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Fosi Audio V3 amplifier discussion

D

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this guy is trying for the 'internet drama views'

he's had a go at Amir, Randy, Darko, Andrew Robinson... anyone who he disagrees with and i guess that why he gets these views and these subs

i think i gave up when he derided Andrew Robinson for being all about 'charts and graphs and measurements'... excuse me? is this the #recoveringaudiophile? the guy who likes ikea doorstops?
Pretty personal accusations aside, what is your explanation to the findings in his video?

Edit: Nothing wrong with having a go at Andrew, Randy, Darko is there? Also if you don't get his thick sarcasm you would misunderstand a lot of his comments. Which is probably the case when he said that Andrew is all about measurements.. Which he obviously is not.;)
 
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Djano

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Pretty personal accusations aside, what is your explanation to the findings in his video?

Edit: Nothing wrong with having a go at Andrew, Randy, Darko is there? Also if you don't get his thick sarcasm you would misunderstand a lot of his comments. Which is probably the case when he said that Andrew is all about measurements.. Which he obviously is not.;)
I agree with you. This is just sarcasm and has no relation to his results.

What I found interesting in his results is primarily the way the Fosi collapses between 45 and 150Hz in his sweep test. This cannot be attributed to the speakers or the room because the same measurements taken with his more traditional amplifier did not show this issue at all. It is, in all likelihood, related to the V3.

What's surprizing is that the Fosi kept up with the Yamaha up to 45Hz.

We discussed this a bit in the video comments. He attributed it to the fact that bass requires more power for the same sound level. So, the Fosi would have shown its limitations here, even though it could handle higher frequencies reasonably well.

The problem with this explanation was that it doesn't account for the fact that the Fosi is as good as the Yamaha at even lower frequencies. We should expect the opposite.

His theory is that the Fosi used up its "reserve for peaks" (these are my approximate words) at these very low frequencies, and therefore it couldn't keep up when the signal reached 45Hz (sweep signal, so rapid). He would have only recovered in more manageable frequencies, starting from 150Hz.

I proposed a test, and he seemed interested. We would need to send a continuous signal in the problematic frequency (eg 45hz). If his hypothesis about low frequencies and the "reserve" is true, then we should observe the dB levels outputted by the Fosi decreasing over time.

What do you think about it?
 
D

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I agree with you. This is just sarcasm and has no relation to his results.

What I found interesting in his results is primarily the way the Fosi collapses between 45 and 150Hz in his sweep test. This cannot be attributed to the speakers or the room because the same measurements taken with his more traditional amplifier did not show this issue at all. It is, in all likelihood, related to the V3.

What's surprizing is that the Fosi kept up with the Yamaha up to 45Hz.

We discussed this a bit in the video comments. He attributed it to the fact that bass requires more power for the same sound level. So, the Fosi would have shown its limitations here, even though it could handle higher frequencies reasonably well.

The problem with this explanation was that it doesn't account for the fact that the Fosi is as good as the Yamaha at even lower frequencies. We should expect the opposite.

His theory is that the Fosi used up its "reserve for peaks" (these are my approximate words) at these very low frequencies, and therefore it couldn't keep up when the signal reached 45Hz (sweep signal, so rapid). He would have only recovered in more manageable frequencies, starting from 150Hz.

I proposed a test, and he seemed interested. We would need to send a continuous signal in the problematic frequency (eg 45hz). If his hypothesis about low frequencies and the "reserve" is true, then we should observe the dB levels outputted by the Fosi decreasing over time.

What do you think about it?
That should do it. But this finding reveals also that we really do not test close enough to real use and people may sometimes not be crazy for hearing differences between amps.
 

restorer-john

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I proposed a test, and he seemed interested. We would need to send a continuous signal in the problematic frequency (eg 45hz). If his hypothesis about low frequencies and the "reserve" is true, then we should observe the dB levels outputted by the Fosi decreasing over time.

