Confused between various supposedly "similar" Genelecs

[hashhar]

I've been looking for active studio monitors for my 2.0/1 desktop setup for PC listening.

I've mostly boiled down the list to Genelec, Neumann and some Kali models.

When looking at Genelec I see they have basically 4 product lines:

- 8000s (8010, 8020, 8030 ...)
- The Ones (8331, 8341, 8351 ...)
- SAM (8320, 8330, 8340 ...)
- Gs for Home Audio (One, Two, Three ...)

Of them it seems something under 300mm high is the largest that might appear good for a PC setup.

That trims down the list to:

8030c (8000s), 8331a (The Ones), 8330a (SAM) and G Three (Gs).

The Gs and 8000s it seems are exactly the same but with different inputs.

That basically means I need to compare 8030c, 8330a and 8331a (that's the order of their prices).

Acoustically I'm unable to make out much differences other than the SPL and bass extension. The on-axis seems almost equivalent otherwise.

Can you help me with how they might differ acoustically or should I get the 8030c + a sub and call it a day?

I'd not be using GLM and instead PEQ on a Wiim Ultra so if GLM is the only benefit to the SAM series (83xx) then it's not personally useful to me.

 

[Mort]

should I get the 8030c + a sub and call it a day?

Pretty much. I doubt you'd need much DSP nearfield.

 

[Ellebob]

8030, G 1acoustically. G Three has different inputs as you noted and the ability to turn off the LED. The 8330 is basically an 8030 with DSP and can use GLM. So a better model

The 8331is a different animal. It is a 3 way speaker with a coaxial mid-range/tweeter. A different sound than the other models. So, not acoustically the same. It is better than the other models but costs more as well. It would be my top choice if money wasn't a factor.

We carry all these models where I work.
Kali definitely wins bang for the buck and the law of diminishing is in effect as the others are twice the price or more. I own the Kali IN-5.

Between 8030 and KH120 II, I like them both but if I had to choose I would go with the 8030. I just think it sounds better. Measurement wise the KH120 II is more neutral but I like the sound, imaging and soundstage better on the Genelec. YMMV. Both are great choices.

 

[Ziltoe]

8000s vs Gs

I would consider DSP necessary, even in a nearfield scenario. 8030s with the Wiim Ultra should work well.

 

[Madlop26]

I have a pair 8010A paired with a sub at my job desktop and what Amir mentioned "a taste of what I call sonic perfection" holds true, I listened at low or mid volume, there is not a day that they do not put a smile in my face, near field listening is magical my friend (then the soulless part of my brain replies, Duh, no room mods, of course has to sound good). By the way they can sound loud too, if you don't plan to run occasional parties with them, I do not see the necessity to go bigger IMO

 

[kemmler3D]

If money is not a problem go for the 8331. It will tend to sound a bit smoother in room due to better vertical dispersion.

That said, I have 8030 + sub as my desktop setup and as far as I can tell the only problems I need to solve are acoustic treatment and messing with sub phase a bit.

 

[Multicore]

I've been looking for active studio monitors for my 2.0/1 desktop setup for PC listening.

I've mostly boiled down the list to Genelec, Neumann and some Kali models.

When looking at Genelec I see they have basically 4 product lines:

- 8000s (8010, 8020, 8030 ...)
- The Ones (8331, 8341, 8351 ...)
- SAM (8320, 8330, 8340 ...)
- Gs for Home Audio (One, Two, Three ...)

Of them it seems something under 300mm high is the largest that might appear good for a PC setup.

That trims down the list to:

8030c (8000s), 8331a (The Ones), 8330a (SAM) and G Three (Gs).

The Gs and 8000s it seems are exactly the same but with different inputs.

That basically means I need to compare 8030c, 8330a and 8331a (that's the order of their prices).

Acoustically I'm unable to make out much differences other than the SPL and bass extension. The on-axis seems almost equivalent otherwise.

Can you help me with how they might differ acoustically or should I get the 8030c + a sub and call it a day?

