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Elac Uni-Fi 2.0 Review (bookshelf speaker)

joentell

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These posts seems a bit hostile for “chief fun officer.”
For a site claiming to be based on science, you would think that questions and debate would be welcome. I spent a good amount of time to make those videos and to respond here with my thoughts based on my experience with many ELAC speakers.

But it's @amirm's site. He sets the rules and the tone, and I'm here to contribute and abide by those rules and to do so as respectfully as possible. I do hope for the the same level of respect in return.
 

joentell

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So the answer to my question is clear I will repeat the question: do you own these speakers or are they loaners from Elac?

If they are loaners, then I can ask Andrew to get your sample to me since you say it is working fine.
Whether I bought them, or if they were gifted to me, or the company paid me thousands of dollars to take them off their hands, how is that your business? How does my business dealings with any company determine where you get your samples @amirm? You can contact them yourself and do your own deal. That has nothing to do with me.
 

andreasmaaan

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The tweeter has a hard grill so you wouldn't be touching the soft dome at all. The way that concentric driver is setup, the tweeter unit is placed inside of the midrange's voice coil which of course moves up and down. The tweeter unit is centered within the coil using a screw which allows for minor adjustments. If the tweeter gets unseated slightly, it can cause that squeak sound at various frequencies. The tolerances are very tight so even the slightest variation could cause it to rub.

I'm speaking from actual experience having had experience with a "squeaking issue" on the previous Uni-Fi 1.0 model. I've owned over 6-7 pairs so I have an idea. The problematic one was a used one I purchased.

That's very interesting, and I would think probably the best explanation put forward.
 

joentell

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Bottom line is that the 600hz resonance problem was only audible/measurable on @amirm's single review unit. According to @amirm, the resonance is not audible in the nearfield recordings I did on my Uni-Fi 2.0 left, center, and right speaker (played at much louder volumes than I would normally play them.) It also wasn't audible on the other speaker that the person did not send over for review.

My best guess is the midrange is contacting the tweeter housing as it might have gotten dislodged slightly during shipping causing that resonance around 600hz.

Reviewing two speakers instead of one increases the chances of finding unit variation or issues with a single speaker.

That's all I have to contribute here. I've invited Andrew Jones to respond and I'll leave that up to him.

I hope I've provided some useful insight. ✌️
 

MZKM

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Whether I bought them, or if they were gifted to me, or the company paid me thousands of dollars to take them off their hands, how is that your business? How does my business dealings with any company determine where you get your samples @amirm? You can contact them yourself and do your own deal. That has nothing to do with me.
He wasn’t talking about incentives or bias. He was just trying to figure out if your couldn't loan them because they were a review unit, and if they were, maybe ELAC would allow him to have the same unit when you send them back. If you own them and you don’t want to ship them to Amir for investigation, that’s something else.
 

MrPeabody

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Yeh, could have been caused by me starting the track in the middle.

Would the DC component be blocked by the amplifier's frequency response?
 
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Whether I bought them, or if they were gifted to me, or the company paid me thousands of dollars to take them off their hands, how is that your business? How does my business dealings with any company determine where you get your samples @amirm? You can contact them yourself and do your own deal. That has nothing to do with me.

It's called "conflict of interest" if you get free stuff, accept payment etc. when reviewing products. For example, you have Consumer Reports that purchases all their products they test and refuses any freebes from vendors--business ethics and all! There was a case then went to the Supreme Court, Bose VS Consumer Union and it had to do with a test of the Bose 901... all the audio rags praised Bose at that time but Consumer Reports did not so Bose sued them. Consumer Reports does not accept advertising so they feel no pressure to pander to their advertisers. They also have the money to take it to the Supreme Court and they did win their case. You should look it up, gain a bit of knowledge on that front.

