancus]

Thank you. You meant a specific usecase for multi-sub configuration. Duly noted.
Does Art or DLBC support Double Bass Array configurations?

DBA requires a minimum of 8 subwoofers so no. But it's pretty easy to manually calculate the delays and levels for DBA so you only need a miniDSP or similar to implement it. And at that point you could have any room correction system treat it as a single subwoofer.

Dirac ART is (sort of) a more practical and advanced version of a DBA, instead of calculating fixed delays and levels and using half your subwoofers for the interference wave, it calculates it dynamically with measurements of your room and uses all of your speakers and subwoofers to generate the interference waves.

This is very off-topic for this thread though, I would ask further questions about that in more appropriate threads like Dirac ART, Subwoofer Comparison, etc.

 

[Dgob]

Well, the W371 wasn't designed for home use. it's primarily a device for studios. Of course, you can use it at home, but don't complain about its size or aesthetics.
I admit it looks quite plain,not beautiful at all, but it ain't a priority for pro buyers.


I don't this price point is realistic, considering the high prices of the "normal" Genelec subs yet.
Don't forget the W371 isn't a pure sub, but a bass/low mids cardioïd calibrated reinforcement and diffusion device.
So I guess a reduced scale one would be more pricey, if ever produced (I have no clue about such a project)

Don't 'complain'?

 

[Dgob]

2 x 8351b - $10000
2 x w371a - $20000
1 x 8341b - $4000
1 x 7382A - $12000
___________________

$46000

I dunno, I think I could have more fun with that money. I’m a little jaded now. I just put a stereo pair of homepods in the livingroom for my wife and am thinking that they sound far too close for comfort to my 2 channel setup. I think my Genelecs are casting pearls before my 57 yo swine ears, lol.

I know the price tag seems high. However, when you consider what sonic gifts the proud owner can appreciate, it seems a true bargain. This all the more so when we remember the price tag for a passive speaker (without amplification, subs, cable etc) such as the Hart Audio D&W Aural Pleasure.

 

[Sam Ash]

Do you understand what multisub is? It's not having more than one subwoofer in general. It's having multiple subs that play the same signal, not different signals.

Like I said, GLM can do more than 1 sub but it will not optimize them to play together. It behaves a bit like Dirac with no DLBC or ART, just measuring and EQing each sub on its own. It sets phase for each sub to match specific monitor.

If you just need 1 sub for LFE none of this matters. It's more for bass managed setups where 2+ subs play the low bass from all channels.

Any idea if GLM allows the manual tweaking of each sub in a multi-sub configuration in terms of phase and level? The fact that you recommend an outboard DSP tells me that it is not possible to do that within GLM - is that right?

 

[Blockader]

Any idea if GLM allows the manual tweaking of each sub in a multi-sub configuration in terms of phase and level? The fact that you recommend an outboard DSP tells me that it is not possible to do that within GLM - is that right?

Level, yes.
Phase, no.(I think it does phase align subs automatically so you do not have to)
Crossover frequency, no.

 

[Sam Ash]

Level, yes.
Phase, no.(I think it does phase align subs automatically so you do not have to)
Crossover frequency, no.

Thanks for clarifying, I guess an outboard DSP would be the best way forward.

@Sancus - Do you listen to music using one of the matrix codecs? - 90% of the time, I listen to music on a 7.1 configuration via DPLIIx. I prefer it to stereo.

 

[hege]

Level, yes.
Phase, no.(I think it does phase align subs automatically so you do not have to)
Crossover frequency, no.

2 out of 3 wrong:

Phase = Delay, so yes
Crossover yes (50-100hz every 5hz steps)

Every setting is customizable for each and every individual speaker/subwoofer. (Of course for correct results you need external measurement)

 

[Blockader]

2 out of 3 wrong:

Phase = Delay, so yes
Crossover yes (50-100hz every 5hz steps)

Every setting is customizable for each and every individual speaker/subwoofer. (Of course for correct results you need external measurement)

Yeah I forgot to correct myself about the crossover(I did not know it existed, I just found it 20 minutes ago or so) Where do you change the delay of the subwoofer though?

 

[hege]

Yeah I forgot to correct myself about the crossover(I did not know it existed, I just found it 20 minutes ago or so) Where do you change the delay of the subwoofer though?

Same place where you adjust any speaker level etc?

 

[Sam Ash]

W371 + 8361 operates differently than 8381. They have different sound characteristics.
We have discussed this before: 8381 is designed to be a high SPL speaker.

@Pearljam5000 The equilavent of high SPL version of W371+8361 is Electrovoice MTS-6154. Both are cardioid point source speakers. It is louder than anything Genelec ever designed, while also being cardoid and point source.

@Blockader - The MTS-6154 seems to be designed for environments that need very high spl. I presume the 8361+W371 combo would be better in terms of fidelity. Have you had a chance to hear both?

 

[Sam Ash]

2 out of 3 wrong:

Phase = Delay, so yes
Crossover yes (50-100hz every 5hz steps)

Every setting is customizable for each and every individual speaker/subwoofer. (Of course for correct results you need external measurement)

@hege - Thank you for that clarification, much appreciated. So just to confirm, the following attributes can be adjusted via GLM for every speaker/Sub:-

- Levels
- Delay
- Crossover

Out of interest, what is the max delay allowed? Any idea?

 

[hege]

@hege - Thank you for that clarification, much appreciated. So just to confirm, the following attributes can be adjusted via GLM for every speaker/Sub:-

- Levels
- Delay
- Crossover

Out of interest, what is the max delay allowed? Any idea?

All there in the manual:

"The adjustment range for the time-of-flight is from 0 ms (no additional delay) to 45…200 ms, depending on the product."

 

[mkt]

More off-topic, but delay looks separate from phase

 

[RobL]

I know the price tag seems high. However, when you consider what sonic gifts the proud owner can appreciate, it seems a true bargain. This all the more so when we remember the price tag for a passive speaker (without amplification, subs, cable etc) such as the Hart Audio D&W Aural Pleasure.

Well, I’m not saying that they aren’t worth the money. For professional applications, spending $50 or $100k on equipment makes perfect sense to me. I buy expensive equipment for my business as well. You need the right tools do accomplish the job properly. But for personal use…that sub sell for CAD$17k here in Canada…for an LFE channel? I have a pair of 8361A’s and enjoy them very much but even they’re probably much more than I needed to spend to get an enjoyable musical experience at home. YMMV