What do you think about it?

Dude, the thing is a toy amplifier. It's not meant to be taken seriously as high fidelity, and if anyone does, they need their head read.
 
D

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Dude, the thing is a toy amplifier. It's not meant to be taken seriously as high fidelity, and if anyone does, they need their head read.
Problem is it seems like most take the numbers and run. And place the thing along side other established HiFi amps.

Because of the belief that the review shows the whole thing, you get this mish mash of people praising it with the proof from the reviews and few others reluctant about the performance because.. Well look at it.

Problem is, the amps shortcomings won't reveal themselves with weak tests.
 

TonyJZX

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i'd put it out there that for the vast majority of people who use this in their setups and their music wont really test this amp too much anyway

for most they are well within the performance envelope of this amp

but i mean there's guys even here using it with a $3,000 marantz avp and kef reference 5s etc etc.
 

Djano

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That should do it. But this finding reveals also that we really do not test close enough to real use and people may sometimes not be crazy for hearing differences between amps.
Yes, measurments as currently performed were not able to reveal the whole picture. Test procedure needs to be improved.

That said, it is premature to jump to the conclusion that significant differences truly exist in normal use. Despite the undeniable issue of the V3 test being incomplete, it remains the case that the numerous ABX tests conducted on different amplifiers strongly suggest that differences are generally not perceptible.

Moreover, I think that the issues with the Fosi only became apparent at an unreasonable listening level (I would need to verify this in the video).

Dude, the thing is a toy amplifier. It's not meant to be taken seriously as high fidelity, and if anyone does, they need their head read.
As long as it measures well at your usual listening level, I do not see why it couldn't be taken seriously as high fidelity
It is well known that you should not expect the advertised watts from these companies
But do you think for a simple small setup, where you use less than 10W, you would benefit from going with something else ?
 
D

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Yes, measurments as currently performed were not able to reveal the whole picture. Test procedure needs to be improved.

That said, it is premature to jump to the conclusion that significant differences truly exist in normal use. Despite the undeniable issue of the V3 test being incomplete, it remains the case that the numerous ABX tests conducted on different amplifiers strongly suggest that differences are generally not perceptible.

Moreover, I think that the issues with the Fosi only became apparent at an unreasonable listening level (I would need to verify this in the video).
What is "an unreasonable listening level"?

Does it supply the gain full range or does it not?

People complaining about the loudness war when popular amps compress lots of dB
That's a bit.. Odd..

Well. I guess nothing comes of it and we continue as usual. As long as I have my "retro" A/B beasts I shouldn't care.
 

Djano

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What is "an unreasonable listening level"?
Tests were done at around 100dB, according to the graphs. According to this poll on ASR, only 6% of members listen at more than 90dB. It seems pretty safe to say that 100dB is not reasonable.
Does it supply the gain full range or does it not?
It clearly did not at 100dB. But would it at a reasonable level ? It seems to me that this question is the one that should guide the purchase decision. If you do not benefit from a more expensive device in your typical use case, then there is no objective reason to spend more.
Well. I guess nothing comes of it and we continue as usual. As long as I have my "retro" A/B beasts I shouldn't care.
Why that? I thought a serious issue with measurments currently provided by ASR has been proved here.
In the past, were such problems revealed, and tests procedure were not updated ?

-----

People complaining about the loudness war when popular amps compress lots of dB
That's a bit.. Odd..
I did not understand this part of your message.
 

