Do I need to clean my LP's?

[cgallery]

Isopropyl is actually one of the only things I've every used that I thought adversely effected the sound- a harshening of the treble region. I read subsequent to that feeling that it has been suggested that it leaches plasticizer from the pvc, but I don't know if that is true or not and I have never done any listening tests to prove it after learning of the far more effective detergents.

No, that was just what a record free of residue sounds like. Studies indicate that the best one can hope to achieve via rinsing is leaving a single molecular layer of detergent behind. That is after multiple pressurized rinses using running water. Most people can't achieve that level of rinsing, though, and the accumulation of detergent residues mixed with whatever has been solubilized pack the highest frequency modulations, reducing clarity.

That is one of the primary reasons I use only alcohol.

Alcohol doesn't leach anything from records, either. Spectrum analysis of alcohol that had contained submerged vinyl records indicate the alcohol doesn't contain anything unexpected.

Lots of scare tactics perpetuated by sellers of record cleaning concoctions, I'm afraid.

 

[Godataloss]

No, that was just what a record free of residue sounds like. Studies indicate that the best one can hope to achieve via rinsing is leaving a single molecular layer of detergent behind. That is after multiple pressurized rinses using running water. Most people can't achieve that level of rinsing, though, and the accumulation of detergent residues mixed with whatever has been solubilized pack the highest frequency modulations, reducing clarity.

That is one of the primary reasons I use only alcohol.

Alcohol doesn't leach anything from records, either. Spectrum analysis of alcohol that had contained submerged vinyl records indicate the alcohol doesn't contain anything unexpected.

Lots of scare tactics perpetuated by sellers of record cleaning concoctions, I'm afraid.

None of that changes the fact that alcohol is a poor detergent.

 

[cgallery]

None of that changes the fact that alcohol is a poor detergent.

Some people use it in very low concentrations and it is indeed pretty worthless when used like that.

You can't use high concentrations with machines (vacuum or ultrasonic), due to safety issues.

It does require a different approach, compared to using detergents.

 

[Godataloss]

Some people use it in very low concentrations and it is indeed pretty worthless when used like that.

You can't use high concentrations with machines (vacuum or ultrasonic), due to safety issues.

It does require a different approach, compared to using detergents.

The expense for it to be used effectively would have to be considerable as well. Having heard no benefit, indeed I think I hear a detriment (could be psychological), I couldn't recommend it's use. My vinyl setup is good, but I don't think I can resolve whatever residue is left on my records to validate it's superiority as a rising agent. I use a tiny amount of quants in the rinse for the specific purpose of leaving an atomic coating to fight static and it seems to work really well, though I have only anecdotal evidence to support that. I have considered adding a second ultrasonic for a pure distilled rinse cycle. So far I haven't really felt the need.

 

[AaronJ]

Some people use it in very low concentrations and it is indeed pretty worthless when used like that.

You can't use high concentrations with machines (vacuum or ultrasonic), due to safety issues.

It does require a different approach, compared to using detergents.

What is your cleaning regimen? I scanned the entire thread and you've mentioned using a Knosti with 91% alcohol as the start. What comes next? If I can improve my cleaning I'm always looking for tips.

 

[cgallery]

What is your cleaning regimen? I scanned the entire thread and you've mentioned using a Knosti with 91% alcohol as the start. What comes next? If I can improve my cleaning I'm always looking for tips.

No real regimen, I've found records that look perfect but play noisy can have all sorts of weird crap in the groove, I've not found any approach that works quickly for all of them.

My first step is using carbon fiber brushes misted with 2-3 pumps of distilled water from a good atomizer. This collects anything loose. Then I take a listen to the record and for a large number of them, I'm done, I don't need to go any further.

If a record demonstrates surface noise that would be indicative of crap stuck in the groove, it is onto the Knosti with 91% alcohol. The record is removed and the excess alcohol shaken off, then placed in the drying rack (the 91% alcohol means the record is going to be dry in 2-3 minutes).