I'd not be using GLM and instead PEQ on a Wiim Ultra so if GLM is the only benefit to the SAM series (83xx) then it's not personally useful to me.

I don't think you are confused, judging from this post. You got it figured out. With or without GLM. And the Ones have a radiation pattern that makes the sound less dependent on room and listening position. What's right for you depends on your needs, situation and constraints.

 

[hashhar]

Thanks a lot everyone for answering and explaining what the differences might be and your personal experiences. It was very helpful.

For future readers here's the most concise summary I could make.

8000s (8010a, 8020d, 8030c ...) and G (One, Two, Three ...)​

Both series are exactly the same except for additional "home" focused inputs on the G's and some cosmetic differences like being able to turn off the lights on the G's. Pick whichever suits your use-case - sound is the same.
These have boundary eq built-in ("Room Response Correction").

SAM 2-Way (8320a, 8330a, 8340a ...)​

This adds a DSP crossover. GLM (network control + room EQ + phase/delay correction etc.) capability is also there but you need buy a GLM Kit which costs extra. There's also digital inputs added (AES/EBU) and a digital output (AES/EBU) for daisy chaining in higher models (8330a onwards).
They have marginally higher bass extension compared to equivalently sized-8000s.

The Ones (8331a, 8341a, 8351b ...) - SAM 3-Way Coaxial​

These are 3-way and coaxial (point-source) - the biggest difference from the other series. Also these are Genelec's flagships.
In addition to what the 2-Way SAMs have these provide boundary eq dip-switches, stored settings from GLM, much better directivity and response and higher SPL.

Note that while you can add external DSP to 8000s it might not be as capable as the speaker specific DSP.
The jump from 8000s or 2-Way SAMs to The Ones is the biggest jump (both acoustically and financially).
Conclusions are left to the reader to arrive at.

 

[unpluggged]

How did you come to this conclusion

So in my personal opinion there's no good reason to go with the 2-Way SAMs objectively speaking.

from this?

This adds GLM (network control + room EQ + phase/delay correction etc.) capability but you need buy a GLM Kit which costs extra. There's also digital inputs added (AES/EBU) and a digital output (AES/EBU) for daisy chaining in higher models (8330a onwards).
They have marginally higher bass extension compared to equivalently sized-8000s.

The listed improvements more than justify going for DSP-enabled monitors, be it 2-way or 20-way.

 

[hashhar]

How did you come to this conclusion

from this?

The listed improvements more than justify going for DSP-enabled monitors, be it 2-way or 20-way.

DSP can be outside the monitors too.
The 3-way coaxial SAMs are an entirely different and incomparable beast.

So in my head: 8030c + DSP ~= 8330a < 8331a. Specially when you consider that to use the DSP in the 8331a you need to buy ~$300 worth of additional gear which makes the price/performance gap between 8030c + DSP much wider.

 

[unpluggged]

DSP can be outside the monitors too.

If you already have non-DSP-corrected speakers an wish to optimize them, then yes, you can consider adding an external DSP. But it's better to get DSP-enabled speakers in the first place. External DSP adds costs and hassle, it may be not feasible for some use cases, whereas with DSP-enabled speakers any signal that is coming at their input is being processed the same way.

The 3-way coaxial SAMs are an entirely different and incomparable beast.

Yes, that's why I left them out of the equation. I meant to compare similar designs.

8030c + DSP ~= 8330a

Not always. Most external DSP solutions, for instance, are either do not correct the phase at all or do it with limitations, whereas the DSP in the speaker can correct the phase with filters that the manufacturer developed for that particular unit. And analog filters are not phase-linear. There are proprietary DSP systems where the DSP in an external unit does as much corrections as possible for a speaker, but it has to explicitly support that speaker. This is how the Neumann's KH 750 DSP subwoofer works with Neumann analog monitors, for example (I use such a setup myself, and it brings very noticeable improvement).

to use the DSP in the 8331a you need to buy ~$300 worth of additional gear which makes the price/performance gap between 8030c + DSP much wider.

