Expensive AVR With Cheap Source

[Operafan]

Apologies if this has been covered before. I have a Denon AVR X3500H. When my sources are an Xfinity cable box and a Roku Ultra will a better AVR make any difference? I wonder about the logic of a $2000 AVR with a $99 source

 

[DVDdoug]

As far as "basic sound quality" a different AVR doesn't usually make ANY difference with ANY source. But different AVRs will have different EQ/room correction, or more surround channels, or more amplifier power, etc.

Most digital sources are also better than human hearing. Even lossy streaming is usually VERY good and you usually have to A/B very carefully to hear a difference from the uncompressed version, if you can hear a difference at all. (With YouTube, it can be hit-or-miss, depending on the quality of what was uploaded.)

Speakers and headphones are a different story,,, Different speakers or different headphones ALWAYS sound different (better or worse). But with headphones there is almost no correlation between cost and sound quality.

 

[Operafan]

As far as "basic sound quality" a different AVR doesn't usually make ANY difference with ANY source. But different AVRs will have different EQ/room correction, or more surround channels, or more amplifier power, etc.

Most digital sources are also better than human hearing. Even lossy streaming is usually VERY good and you usually have to A/B very carefully to hear a difference from the uncompressed version, if you can hear a difference at all. (With YouTube, it can be hit-or-miss, depending on the quality of what was uploaded.)

Speakers and headphones are a different story,,, Different speakers or different headphones ALWAYS sound different (better or worse). But with headphones there is almost no correlation between cost and sound quality.

Then why does Amir bother to measure DAC performance?

 

[JeremyFife]

If your digital source sends the digital data correctly (and they pretty much all do) then no amount of money will improve that.
You can get different/better user interfaces but they don't change the data.
Perhaps there's some resampling and a different source would be bit-perfect, even so that's probably inaudible.

Short version: your sources are fine.

 

[Mnyb]

Yes a digital source can’t be better than perfect, you send the data correctly and that’s it’s .

I used a raspberry pi as one source for my Meridian hometheater I used to own , performed identically to my expensive Meridian G98DH on for example 2ch 16/44.1 or 24/96. content.

 

[Operafan]

Thanks for all the simple Simon responses

 

[hex168]

Then why does Amir bother to measure DAC performance?

Not to speak for Amir, but a couple of possible reasons occur to me:

• Some designs are broken and need to be identified
• Tech is interesting and is fun to measure, even to a level that is beyond completely transparent. Good engineering can be admired, even when it makes no practical difference.

I think both of those are true.

 

[JeremyFife]

Thanks for all the simple Simon responses

Checking: when you say 'simple Simon ' are you looking for something else, or are you content?

 

[kyuu]

Not to speak for Amir, but a couple of possible reasons occur to me:

• Some designs are broken and need to be identified
• Tech is interesting and is fun to measure, even to a level that is beyond completely transparent. Good engineering can be admired, even when it makes no practical difference.

I think both of those are true.

Possibly what you mean by bullet point number 1, but I believe the reason for measuring DACs in AVRs is basically to ensure that there's sufficient headroom that they aren't bottlenecking the downstream amplifier, whether it's the internal ones or separates connected to the pre-outs. Also you may need headroom to account for DSP. Anything beyond that is basically academic, as what you ultimately hear is dictated by the distortion and noise of the amp and the speaker itself.

 

[kemmler3D]

Then why does Amir bother to measure DAC performance?

Occasionally a DAC performs much worse or much better than you would expect for the money, sometimes they are broken, it's good to keep manufacturers honest in general, etc.

@DVDdoug was (I think) talking about digital sources, i.e. they send digital data to another device like an AVR or DAC. The sources themselves are generally perfect as they're just outputting bits.

Most AVRs and DACs have good enough sound quality that you won't hear any difference between different models.

A long way of saying there is no issue plugging a cheap digital source into any other equipment, all you need it to do is output the correct bits, which basically anything over $5 can do. Interpreting the bits correctly is the job of the more expensive gear.

If you are using the analog outputs of cheap gear there's a chance of losing sound quality, but HDMI / SPDIF / USB are nothing to worry about, unless you go so cheap that "USB" is spelled wrong.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

will a better AVR make any difference?

~With additional EQ and/or room correction if none: (maybe?/yes)
~No change in above: (highly unlikely)
~Much better odds: speaker change TBD (OP not specified)

 

[GXAlan]

Then why does Amir bother to measure DAC performance?

Take a look at my Altitude 32 measurements. It only hits 90 dB SINAD, and I have the option of going with external DACs but it doesn’t matter.

Trinnov Altitude 32 Review

Trinnov Altitude 32 Review and Measurements This is a review and some measurements of a Trinnov Altitude 32. This is an older unit with components that are several generations old. What makes the Altitude 32 different from the Altitude 16 is the ability to use AES/EBU digital outputs for all...

www.audiosciencereview.com

There really isn’t a meaningful difference between cheap and expensive or poorly performing and highly performing DACs. Subtle differences may occasionally be heard (can look at my measurements). Better stated, the amount of money you might spend on a DAC is better spent on speakers or making sure your speakers don’t clip. Measuring DACS is one way to call out marketing claims of superiority which aren’t justified.

1 kHz SINAD is a proxy. If that measures well, the other stuff PROBABLY also measures well. However in and of itself, it’s not that helpful. That’s why you need all the other graphs.

Noise is a big deal. If you have a a tiny bit of noise from 1 channel, and you now have 16 channels of noise… it really adds up.

Adding up sound levels of multiple audio sources

A simple rule for adding up the sound levels is to assign a value between 0 - 3dB to the sound level caused by the loudest sound source.

www.sonitron.be

If you don’t hear noise, you aren’t running out of power for the speakers/volume/distance, you are OK.

Even room correction is overblown *if* you are starting off with good speakers. That is, room correction is essential but the difference between entry level and advanced correction is subtle.

 

[DMill]

For me, finally coming to the realization that spending more does NOT always equal better sound helped. I still spent more than I should on an AVR, but I did it for features and a little extra power and a logo I like, But I knew what I was getting. There are many $99 digital sources that will sound transparent.