Now listen again. Depending on what I hear, further attacks typically involve velvet pads soaked with alcohol before playing the album. This further softens the remaining crap in the groove and gives the stylus a shot at raking it out. After playing the album I'll use another misted carbon fiber brush to pickup anything now on the surface of the vinyl. Mind you, this last step is for the records everyone else will give up on. I have original pressings of records that were GIVEN to me because of "obvious groove damage." Most of them came clean with repeated soaking/playing cycles. A very few unfortunately do demonstrate damage from a damaged/worn stylus. I'd say the ratio is 8:2.

But I'm mostly in agreement with Roy Gandy, I don't think records need cleaning beyond being played.

In fact I've concluded that there is a bit of a record cleaning paradox: If you want to make a record dirty, just clean it.

Obviously most of you guys are controlling the amount of detergents used and working diligently to rinse it off records, but there are plenty of misguided people out there using high concentrations of dish soap and failing to sufficiently rinse. And that is if we're lucky, some people are still using those record cleaning cloths that are impregnated with something (silicone?) and squishing anything on the surface into the groove, adding some silicone and fibers from the cloth for good measure. A few more plays and cleanings using that regimen is going to make for a record that is very challenging to clean later on.

I wish I had a fast approach, but I'm happy to have an approach that at least yields quiet records with no more residue in the groove, no catalyst to start a new round of surface noise.

 

[Godataloss]

No real regimen, I've found records that look perfect but play noisy can have all sorts of weird crap in the groove, I've not found any approach that works quickly for all of them.

My first step is using carbon fiber brushes misted with 2-3 pumps of distilled water from a good atomizer. This collects anything loose. Then I take a listen to the record and for a large number of them, I'm done, I don't need to go any further.

If a record demonstrates surface noise that would be indicative of crap stuck in the groove, it is onto the Knosti with 91% alcohol. The record is removed and the excess alcohol shaken off, then placed in the drying rack (the 91% alcohol means the record is going to be dry in 2-3 minutes).

Now listen again. Depending on what I hear, further attacks typically involve velvet pads soaked with alcohol before playing the album. This further softens the remaining crap in the groove and gives the stylus a shot at raking it out. After playing the album I'll use another misted carbon fiber brush to pickup anything now on the surface of the vinyl. Mind you, this last step is for the records everyone else will give up on. I have original pressings of records that were GIVEN to me because of "obvious groove damage." Most of them came clean with repeated soaking/playing cycles. A very few unfortunately do demonstrate damage from a damaged/worn stylus. I'd say the ratio is 8:2.

But I'm mostly in agreement with Roy Gandy, I don't think records need cleaning beyond being played.

In fact I've concluded that there is a bit of a record cleaning paradox: If you want to make a record dirty, just clean it.

Obviously most of you guys are controlling the amount of detergents used and working diligently to rinse it off records, but there are plenty of misguided people out there using high concentrations of dish soap and failing to sufficiently rinse. And that is if we're lucky, some people are still using those record cleaning cloths that are impregnated with something (silicone?) and squishing anything on the surface into the groove, adding some silicone and fibers from the cloth for good measure. A few more plays and cleanings using that regimen is going to make for a record that is very challenging to clean later on.

I wish I had a fast approach, but I'm happy to have an approach that at least yields quiet records with no more residue in the groove, no catalyst to start a new round of surface noise.

"gives the stylus a shot at raking it out"-

 

[cgallery]

"gives the stylus a shot at raking it out"-

Right, the stylus is the single best groove cleaner we have.

That is why, there are no before/after videos of ultrasonic or vacuum-based record cleaning devices showing anything other than fairly lame results.

 

[dBiz]

 

[cgallery]

Most of those records were still quite noisy.

The Flat Earth (Thomas Dolby) album I received from Germany today was equally noisy as the worst of those. I brushed it w/ misted CF brushes, then washed it with alcohol on a velvet pad, the result was as good as any of those videos.

The difference is, after another round (worst case two rounds) of cleaning/playing, my new Dolby album will be quiet.

 

[dBiz]

I look forward to your video.