Not so. The DSP in the speaker is always active, it implements the crossovers, linearizes the FR and corrects the phase response. It also implements protections such as DC filtering, driver excursion control, limiters, etc. Only if you want to add room EQ you'd need the additional GLM kit, and it more than worth it, IMO.

 

[hashhar]

Thanks for expanding my knowledge and in such detail. I learnt a lot and have more to read now.

I'll make an edit to clarify this.

 

[hashhar]

A few follow-up questions specifically to you @unpluggged:

Do I need to care about phase corrections if only using 2.0?
Practically speaking what does SAM do for me in a 2.0 setup? I assume things like correcting frequency response for the individual speaker units I have?
Also assuming my external DSP is something good like Dirac how much am I leaving on the table by not getting a SAM?

And in the meantime I ran into these two threads which kind of discuss similar things: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...elec-8030c-a-better-speaker-than-8330a.47378/ and https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...he-genelec-8030c-is-pissing-money-away.47069/

Counterintuitively for my personal use-case and wallet I am starting to more strongly believe that the 8030c offer ME much better value for MY use-case.

 

[Miguelón]

I just think it sounds better. Measurement wise the KH120 II is more neutral but I like the sound, imaging and soundstage better on the Genelec

I think the same, had both side by side at home.

But why? I became a measurement believer some months after joining ASR

Before I was a total subjectivist, but now I wonder why one speaker tend to sound better than other being barely equal...

Of course they have slightly different tonalities but many people thought kH 120 ii to be a little bizarre in for pleasure listening but totally accurate to mix on it

 

[AudioJester]

For GLM capable Genelec speakers, GLM is far superior to any other external DSP system. Even more so when you add a Genelec sub.

What I mean is dont be mistaken that Wiim ultra + 8030 will equal a GLM callibrated 8330

 

[Miguelón]

For GLM capable Genelec speakers, GLM is far superior to any other external DSP system. Even more so when you add a Genelec sub.

What I mean is dont be mistaken that Wiim ultra + 8030 will equal a GLM callibrated 8330

Surely they are, never tried GLM, hope I can find a setup to try. Actual price of 8330 is on my budget, but discouraged by the AES/EBU Inputs...

Do a SPDIF output be ok to transamission or need special cables?

 

[Miley_B]

discouraged by the AES/EBU Inputs...

Do a SPDIF output be ok to transamission or need special cables?

It has balanced analogue XLR in, you don’t have to go in AES/EBU.
I haven’t tried SPDIF into the AES/EBU inputs but I would expect it to work perfectly in a desktop size setup. If it has issues then an impedance transformer is relatively inexpensive and would likely solve the problem provided we’re only talking about a few meters of cable.

WRT the original post, the drivers are aligned at super short distance with the co-ax One as can be seen in the minimum listening distance on this page: https://www.genelec.com/correct-monitors
If you are very close to the monitors then this is worth considering.

 

[JamesYeomans]

FYI: https://support.genelec.com/hc/en-u...ct-my-digital-SAM-monitors-to-S-PDIF-directly

 

[Miguelón]

It has balanced analogue XLR in, you don’t have to go in AES/EBU.
I haven’t tried SPDIF into the AES/EBU inputs but I would expect it to work perfectly in a desktop size setup. If it has issues then an impedance transformer is relatively inexpensive and would likely solve the problem provided we’re only talking about a few meters of cable.

WRT the original post, the drivers are aligned at super short distance with the co-ax One as can be seen in the minimum listening distance on this page: https://www.genelec.com/correct-monitors
If you are very close to the monitors then this is worth considering.

I’m currently listening at 2 m on average, speakers on a floor stand, would GLM worth and work at this distance? Cables are 3 m (10 feet)

POST EDITED: happy to see that kind of spinorama, I think even with a simple XLR analogue connection this worths…

 

[Mort]

I’m currently listening at 2 m on average, speakers on a floor stand, would GLM worth and work at this distance?

Yes, absolutely.

Do you have a Wiim product in your chain? You can try DSP there and see if it's improved. GLM will be better.