Rear speakers - what do they add?

[Robin L]

The question is - when playing a 7.1 mix through a 5.1 system, what does the AVR do?
There are 3 possibilities that I see: drop the rears, drop the surrounds, or mix rears and surrounds in some way.

Never got that far. Didn't have any 7.1 mixes.

 

[Chrispy]

Does it downmix? Or does it just drop 2 of the channels, and if so, which?

I'm pretty sure when playing multi-track through my 3.1 system the AVR just drops the rears and surrounds.

Mostly I'd say there's an existing 5.1 core. What is your source, discs, streaming, or ?

 

[Artsfols]

Difference between 5.1 vs 2.1:
1. Sound envelopment from venue ambience/echoes, audience claps and noises coming out of the side speakers. (Live content)

2. 3D effects from side speakers if studio music content is engineered/mixed by someone.

That’s pretty much it, in my opinion. I enjoyed it for a short period and moved back to 2.1 for music; and used 5.1 primarily for movies.

Hmm. I'm just a leaf twisting in the wind now. lol.

 

[Artsfols]

Mostly I'd say there's an existing 5.1 core. What is your source, discs, streaming, or ?

All of the above, I have 2 or 3 thousand classical CDs, with several dozen SACD, DVD audio. I have about 200 concert DVDs, 50% classical and opera, the rest rock, pop, et cetera. Many of these have multi-channel tracks.
I stream the Berlin Philharmonic, a pop/rock concert streaming service called Qello, a British service called Marquee TV, and I have had the Met Opera HD off and on.
For video entertainment and sports, a wide variety of content.

 

[kyuu]

To each their own. I listen to stereo content with Dolby upmixing about 100% of the time. Whatever negatives in may have in terms of the "soundstage", which is not something I've ever found terribly important, is outweighed by what even an upmixer does. Nevermind actual multichannel mixes.

 

[Artsfols]

To each their own. I listen to stereo content with Dolby upmixing about 100% of the time. Whatever negatives in may have in terms of the "soundstage", which is not something I've ever found terribly important, is outweighed by what even an upmixer does. Nevermind actual multichannel mixes.

If I am listening to a string quartet, to cite one example, being able to differentiate each instrument is critical to enjoyment. Even moreso with orchestral performance.

 

[Robin L]

If I am listening to a string quartet, to cite one example, being able to differentiate each instrument is critical to enjoyment. Even moreso with orchestral performance.

Surround mixes don't sort out the sections in orchestral recordings any more than stereo mixes. And stereo mixes of string quartets are more than good enough. I find that certain kinds of recording techniques, like Decca's microphone tree, do more to separate out elements in orchestra recordings than surround technique.

 

[kyuu]

If I am listening to a string quartet, to cite one example, being able to differentiate each instrument is critical to enjoyment. Even moreso with orchestral performance.

The ability to differentiate between instruments is not how I'd define soundstage.

 

[GD Fan]

All of the above, I have 2 or 3 thousand classical CDs, with several dozen SACD, DVD audio. I have about 200 concert DVDs, 50% classical and opera, the rest rock, pop, et cetera. Many of these have multi-channel tracks.
I stream the Berlin Philharmonic, a pop/rock concert streaming service called Qello, a British service called Marquee TV, and I have had the Met Opera HD off and on.
For video entertainment and sports, a wide variety of content.

Oh man with that many MCh sources you really do need to give it a try. Those albums were recorded and mixed for it. Playing them only 2.1 is falling short.

 

[Chrispy]

All of the above, I have 2 or 3 thousand classical CDs, with several dozen SACD, DVD audio. I have about 200 concert DVDs, 50% classical and opera, the rest rock, pop, et cetera. Many of these have multi-channel tracks.
I stream the Berlin Philharmonic, a pop/rock concert streaming service called Qello, a British service called Marquee TV, and I have had the Met Opera HD off and on.
For video entertainment and sports, a wide variety of content.

Same here for the most part, but probably more multich discs than you have plus am not particularly into classical. Multich mixes based on 4.0 often carry over to SACD and DVD. I'd just have the more comprehensive setup to enjoy all of them, but doubt much of your stuff is 7.1

 

[A Surfer]

Accurate or not, I enjoy the immersion of being in a sound field that is achieved by speakers added to the side and behind me.

