Dirac ART is now running on beta FW for Denon Xx800H AVRs!

[peng]

I believe that ARC genesis equates to Dirac Live... it doesn't have the more advanced Bass tuning provided by DLBC or DL-ART

In some way, yes, in other ways, not even closed... Audyssey's might actually be closer, even very comparable if one uses the apps wisely.

 

[peng]

Anthem ARC Genesis: Optimization, & Setup Tips for the Ultimate Home Theater Experience

In this livestream, we sit down with our friends at Anthem to discuss the best setup and calibration practices for ARC Genesis room correction to get the mos...

www.youtube.com

Another one of those that are more for entertainment (being too harsh), or general idea of how ARCG works (being generous)!

 

[peng]

I thought the ARC Genesis does exactly the same what DLBC multisub does without extra costs in MRX1140 or AVM70 and 90 models which are the only ones to have separate dual sub outs. @peng knows more?

Not sure about "exactly", but from what I gathered by reading their marketing info, they do seem to achieve the same goal, again, generally...
In my experience though, while ARCG's bass control should work in theory, the end results did work too well for me. I am still testing and experimenting but based on my tons of REW graphs, for two subs (wanted to try more but a) no time, b) my AVM70 has only two independent subouts), DLBC only required tweaking the crossover a little, whereas ARCG seem to make things worse.

I think the algorithm for integrating the bass between multiple speakers are very difficult to figure, and I guess now we know why until very recently, Audyssey has been the only RC software that at least attempt to do such so called bass control by time aligning them, and DL have been doing it well in leveraging on their work on impulse response, though no official bass control, until recently. Anthem finally launched their own bass control only last year, though it does not work well (by our standards), I am confident they will have it figured out eventually, hopefully soon, to the point it could be comparable to that of DL.

 

[Tafelberg]

I am looking for an AVR for my 5.2 setup that will work with DIRAC ART.

Which Denon would you buy if you had a budget of around $2000 for the AVR only (not including the cost of DIRAC ART)... the AVR-X3800H or the AVR-X4800H?

The AVR-X3800H got a fairly bad review from @amirm, while the AVR-X4800H got a good review.

Denon AVR-X3800H Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Denon AVR-X3800H 9.4 Home Theater Audio/Video Receiver. It was kindly drop shipped to me by a member and costs US $1,699. Not much to say about the look of the unit as it is pretty much similar/same as last generations. Here is the back panel...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Denon AVR-X4800H AVR Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Denon AVR-X4800H 9.4 home theater receiver. It was kindly drop shipped by a member and costs US $2499. While the look is the same as previous generations, the feel of the control knobs is much improved which I appreciate. Menu system is also...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[equinox_uk]

Looks the firmware / bass control update is a next week thing:

BIG Denon Marantz Feature Updates Livestream Event!

We livestream with Phil Jones of Masimo to discuss BIG feature updates to Denon and Marantz products. Dirac Live Bass Control is now available for select Den...

www.youtube.com

 

[theREALdotnet]

I doubt it. But would like to see some facts to the contrary.

I’d say that with one subwoofer and a pair of stereo speakers one can do the integration with tools like REW, Rephase, etc. With additional subwoofers it becomes more complex and requires much more time and effort. With two subs DLBC was worth it for me, especially since I like to experiment with speaker and sub placement.

Someone who is not familiar with REW or Rephase etc., or the concepts behind adjusting levels and time alignment, may well find DLBC worthwhile even with just one sub.

 

[sweetchaos]

Which Denon would you buy if you had a budget of around $2000 for the AVR only (not including the cost of DIRAC ART)... the AVR-X3800H or the AVR-X4800H?

One step at a time....

They haven't got the firmware for Dirac Live Bass Control yet (ETA 6 days now...).
ART is a ways off.

 

[peng]

The AVR-X3800H got a fairly bad review from @amirm, while the AVR-X4800H got a good review.

Denon AVR-X3800H Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Denon AVR-X3800H 9.4 Home Theater Audio/Video Receiver. It was kindly drop shipped to me by a member and costs US $1,699. Not much to say about the look of the unit as it is pretty much similar/same as last generations. Here is the back panel...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Denon AVR-X4800H AVR Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Denon AVR-X4800H 9.4 home theater receiver. It was kindly drop shipped by a member and costs US $2499. While the look is the same as previous generations, the feel of the control knobs is much improved which I appreciate. Menu system is also...

www.audiosciencereview.com

The X3800H, imo, is a high value AVR. Surely, if you are referring to his comments such as those below, you may think it performed poorly, but if you think about it carefully, it isn't really poor in absolute sense.

