Do Audio Speakers Break-in?

[Trell]

My own most drastic experience is that when I was about to, or should I say started to get sick, feels quite normal after work, switched on the system and listen, it sounds so harsh and irritating to my ears, next day I got fever and go to see the doctor, after that the system sounded great again, also after a hot day working outside and get pretty close to heat stroke any system which normally sounds nice becomes harsh IMO. From that point later I went from believing in burn in to a nay sayer

Obviously your ears got burned in!

 

[ahofer]

have you ever listened to your system one day and found it to be great. Then, the next day, it sounded differently? Then, later, it was great again, and you 'heard' stuff in your music you didn't 'hear' before? I think we've all had that experience. Nothing changed other than the time of day, possibly the outside temperature and barometric pressure, et al. That sort of 'experience' leads to all kinds of postulates, such as "the electricity at night must be somehow 'cleaner' than in the day, because at night my system sounds 'better' to me."

Unfortunately, I'm reaching a certain age (I'm 58) where I get occasional ringing in my ears. Often when I lie down at night. Perhaps creeping tinnitus, I don't know. What has amazed me, however, is my ability to subsume it, to almost tune it out like a parametric equalizer. It has taken just a modicum of practice in focusing on other external audible phenomena, moving my head, etc. The silver lining in this awful development is the illustration of just how powerful the conscious brain is in the process of 'hearing'. No doubt there are physiological changes as well as conscious attention that change perceptions of ringing (congestion, etc.) , but that just adds to the complexity.

Another weird development - I've suddenly become very sensitive to the Rheostat whine in my apartment. My wife laughs at me when I adjust them or turn them off to listen to music.

More OT, anyone watching the "Lois & Clark" series on HBO? They repeatedly use a noise just like high amplitude Tinnitus to indicate super-hearing. It's awful. And on my system it weirdly sounds like it's coming from the rear wall (my TV position is a bit off to the side).

 

[Mojo Warrior]

I was hesitant to post this observation but I believe that many others have also experienced it. But my system sounds noticeably "better" when listening in the dark. A perfect example of psycho-acoustic phenomena. Nothing else was changed, only my perception.

Please no comments about stray electromagnetic waves from light bulbs, etc.

 

[Spkrdctr]

I was being funny. Don't take it too seriously. As far as Amir being serious? He's a guy that likes to measure. That's his gig. I think he generally does good work as far as it goes--no one else is really doing what he does, at the volume he does it. But some of the stuff he's concerned with is pretty uninteresting, from strictly a listener's perspective. It's more of an 'engineering' thing. Who is doing the best with what they have to work with, and so on. Remember, there is a lot of stuff we can't hear, but can measure. But not the other way around.

As far as who can hear what, and how to determine it? That was mostly settled, back in the early to mid '70s, within the field of psychoacoustics. Guys like Mark Davis at MIT--although Mark was (as far as I know) working mainly with the perception of electronic circuits in preamps and amps. It was almost always FR (and distortion, and listening levels). FR was what Amir was looking at in Post Number One of this thread.

But on another serious note: have you ever listened to your system one day and found it to be great. Then, the next day, it sounded differently? Then, later, it was great again, and you 'heard' stuff in your music you didn't 'hear' before? I think we've all had that experience. Nothing changed other than the time of day, possibly the outside temperature and barometric pressure, et al. That sort of 'experience' leads to all kinds of postulates, such as "the electricity at night must be somehow 'cleaner' than in the day, because at night my system sounds 'better' to me."

Most people who 'experience' that sort of psychological thing aren't neurotic. They just go with it and get on with their life. Then there are folks like that Stereophile guy, Fremer, who hads his house rewired with special cable to get rid of the gremlins, and then goes on and on about the highs and 'space between the instruments' on his stereo after the new and improved wire. He's the audiophile equivalent to the guy carving up the mashed potatoes in that movie. All I'm saying is that you probably don't want to be that guy.

I love mashed potatoes! Get some good Turkey gravy and that is an entire meal by itself. YUM!