TonyJZX

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1st point, if you hook a V3 up to klipsh heresys surely you would get stupendous spl

2ndly. there's heaps of amps that are made by traditional manufacturers that would not approach the power of a V3 and yet somehow we dont throw them out with the garbage

people love to move goalposts on these units
 
D

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1st point, if you hook a V3 up to klipsh heresys surely you would get stupendous spl

2ndly. there's heaps of amps that are made by traditional manufacturers that would not approach the power of a V3 and yet somehow we dont throw them out with the garbage

people love to move goalposts on these units
What is your take then on the video from The Scientific Audiophile?
 

titive

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I just ordered one of these based on discussion here to replace a broken (inhereted) Denon, at least temporarily. I have an allo digione pifi set up and need _something_, ideally something decent (which this seems to be!). I would appreciate someone more sophisticated than I am helping me understand a couple things before I open it.
  • Is it powerful enough for a pair of Wharfdale W35? The room has ~4m ceilings and is about 5m x 10m.
  • Is this the kind of thing that I can pair with a similar value chifi tube preamp at some point? That is to say, if I get a rather cheap tube preamp to try out tubes, would upgrading one of the two (preamp/amp) basically mean I'd need to upgrade the other? I know this forum isn't wild about tubes, and I know that stereos are a weakest link thing.
  • Corollary... is it worth just paying $150 for something like an integrated tube amp? It seems like with all the cheaper integrated tube amps, you end up paying for bluetooth and a dac, which I don't need.
Thanks!
 
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Joe Smith

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I just ordered one of these based on discussion here to replace a broken (inhereted) Denon, at least temporarily. I have an allo digione pifi set up and need _something_, ideally something decent (which this seems to be!). I would appreciate someone more sophisticated than I am helping me understand a couple things before I open it.
  • Is it powerful enough for a pair of Wharfdale W35? The room has ~4m ceilings and is about 5m x 10m.
  • Is this the kind of thing that I can pair with a similar value chifi tube preamp at some point? That is to say, if I get a rather cheap tube preamp to try out tubes, would upgrading one of the two (preamp/amp) basically mean I'd need to upgrade the other? I know this forum isn't wild about tubes, and I know that stereos are a weakest link thing.
  • Corollary... is it worth just paying $150 for something like an integrated tube amp? It seems like with all the cheaper integrated tube amps, you end up paying for bluetooth and a dac, which I don't need.
Thanks!
The V3 is a good inexpensive Class D amp that should be fine for your speakers, especially if you use the 48v power supply. Yes, you can pair with a SS or tube preamp and upgrading one would not mean you'd have to upgrade the other. I'm not into tubes but I am currently using mine with an older SS preamp for more inputs, etc. $150 is not much of a bump up for an integrated tube amp, doubtful that you'd get better sound that way, especially if you are not yet sure if the tube sound is right for you. Far cheaper to try an inexpensive tube preamp from the current low-cost camp and see if it does anything for you...

And of course despite all of the talk about power, the Fosi is better suited IMO for moderate volume levels. If you like to listen loud, a larger amp may be where you gravitate down the road.
 

titive

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That's really helpful, thank you.

I bought the V3 and the SUCA T-1 (20% cheaper than the Fosi P1 and reportedly the same build?) I'll order a second set of tubes for some diversity of perspective, and am keeping my eyes open for good deals locally on an older SS unit. (Cash is tight ATM.)
 

mlieber507

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I think an effective PEQ box can have a USB input (like a MiniDSP and just appear as a mass storage device on a PC) or take an SD card loaded with the PEQ details. I am think it can be as simple as a single file - say peq.txt in the root folder - this would be an export from REW or whatever tool. This way its keeps the 'box' super simple not need any knobs but maybe a blue / red light etc (red meaning something wrong with the format of the file) and an on / off switch would be good enough - though obviously it can get more complicated, e.g. 4 different PEQ files and maybe a way to toggle between them.
Equalizer APO in combination with its Peace front end provide this function in software at no cost on a PC
 

gasolin75

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Fox _ Mulder

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Just out of curiosity, how many watts of low distortion audio do you get without a preamp, what voltage are you running you V3 at, what are you driving your V3 with.
Thanks

Unfortunately, I have no way of measuring this and I don't know.

110V. I use the 48/5A power supply.

PC with Windows 11 + Tidal + DAC Topping D10s, Klipcsh speakers
 
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