On this site, they make every effort to avoid any conflict of interest and that is why is has become so popular. Ya see, the audio review business is for the most part BS (except Consumer Reports) as the magazines, Youtube channels accept free stuff, get all sort of advertising and so on to sell mystical audiophile gear. So yeah, it is critically important to know if you get free stuff, accept money for your "time" and so on. I tend towards tests/measurements and no conflict of interest while other people don't care. One good test is worth a million opinions and avoiding conflict of interest is what gains you respect--not how much time it takes to put together a video.

Something to think about...
 

joentell

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He wasn’t talking about incentives or bias. He was just trying to figure out if your couldn't loan them because they were a review unit, and if they were, maybe ELAC would allow him to have the same unit when you send them back. If you own them and you don’t want to ship them to Amir for investigation, that’s something else.
I own them and I don't want to ship them to Amir...because I'm using them in my main system. Even if I decide to use other speakers as my main speakers, I still don't want to take the time to send it to Amir. He can just contact Elac. There's nothing in it for me to go out of my way to send mine. I don't even have the original box so even if I did, it might get damaged in shipping leading to another problematic speaker. Other reasons are, I try my best not to go out because of COVID cases here in Southern California. Other reason is that shipping speakers is expensive. It costs much less for a company like ELAC to ship speakers because they have business accounts. I'll reiterate. I have nothing to gain from doing that. ELAC might. They could get a good review. Amir might. He might discover the problem doesn't exist on another unit. That's between them. I was just here to offer some insight and that's what I did. I wasn't expecting to have to take apart my system to send it over to Amir!
 
OP
amirm

amirm

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Would the DC component be blocked by the amplifier's frequency response?
No, this amp is DC coupled. I had an upstream device short out and produce DC at its input. It happily blew the speaker to pieces that was connected to it! Most power amplifiers these days are DC coupled.
 

MrPeabody

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This was one of my criticisms of the original UB5. You know, other than that I thought they were weird sounding shout boxes. I had to power them with a 250 Wpc Crown to get them to respond sorta like expected. Normal people do not have that kind of clean power laying around the house.

Good grief. Please tell me that you don't actually believe that a speaker can benefit from the ability of the amplifier to supply more current than the speaker is drawing. How would this be possible?
 

MrPeabody

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You have no idea. We are not teenage baseheads here trying to melt cones. Transients at low volumes can suck the life out of an amp.

Maybe, but why would this be more an issue with one speaker than another speaker when peak (or RMS) voltage is the same for both?
 

joentell

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It's called "conflict of interest" if you get free stuff, accept payment etc. when reviewing products. For example, you have Consumer Reports that purchases all their products they test and refuses any freebes from vendors--business ethics and all! There was a case then went to the Supreme Court, Bose VS Consumer Union and it had to do with a test of the Bose 901... all the audio rags praised Bose at that time but Consumer Reports did not so Bose sued them. Consumer Reports does not accept advertising so they feel no pressure to pander to their advertisers. They also have the money to take it to the Supreme Court and they did win their case. You should look it up, gain a bit of knowledge on that front.

On this site, they make every effort to avoid any conflict of interest and that is why is has become so popular. Ya see, the audio review business is for the most part BS (except Consumer Reports) as the magazines, Youtube channels accept free stuff, get all sort of advertising and so on to sell mystical audiophile gear. So yeah, it is critically important to know if you get free stuff, accept money for your "time" and so on. I tend towards tests/measurements and no conflict of interest while other people don't care. One good test is worth a million opinions and avoiding conflict of interest is what gains you respect--not how much time it takes to put together a video.

Something to think about...
I disclose everything required by FTC on my videos and then some. I'm happy to post when a video is sponsored. I usually check the option to say that a video is, even if it isn't just to play it safe. I have disclaimers set by default on every video since I do get affiliate ad revenue and MOST companies do send products free for review.

I openly charged exhibitors and attendees for my event, The Hi-Fi Summit, and got some pushback here from @amirm for doing so. I talk very openly about business relationships with companies on our podcast Daily HiFi. I just don't feel the need to do disclose something just because Amir asks me.

