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Genelec 8330A Review (Studio Monitor)

Frgirard

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Yes, and the difference is probably that the dsp crossover in 8330 has slightly better performance with higher order crossover slopes than the analog active crossover in 8030c . I would also guess that the 8330 has the same tpa 3118 amplifier thats inside the 8030c.

Both of those loudspeakers are very good performers distortion-wise when you think about how small they really are.
The distortion measurements by Amirm are made with only one loudspeaker. With two loudspeakers in a normal listeningroom with some roomgain, you should get about 6-12 dB higher SPL , in the lower frequencies.

Just looking at the measurements, one can get the impression that both loudspeaker models should sound about the same. Thats not true - feeding the 8330 dsp crossover directly with a good digital signal would sound slightly cleaner .

I would say that the price is right for both 8030c and 8330 , regarding sound quality.
In normal listening room, are you shure?
 

HooStat

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Is anybody using two 7350 subs with their 8330s? I was considering a system with a pair of 8330 and a pair of 7350. I could do a single 7360, but it looks like with GLM 4.1 you can phase align each sub with a monitor, and then do the room calibration. It sounds like this might be a little better. I don't care about 20 Hz output, but I would like what I do get to be as smooth as possible. Listening distance is about 8' but at modest levels (75-80 dB).
 

Tangband

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Is anybody using two 7350 subs with their 8330s? I was considering a system with a pair of 8330 and a pair of 7350. I could do a single 7360, but it looks like with GLM 4.1 you can phase align each sub with a monitor, and then do the room calibration. It sounds like this might be a little better. I don't care about 20 Hz output, but I would like what I do get to be as smooth as possible. Listening distance is about 8' but at modest levels (75-80 dB).
With such a low listeninglevel, I think two 7350 should be enough . I would recommend placing the two subwoofers on the inside of each L/R speaker, and at the same wall. This alternative is apparently better sounding than using only one 7350.
 

lappy

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Which parameters of a speaker determines it's qualities at low volume listening? I have replaced a pair of Harbeth SHL5 Plus with a pair of 8330 and a 7350 subwoofer and I must give the Harbeths credit: they are phenomenal at low volumes, miles ahead of the Genelecs in enjoyment and clarity. So I thought this maybe could be tweaked a bit with GLM...any suggestions?
 

Marc v E

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Which parameters of a speaker determines it's qualities at low volume listening? I have replaced a pair of Harbeth SHL5 Plus with a pair of 8330 and a 7350 subwoofer and I must give the Harbeths credit: they are phenomenal at low volumes, miles ahead of the Genelecs in enjoyment and clarity. So I thought this maybe could be tweaked a bit with GLM...any suggestions?
My best guess would be that at low level listening our hearing is less sensitive to certain frequencies. In other words the solution would be to apply eq where I would expect you need to apply a loudness curve: more treble and more bass.
 

Walter

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Which parameters of a speaker determines it's qualities at low volume listening? I have replaced a pair of Harbeth SHL5 Plus with a pair of 8330 and a 7350 subwoofer and I must give the Harbeths credit: they are phenomenal at low volumes, miles ahead of the Genelecs in enjoyment and clarity. So I thought this maybe could be tweaked a bit with GLM...any suggestions?
Basically a smiley curve like the old loudness circuits--increase the bass and treble (or decrease the midrange). Google Fletcher-Munson if you are interested in learning more.
 

lappy

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My best guess would be that at low level listening our hearing is less sensitive to certain frequencies. In other words the solution would be to apply eq where I would expect you need to apply a loudness curve: more treble and more bass.
If, true then the Harbeths for some reason are more pronounced in these regions at low volumes. Wonder how they achieve that....
Basically a smiley curve like the old loudness circuits--increase the bass and treble (or decrease the midrange). Google Fletcher-Munson if you are interested in learning more.
Yes, I understand that, but why/how would that curve form at low volume? The SHL5 Plus does not have that kind of behavior at normal listening levels.
 

Marc v E

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If, true then the Harbeths for some reason are more pronounced in these regions at low volumes. Wonder how they achieve that....

Yes, I understand that, but why/how would that curve form at low volume? The SHL5 Plus does not have that kind of behavior at normal listening
The Harbeths do have a +10db from 15000-20000khz and -5 to -10db in response from 10000khz to 15000Khz. I would start to replicate either one and see if you like it better.
 

Tangband

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In Genelec's website, both, the 8030 and 8330 are said to have "Active crossovers". They don't use the term "DSP crossover". They are really different?
There is a digital active crossover in 8330 and an analog active crossover in 8030.
This is a real audible difference .
 

xaviescacs

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There is a digital active crossover in 8330 and an analog active crossover in 8030.
This is a real audible difference .
I won't be able to listen to both, and in any case my ear isn't trained at all, so my preference would mean nothing. Hence, I have to guide myself by the data available. In Genelec's site, FR on axis looks perfect in the crossover region in both speakers, but directivity is worst on the 8330 on that region. The 8030 has some other flaws as well, but in the > 8kHz region.

8330_draw.png
8030_draw.png


Amir's measurements here are not identical to Genelec's but do show the same directivity issue on the 8330, which causes the score to be significantly worse.

I don't know how much the crossover can affect directivity though.

There is also a slight bump in the woofer response in the 8330 that is smoother in the 8030.