 

[YSC]

Obviously your ears got burned in!

er nope, it's when it recovered and things sounded nice again, everytime when flu or fever strikes and the music becomes crap again

 

[Trell]

er nope, it's when it recovered and things sounded nice again, everytime when flu or fever strikes and the music becomes crap again

Repeated burn in then.

 

[More Dynamics Please]

This is one of those audio topics that never completely goes away. It only temporarily goes into remission only to continually respawn, month after month, year after year, decade after decade. There will never be a definitive answer that convinces everyone. Even now some continue to shrug off the unambiguous conclusions by Dr. Floyd Toole, Dr. Sean Olive and other respected audio researchers who have performed the measurements and the blind listening tests that show speaker break in produces minor changes that may be measurable but are not audible.

 

[sngreen]

Running-in period for hifi speakers

The loudspeakers used in speakers are complex mechanical parts which require a running in period in order to work to the best of their ability

www.focal.com

Yep, they don't know good speakers from Adam, and not honest too!

 

[Head_Unit]

What is not obvious is whether it makes a difference. I have yet to see any measurements by any manufacturer or reviewer that shows a difference.

Yeah that's the big clue right there. It is NOT a thing except in people's heads, that's my firm view. If you really hammer the hell out of speakers you CAN measure a decrease in resonance frequency, however when I had to do a test like that for work a long time ago the difference in frequency response was miniscule. It's like how you occasionally see different measurements of cables or power conditioners or whatever-notice they do not show actual acoustic results. Before/after hash removed from the power line-YES; actual reduction in amp noise floor-NO.

So let us start the "BREAK-IN CHALLENGE" for anyone to show actual acoustic measurements showing burn-in as significant. And yes, I already know "we don't have a way to measure soundstage" blah blah blah. But we can measure some main things! Otherwise we're left with an effect whose reality, if any, is physically subtle.

The interesting part to me is how wildly vociferous those who want to believe get, they make Fox Mulder look mild. "I KNOW WHAT I'M HEARING"-really? Do you? Given the infamous and numerous fallibitilies of human hearing, how do you know is not simply psychological and without in any physical reality at all? Why do you have such a problem even considering that maybe it's all in your head? Since I doubt anyone seriously disbelieves that our hearing varies with mood and affect and barometric pressure and ambient lightning etc etc

 

[Head_Unit]

Running-in period for hifi speakers

The loudspeakers used in speakers are complex mechanical parts which require a running in period in order to work to the best of their ability

www.focal.com

Yep, they don't know good speakers from Adam, and not honest too!

Why should Focal be exempt from wanting people to not return their speakers?!?
As for "honest"-get real, this is the audio business. It is the zeroth innermost circle of Hell, which Dante could not write about because Audioquest had not been invented yet

 

[RichB]

Any speaker I buy, I plan to use and keep.
So, if the (woofers in general) break in, that is fine.

If this is a concern, play them 24/7 for a few days and that should handle any "issues".

- Rich

 

[Twitch54]

You should have bought a lottery ticket this morning, Steve. You've just scored the Daily Double!

That's one reason the audio hobby is not as 'user friendly' as it used to be, when local dealers were an option. Consumers used to be able to go to their dealer, borrow a loudspeaker, sometimes for as much as several weeks, and audition it in their own home. Dealers had dedicated 'demo' units (supposedly 'broken in', although I don't recall that bit of audiophile drama being prevalent back in the day).

I remember doing that with electronics, too. The caveat being you had to pay for it if you broke it.

On a related note: In my area we have a big box store. I suppose Best Buy still has an audio section. I can't imagine anything less appealing than going to a Best Buy and auditioning hi-fi gear. Maybe if I needed a washing machine I'd look in to it.

Guitar stores are an option if you are looking for small shoe-box two way self powered monitors. Most guitar stores have decent return policies.

There's a few 'home theater' specialty installers. I'm not even sure they have an active storefront. You meet with them, or have your builder meet with them, in order to work something out. The lines they carry might not be what you want for hi-fi, and once it's installed in your drywall and ceiling beams, return isn't a good option.

Sad to report--in my area there was a guy who overhauled vintage gear. Mostly McIntosh, but if he was interested and could get parts he'd work on other brands. He recently notified everyone that he's no longer going to take in repairs. Said he's just getting too old for it. Can't even lift the amps up to his workbench.