 

[kemmler3D]

I just put mine in the dishwasher when I don't have a full load of plates, seems to work but getting the calcium scale off my stylus is a real pain. They don't warp too much if you turn off the heated dry cycle. Keep them away from the forks and knives though, obv.

 

[Angsty]

Yeah, I’m pretty skeptical of the benefit of extreme cleaning routines. I’d consider high percentage alcohol cleaning to be extreme.

Low concentrations of surfactant in distilled water in the Humminguru works well for me. I use the same cleaning solution that I used with my vacuum cleaner, but at much lower concentrations.

Typically, after 5 minutes in the clean cycle, the only pops I’m hearing are from scratches, not particulates. VG+ records are silent from unrecorded noise.

 

[mike70]

That's

pretty skeptical of the benefit of extreme cleaning routines. I’d consider high percentage alcohol cleaning to be extreme.

Low concentrations of surfactant in distilled water in the Humminguru works well for me. I use the same cleaning solution that I used with my vacuum cleaner, but at much lower concentrations.

Typically, after 5 minutes in the clean cycle, the only pops I’m hearing are from scratches, not particulates. VG+ records are silent from unrecorded noise.

That's also my experience ... vinyl isn't plagued with noise if you take proper care of the records / stylus.

 

[BDWoody]

What is your cleaning regimen? I scanned the entire thread and you've mentioned using a Knosti with 91% alcohol as the start. What comes next? If I can improve my cleaning I'm always looking for tips.

https://thevinylpress.com/app/uploads/2022/01/PACVR_3rd-Ed_2022-01-17_Master.pdf

If you really want to improve your process, read that pdf.

 

[MattHooper]

I'm about to get my Degritter US record cleaner back tomorrow. It died on me, but Degritter has fixed it and shipped it back. They have very, very good support for their product.

As I've mentioned before, I've found the US cleaning to vary from "virtually no difference" in record noise to "turning what sounded like a record pulled from a garbage can to one that sounds virtually brand new." Most of the results are somewhere in between - most times a noticeable difference in reduction of record noise. The reduction of record noise often leads to a more nuanced and natural sense of timbre as well (recording dependent).

 

[MattHooper]

My Degritter arrived back from being fixed. I washed a few records. One was particularly impressive: my copy of Thompson Twins: Into The Gap.
It had always sounded very vivid, and very "lit up" tonally, as in pretty bright sounding and, while the sound was as I said very vivid, it bordered on a bit of bur or harshness. It also had enough record noise to say "Yeah, this is a second had record for sure."

But after a double wash it sounded gorgeous. Far less crackling - in fact mostly unnoticable for the most part (except for one section) and also the overall sound was more clean, clear, still bordering on bright, but not harsh. It was so clean, clear and detailed it almost felt like I'd put on a CD. Pretty wild.

 

[levimax]

"Glue Cleaning" always seemed extreme to me... tried it once on a really noisy LP and it didn't work. Interesting idea though https://everyrecordtellsastory.com/...ings-that-you-shouldnt-use-to-clean-your-lps/

 

[Godataloss]

My Degritter arrived back from being fixed. I washed a few records. One was particularly impressive: my copy of Thompson Twins: Into The Gap.
It had always sounded very vivid, and very "lit up" tonally, as in pretty bright sounding and, while the sound was as I said very vivid, it bordered on a bit of bur or harshness. It also had enough record noise to say "Yeah, this is a second had record for sure."

But after a double wash it sounded gorgeous. Far less crackling - in fact mostly unnoticable for the most part (except for one section) and also the overall sound was more clean, clear, still bordering on bright, but not harsh. It was so clean, clear and detailed it almost felt like I'd put on a CD. Pretty wild.

In my experience, once they're cleaned to that pristine state, they only require a quick dip in the ultrasonic to remove static and dust every 5 to ten plays.

 

[mike70]

What brush to use for wet cleaning?

record doctor
disc doctor
mofi
paint pads

goat hair or nylon bristles?

maybe is a good poll