P.S.: Why we don't have a Python library to substract spinoramas from two speakers to compare them?
 

dominikz

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I don't know how much the crossover can affect directivity though.
It can, and significantly so.
P.S.: Why we don't have a Python library to substract spinoramas from two speakers to compare them?
Not exactly what you are after, but perhaps the amazing web resource from @pierre will be helpful: compare CEA2034 (Genelec 8030C vs 8330A).
You can use drop down menus to compare various plots, and you can even compare EQ-ed variants ("Version").
 
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xaviescacs

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Not exactly what you are after, but perhaps the amazing web resource from @pierre will be helpful: compare CEA2034 (Genelec 8030C vs 8330A).
You can use drop down menus to compare various plots, and you can even compared EQ-ed variants ("Version").
I knew that, it's really nice. Thanks for the link. In fact my comment was a veiled suggestion to @pierre to separate the calculation part as a standalone library, separated from the webpage, and add nice capabilities as the possibility to substract spinoramas. :) I don't have time for it, and talking is cheap, but it would be really nice to have a ASR Python library were everybody could add their audio related functions...
 

pierre

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I knew that, it's really nice. Thanks for the link. In fact my comment was a veiled suggestion to @pierre to separate the calculation part as a standalone library, separated from the webpage, and add nice capabilities as the possibility to substract spinoramas. :) I don't have time for it, and talking is cheap, but it would be really nice to have a ASR Python library were everybody could add their audio related functions...

Hello,

the code is open source. Pull requests are welcome.
There is a python library src/spinorama
and a template for generating the website in js/css/html: src/website

The python part is not really designed to add new features but it could be refactored easily to do so. As you would expect there are functions loading various formats, computations on this data (from F3 to Harman score, cea2034 ...) and functions to generates graphs. The execution is distributed across machines/cores via ray.

Open feature requests on github if you have ideas of what you would like to be able to do.

Note: you can subtract 2 spinoramas already in the compare tab (choose CEA2034 with splitted views in the drop down menu)

Screenshot 2022-06-07 at 13.55.34.png
 

xaviescacs

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Thanks for your answer. Great work!
Note: you can subtract 2 spinoramas already in the compare tab (choose CEA2034 with splitted views in the drop down menu)
Great!! Thanks!! Didn't notice that before.
the code is open source. Pull requests are welcome.
There is a python library src/spinorama
and a template for generating the website in js/css/html: src/website
:)
The python part is not really designed to add new features but it could be refactored easily to do so. As you would expect there are functions loading various formats, computations on this data (from F3 to Harman score, cea2034 ...) and functions to generates graphs. The execution is distributed across machines/cores via ray.
I looked with some care the code some month ago and I think it's perfect for what it is right know. It's not a minor effort...
Open feature requests on github if you have ideas of what you would like to be able to do.
I was thinking about a broader approach, like a library with audio functions in general: speakers, electronics, engineering, statistics on blind tests...

It would be nice to have all data about speakers and electronics as pandas datasets to be able to quickly perform some data analysis, like comparing speakers by the slope of the linear model of the in-room response.

It could be the library everybody in the audio community would be using: amateurs, reviewers, teachers, students...

At some point, I don't see the benefit of posting the pictures here on the reviews, and it would be very nice just to embed or link to plots made by this libraries from the data, so all plots would be identical, all reviews would potentially have the same plots... I don't know, I miss the 3D balloons in the 8030 review and it's a bit absurd we can't have them as we have the data.

One can think of thousands of concrete functionals, right? I don't know... generate an audio signal sample (pink noise or whatever is appropriate) for a given frequency response to be able to "hear" the differences... be able to subtract the data to then plot it to be able to get, for instance, a difference of horizontal globe... calculate the SPL of a headphone from the input voltage without having to enter its sensitivity because it's already on the library... Also, there could be Jupyter notebooks of analysis made here on ASR about speakers tests or audibility...

I know, all of this is beyond the capabilities of a single person working in spare time, just some random wishful thoughts. Moreover, I'm far from being an expert not even an educated person in audio, so I'm not in position to say what would be useful or make sense and what not.
 

Tangband

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I won't be able to listen to both, and in any case my ear isn't trained at all, so my preference would mean nothing. Hence, I have to guide myself by the data available. In Genelec's site, FR on axis looks perfect in the crossover region in both speakers, but directivity is worst on the 8330 on that region. The 8030 has some other flaws as well, but in the > 8kHz region.

View attachment 211430View attachment 211431

Amir's measurements here are not identical to Genelec's but do show the same directivity issue on the 8330, which causes the score to be significantly worse.

I don't know how much the crossover can affect directivity though.

There is also a slight bump in the woofer response in the 8330 that is smoother in the 8030.

P.S.: Why we don't have a Python library to substract spinoramas from two speakers to compare them?
Those graphs only show the timbre voicing of the speakers. Both are very good and better than most passive speakers, regardless of price.
There are also other things that matters for soundquality.

1. Making the crossover in digital domain in 8330 you have almost zero worsening of the sound, you can also have 24dB/oct or 36 dB/oct crossover in a blink of an eye without any worsening of the sound, where an analog active crossover needs more ( twice or more ) analog IC:s and capacitors to do this.
To put it shortly - a dsp crossover done right sounds more transparent than analog IC:s, and capacitors in the signal path such as in an analog active crossover.

Im writing this so people not start to believe that the 8030c is better sounding than 8330 , just because it shows slightly better directivity in Amirms review. Theres a lot of things that matters and shows up in the sound of a loudspeaker.

2. Digital connection is possible in 8330. This means feeding the dsp crossover directly with a digital signal. The sound gets slightly clearer scipping a D/A and A/D conversion. This is where highend audio begins and its the future of really good sound, keeping the signal digital as long as possible in the chain.
 
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