Fortunately I'm 35 mins away from one of the best brick-n-mortar stores in the country ...........

Best Selection of Audio and Video Equipment in Sales Tax-Free, Wilmington, Delaware - Overture Ultimate Home Electronics

Best Selection of Audio and Video Equipment in Sales Tax-Free, Wilmington, Delaware at Overture Ultimate Home Electronics

www.overtureav.com

 

[Jake Cushing]

I made one of those comments.
No, it is not obvious what new speaker buyers want to know or do know.
If they want to know if they can improve the sound quickly by doing overnight/all-day burn-in sessions they should just do it.
If they want to use an Irrational But Efficacious CD and it makes them happy just do it.
What is obvious is that it is a moot point. If speakers do burn in, they will.
What is not obvious is whether it makes a difference. I have yet to see any measurements by any manufacturer or reviewer that shows a difference. Actually just the opposite.

Lol.

Tiny, inaudible differences in SINAD across amplification and DAC equipment - "yes this should be measured and analysed and discussed, I approve. "

Speaker burn-in (which factually, demonstrably creates up to 10hz extra low-end at the driver level*) - "Noooo there's no point discussing this!!1"

*per Andrew Jones - what would he know?

 

[RichB]

Lol.

Tiny, inaudible differences in SINAD across amplification and DAC equipment - "yes this should be measured and analysed and discussed, I approve. "

Speaker burn-in (which factually, demonstrably creates up to 10hz extra low-end at the driver level*) - "Noooo there's no point discussing this!!1"

*per Andrew Jones - what would he know?

All audio products should be allowed to burn-in, definately longer than the return window

- Rich

 

[More Dynamics Please]

Bottom line is that Andrew Jones agrees with Toole and Olive that speaker burn-in causes a small measurable change in woofer compliance but isn't audible. Here's the conclusion of part 2 of the video:

ELAC's Andrew Jones, speaker burn-in ISN'T that big a deal​

 

[Jake Cushing]

Yes yes yes

That's why we had a thread on it, that's why it was a legit topic to discuss.

How much difference in SINAD is audible to you, @More Dynamics Please ?

 

[More Dynamics Please]

Yes yes yes

That's why we had a thread on it, that's why it was a legit topic to discuss.

How much difference in SINAD is audible to you, @More Dynamics Please ?

Not enough to discern an audible difference from speaker burn-in. However, I have noticed a perceptual difference in my speakers depending on the mood I'm in. They sound audibly better to me when I'm in a good mood than when I'm in a bad mood. The human auditory system is amazingly adaptable with sophisticated processing through its CPU, aka human brain.

 

[Triliza]

Amir's measurements didn't show up any change after a couple of hours. If we assume that more time is needed or measurements don't tell the whole story, there is only blind-controlled tests left to do. Buying two pairs of speakers just for the test is unrealistic, but what can be done is to break-in only one speaker of a pair and leave the other untouched (not sure if it safe for the amp to drive only one speaker though). Amir posted a video I think explaining why listening to only one speaker is better for evaluation anyway. Someone brave and with motivation should give this a try while buying new speakers and let us know if there is an audible difference on a blind test.

 

[Jake Cushing]

Not enough to discern an audible difference from speaker burn-in. However, I have noticed a perceptual difference in my speakers depending on the mood I'm in. They sound audibly better to me when I'm in a good mood than when I'm in a bad mood. The human auditory system is amazingly adaptable with sophisticated processing through its CPU, aka human brain.

I meant, how much SINAD in amplifiers is audible to you?

The point being, should all discussion of amplifier SINAD that is below audibility, be off-limits for discussion?

Speaker burn-in is a question of frequency response, rather than SINAD, btw.

 

[LTig]

I was hesitant to post this observation but I believe that many others have also experienced it. But my system sounds noticeably "better" when listening in the dark. A perfect example of psycho-acoustic phenomena. Nothing else was changed, only my perception.

What about closing your eyes instead? That's what I usually do. It should have the same effect - you shut down one sense to enhance your concentration to another sense.