I will disclose that I have purchased numerous ELAC speakers from ELAC. Thousands worth. They've asked me to send back review samples and I have. I've done paid videography work for them to film and edit their videos at previous trade shows (not a review.) I have NOT been paid by them to do a review. I have charged them to exhibit at The Hi-Fi Summit and to be a sponsor of the event. I do get to talk to Andrew Jones on the phone when I have a technical question even if it isn't about his speakers.

Having said ALL of that...I don't love these speakers for the reason I stated in an earlier post as well as my video review. My review was far from glowing in my opinion. You tell me what you think. Something about the treble that I don't like. I don't know what it is. I was hoping Amir's measurements might shed some light on that. I don't like the build for the price. I still feel like the old UB5's present a better value for most people who don't mind a speaker with recessed highs. I placed the Wharfedale Diamond 12.1's ($399) above these at nearly twice the price. ELAC can pay me and that still would be my conclusion.

What people should understand is that as a reviewer, I have good relationships with MANY companies, not just one. Many of them consider each other as their competition, but that's not my business. My job is to call it how I see it. If a company wants to pay me to say their speaker sucks, then that's up to them. I would most likely decline that offer because it's a lose lose situation. It hurts their business and it's a waste of my time to make that video. I would rather not shed light on crappy products because even negative publicity is good publicity as this review here on ASR is proving.

My boss is not the company, it's my audience. My audience pays me through views and when they buy products using affiliate links on my videos. Once in a while, we do have companies that want paid sponsored mentions in our videos, but we make that obvious by saying it's a sponsored ad and having a notification on the bottom of the video stating the video is sponsored. We also don't do sponsored ads on a review of that companies product. We strategically place ads on complementary products from other companies.

We are totally off-topic here, but I hope that clarifies who I am and what I stand for.
 
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MrPeabody

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It should be no surprise to anyone that when she says "he goes" on that track, that it causes the issue on @amirm's review unit. He measured the resonance at around 600hz and her voice is right there when she says that. I made a video to help illustrate it for anyone interested.

This is definitive evidence that the sound Amir hears at that point is in fact the high level of harmonic distortion at 600 Hz.
 

MrPeabody

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Modern amps are DC coupled
This is universally true? Then we should never see any rolloff in the response at very low frequency, for any modern amplifier, correct?
 

MrPeabody

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No, this amp is DC coupled. I had an upstream device short out and produce DC at its input. It happily blew the speaker to pieces that was connected to it! Most power amplifiers these days are DC coupled.

As Johnny Carson used to say, "I did not know that."
 

MrPeabody

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A powerful amp provides effortless reserves for transients for any speaker.

It is generally true that a more powerful amp is less likely to clip transients than a less powerful amp. Unfortunately, this only serves to obfuscate the question concerning the veracity of the notion advocated here ...

This was one of my criticisms of the original UB5. ... I had to power them with a 250 Wpc Crown to get them to respond sorta like expected.

... where it is apparent that Steve Dallas was alluding not to the general behavior of amplifiers in the context of clipping transients, but rather to a nebulous property of a specific speaker, by which the specific speaker in question seemingly benefits from an amplifier having the ability to deliver more current than the speaker is drawing. If it is merely the well-known phenomenon to which you allude, this would leave unanswered the obvious question of why this amplifier capability is more important for this speaker than for others.
 

MerlinGS

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There was a case then went to the Supreme Court, Bose VS Consumer Union and it had to do with a test of the Bose 901... all the audio rags praised Bose at that time but Consumer Reports did not so Bose sued them. Consumer Reports does not accept advertising so they feel no pressure to pander to their advertisers. They also have the money to take it to the Supreme Court and they did win their case...
Not trying to derail, just a quick response to the above quote. It has been a while since I read the case, but if memory serves, it was about malice, and a majority in the SC concluded that Bose failed to provide actual proof of malice. Your response seems to suggest it was about something else.
 
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