I spent decades with great 2 channel systems and 2.2 systems, but I always found it missing something with the direct sound only coming from right in front of me.

 

[Chrispy]

Accurate or not, I enjoy the immersion of being in a sound field that is achieved by speakers added to the side and behind me.

I spent decades with great 2 channel systems and 2.2 systems, but I always found it missing something with the direct sound only coming from right in front of me.

I have had similar experience. You still need to invest in good speaker and room/placement to be effective, too. Sometimes it's better to remain with less, too.

 

[Bruce Morgen]

I'm the outlier here, with a 7.1 system built around a pair of Yamaha processors from the 1980s that were designed to work seamlessly together -- the DSP-1 (mostly for it's numerous ambience settings based on actual music venues) and the DSR-100 Pro (for old-fashioned 5.1 Dolby Pro Logic, the first Dolby iteration to support a center speaker). The two work together very nicely -- Dolby Pro Logic does a surprisingly good job with non-encoded input, and any of the various modes of the DSP-1 can be blended in with that very effectively for both music and movies/TV if done carefully.

 

[Elkerton]

Please pardon my subjective response. Immersion in the sound field and the sense of the loudspeakers disappearing is what I appreciate of having 5 channels playing my some 200 classical titles. The effect is subtle only at first. One might wonder why bother, but in my case, I wish all of my 3,000 CDs were multichannel. Popular program material seems largely artificial to me though I'm sure there are good mixes. I've read that up-mixing of 2 channel is desirable, but the programs in my old AVR belie that. One day...

 

[Deleted member 43957]

Accurate or not, I enjoy the immersion of being in a sound field that is achieved by speakers added to the side and behind me.

... this is one of those things that I only say in my own head... never aloud... and NEVER on ASR... lol.

 

[Bruce Morgen]

... this is one of those things that I only say in my own head... never aloud... and NEVER on ASR... lol.

I harbor no such inhibitions.

 

[A Surfer]

... this is one of those things that I only say in my own head... never aloud... and NEVER on ASR... lol.

It is amazing what getting a little older does for your concern about what others think of what you do. I'm almost 57, hard to believe and I am at that place where I am totally fine with what I'm fine with.

I have a nice Sonos system that allows for me to mix with seperate volume controls a group of speakers that fire towards me from the front, two sides and two rears. Because it is not really multichannel I have to accept that I'm creating my own musical soundscape. I'm sure some people would find it just not what they like, but for me it is pretty darn enjoyable and immersive.

 

[Frank Dernie]

In a 5.1 you first get surrounds, takes 7.1 to get "rears". FWIW.

Therein lay my problem with no satisfactory solution

I started out with rear ambience difference speakers wired to the output of the stereo speakers decades ago then had a Yamaha DSP1 which added ambience via extra 4 corner speakers which were convenient to locate.

When I got a Marantz 7704 surround pre and I chose 5.1 it didn't offer me rears - which I had and were conveniently positioned - just sides, which I have no space or convenient location for.

Then add the requirement that the speakers each need to be equally spaced to a listening position, neither practical in my shaped room nor feasible with a family of 6 such that surround sound will always have to be a bodge for me.

It is better than nothing with film effects but I don't bother to use it for music, not least since 99% of my music is stereo.

 

[amper42]

Multi-channel stereo on a Denon receiver is quite immersive. If you want those rear speakers raging along with your main's it a fun listening session. While I enjoy 7.4.2 with movie soundtracks there's really no reason not to deploy good old 7.4.2 multi-channel stereo for a fun music listening experience.

 

[Artsfols]

The ability to differentiate between instruments is not how I'd define soundstage.

Neither would I. You've just engaged in a faulty syllogism. You can differentiate instruments on a good mono recording, recorded a decent mic setup. Many 1950s recordings are better than 16 track recordings from the 1970s. The instruments of an orchestra are naturally differentiated by frequency band to an extent, and also by timbre and harmonics. But spatial localization or a soundstage also greatly helps to differentiate instruments.