Dutch & Dutch office & factory tour and listening session (with many pics)

[fordiebianco]

Hi everybody,

Thank you for this. Absolutely fascinating.

 

[Soundstage]

@Jose Hidalgo and did you buy a pair of speakers?

 

[Puddingbuks]

Thanks for the story and pictures.

Did they mention de 8m model, the non-cardioid version of the 8c?

 

[BlackTalon]

Great write-up. A refreshing change from the ones in the audiophile magazines that focus on the beauty of the surrounding countryside and what they ate for lunch/ dinner.

 

[Jose Hidalgo]

@Jose Hidalgo and did you buy a pair of speakers?

That's the idea, yes. Currently one thing is preventing us from that: we'd like to move abroad in a year or so and build a house. We'd like to wait at least until we have moved. No need to wait for the house, but we'd like at least to be on location, even if it's a temporary place. I wouldn't trust any moving company with our precious pair of 8c's ! So yeah, it may take a bit of time, but we'll get there.

Did they mention de 8m model, the non-cardioid version of the 8c?

I didn't ask any questions about it, so no. To me D&D is synonym to cardioid. For non-cardioid there are already lots of manufacturers.
They mentioned future cardioid models, but I'm not allowed to talk about them, sorry.

 

[kemmler3D]

Really cool to see behind the scenes, thanks for the writeup!

 

[retro]

Thanks for the story and pictures.

Did they mention de 8m model, the non-cardioid version of the 8c?

From the first post:

The 8m was basically a 8c (same outside dimensions) without cardioid design, without dual rear subwoofers and with a BR vent instead. It's not sold anymore.

 

[diddley]

And we got Max Verstappen, Rembrandt, van Gogh etc

 

[VintageFlanker]

Great job, @Jose Hidalgo !

Specs and measurements:

• https://dutchdutch.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/8c-Spec-Sheet-2019.pdf
• https://www.stereophile.com/content/dutch-dutch-8c-active-loudspeaker-system-measurements
• https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...si-anechoic-spinorama-and-measurements.12111/

Reviews:

• https://thenextweb.com/news/dutch-d...nd-speakers-with-the-best-bass-ive-ever-heard
• https://www.soundstagehifi.com/index.php/equipment-reviews/1270-dutch-dutch-8c-active-loudspeakers
• https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/reviews/dutch-dutch-8c-loudspeaker-review-r739/

Any particular reason why Erin's review is not mentioned, while being the most extensive measurements about the 8C so far?

Dutch & Dutch 8c Speaker Review

Dutch & Dutch 8c Speaker Review

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

 

[Jose Hidalgo]

No particular reason. I added 3 reviews to the OP because I happened to have the links, that's all. But you are of course welcome to add whatever you want. Thank you!

 

[Recluse-Animator]

Very interesting, thanks for sharing! I’d be slightly concerned about that Noctua fan, I wonder if it’s user replaceable? I have a bunch of servers - some home made - and in my experience fans are the primary failure points, followed by hard drives. Right now I have a server with two Noctua fans in need of replacement, one of them has gotten very noisy and the other died completely. After about 2.5 years.

I have Noctua fans that have been on almost 24/7 over 10 years without an issue.

 

[Recluse-Animator]

Likely the fan doesn't even run normally. There's no fan in my 1237A amps which have the same Pascals, they barely get warm blasting at full volume..

Does Genelec use Pascals in all their speakers?

 

[617]

Plywood and solid wood are used together all the time, in this case it’s just not the way you should do it.

From the pics and what I’ve read about them, the sides are solid wood panels.

If they hold together over the long haul (these are pretty recent products) good for them I guess. It’s just not something most cabinet makers would do. The shrinkage coefficient for White Oak is 0.00365. In my area, I’d expect a moisture content change of around 4% (6% m.c. in the winter, 10% m.c. in the summer).
The solid wood sides look to be around 14” wide, so the seasonal dimensional change will be approximately 0.00365 x 4 x 14” = 0.204” (13/64”).

I'm not a millworker but I design a good amount of millwork and I agree. Solid wood and plywood can be joined using fasteners in various floating kind of configurations but I wouldn't rabbet solid wood and put plywood braces in it. This is why speakers are normally plywood.

If it weren't for the rounded corners, quartersawn WO veneer over the ply would be the best way to construct this.

The solid wood looks fantastic and is relatively simple to fabricate. If it works, it works, but it is definitely not a conventional construction.

Will it fail? The wood will move. Even if it's meticulously dried and finished, moisture will find its way into the wood, and then out again. If the rabbets have the right tolerances and the right adhesive it might be fine, who knows.

 

[hege]

Does Genelec use Pascals in all their speakers?

No, just the master series RAM-L amp (likely XL too).

Genelec RAM-L amplifier teardown pictures

Here's some pictures I took of the amplifier, while investigating why my 1237A's tweeter went quiet. Apparently there was bad/loose connection somewhere, as it simply started working after putting all back together.. Classic PCM1794 / PCM4220 chips. D-class module seems to be Pascal S-PRO2. I'm...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Berwhale]

Very interesting, thanks for sharing! I’d be slightly concerned about that Noctua fan, I wonder if it’s user replaceable? I have a bunch of servers - some home made - and in my experience fans are the primary failure points, followed by hard drives. Right now I have a server with two Noctua fans in need of replacement, one of them has gotten very noisy and the other died completely. After about 2.5 years.

Really? I have 5 Noctua fans in my PC that haven't missed a beat for 5 years (and they're the cheaper Redux models).

 

[Doodski]

That business really was a upstart and now has a nice building with space to move. Very nice!

 

[Recluse-Animator]

Really? I have 5 Noctua fans in my PC that haven't missed a beat for 5 years (and they're the cheaper Redux models).

What else cost so little and lasts so long. Bang for buck is outstanding.

 

[mcdn]

The beaglebone makes sense, but presumably there’s sigmaDSP or similar under it for the actual real time DSP?

 

[Head_Unit]

a tour of Dutch & Dutch facilities.

VERY cool and fascinating post. Except I was left wondering about the beauty of the surrounding countryside and what you ate for lunch/ dinner. ( to @BlackTalon). More seriously, we also had the Apple HomePod measuring and adapting to its environment. I wonder if we'll see some maker taking up the idea but offloaded to a smartphone, i.e. not needing as much computing power and cost inside the speaker itself, and development costs distributable across entire current and future product lines.

In https://www.stereophile.com/content/dutch-dutch-8c-active-loudspeaker-system they were $12,500 in 2019, not awful considering all the stuff inside. Current price anyone?

 

[Peluvius]

What else cost so little and lasts so long. Bang for buck is outstanding.

The Noctua fan in the pic has an MTTF of 150k hours, that's 17 years of continuous running and its quiet.