Amir's comments in that review:

I was fair bit disappointed to see the high distortion spikes which caused the unit to underperform the AVR-X3700H by some 10 dB. This naturally knocks down the positioning of the unit by good bit in our SINAD ranking:

With amps shut off, the 3700H was happy to go 2.0 volts. So fairly large degradation here. Company explanation was that this was good enough for "99%" of the external amps out there. Be that as it may, it still doesn't explain the drop in performance at the peak level (101 dB for 3700 vs 95 for 3800).

On the slightly more positive side:

Fortunately dynamic range is unchanged from last generation:

All in all, the amplifier is as performant as before.

and his conclusion:

Denon had been my "goto" recommendation for AVRs and even AVPs. When anyone asked me about either, I would just say "get a Denon AVR." While subjectively the performance of this new generation may be similar, I can't accept the regression in objective measured performance.

It is with much sadness that I cannot recommend the Denon AVR-X3800H.

I am not trying to contradict your point, but I took the time to highlight Amir's comment so that for anyone who felt it was a bad review, could read his comment careful and put things in context/perspective.

For example, note the following:

- Amir's reference was the previous models such as the X3700H and he focused mainly of the SINAD of the preamp/dac section at level pass 1.4 V.
- The X3700H's performance on that, was much better than many of the AVRs, and AVPs such as the Marantz AV7705, SR7015, even the AV8805A, and a couple NAD, Arcam units that are at much higher price points

So while you are right, by his standards, the unit perform poorly, but again he used a high bar. If he were to use those NAD and at least one or more Arcam models, as well as one Anthem models, or the much more expensive Marantz SR7015, AV7705, that a lot of users are very happy with, then you won't feel the X3800H's performance is poor any more.

Finally, even if you very unforgiving on SINAD of the pre outs, for a lot of applications including yours, you may not need the pre outs to get higher than 1.4 to 1.5 V, remember Amir's comments: "101 dB for 3700 vs 95 for 3800"

I highly doubt humans could easily hear the 6 dB difference in SINAD, 95 dB is 0.0018% THD+N, and 85 dB is 0.0056%, in that sense the 3800 can meet or likely beat the published specs.

To conclude, yes it is poor relative to the previous year models in terms of pre out SINAD, but it is not wise to base decision on that one count. For example, if you use the unit as an AVR, then there is hardly any difference in performance between the 3800 and many other AVRs reviewed on ASR.

Then the other advantages of the 3800 can be considered, such as 4 independent subwoofer outputs, choice of directional bass, ability to use Direct Live (paid options), multiple HDMI2.1/8K, 4K/120 Hz ports instead of just 1, among a few other features that may be important to you.

 

[Tafelberg]

Thanks @peng! Your thoughtful comments really put things in perspective.

Given that the X3800H goes for 'only' $1154 on Amazon at the moment, I agree with you that it is a high value AVR. And as you mentioned, having 4 independent subwoofers outputs is an important feature that I am looking for.

Now, if we can just get confirmation that the X3800H will be DIRAC Base Control, and eventually ART compatible, I will buy one today. But I am kinda on the fence... I don't want to buy one now, and a few months later, it turns out that it is not ART compatible.

What do you think are the odds that it will be ART compatible?

Amazon.com

 

[stren]

qq

Thanks @peng! Your thoughtful comments really put things in perspective.

Given that the X3800H goes for 'only' $1154 on Amazon at the moment, I agree with you that it is a high value AVR. And as you mentioned, having 4 independent subwoofers outputs is an important feature that I am looking for.

Now, if we can just get confirmation that the X3800H will be DIRAC Base Control, and eventually ART compatible, I will buy one today. But I am kinda on the fence... I don't want to buy one now, and a few months later, it turns out that it is not ART compatible.

What do you think are the odds that it will be ART compatible?

Amazon.com

I mean, if it's a must then wait. Personally I'm waiting as I hate DLC type launches. Wake me up when the complete product is ready - whether that is the 3800h or 3900h...

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

I'll stick with Anthem or Audyssey. Dirac is still growing up

 

[kwoody51]

I am looking for an AVR for my 5.2 setup that will work with DIRAC ART.

Which Denon would you buy if you had a budget of around $2000 for the AVR only (not including the cost of DIRAC ART)... the AVR-X3800H or the AVR-X4800H?

The AVR-X3800H got a fairly bad review from @amirm, while the AVR-X4800H got a good review.

Denon AVR-X3800H Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Denon AVR-X3800H 9.4 Home Theater Audio/Video Receiver. It was kindly drop shipped to me by a member and costs US $1,699. Not much to say about the look of the unit as it is pretty much similar/same as last generations. Here is the back panel...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Denon AVR-X4800H AVR Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Denon AVR-X4800H 9.4 home theater receiver. It was kindly drop shipped by a member and costs US $2499. While the look is the same as previous generations, the feel of the control knobs is much improved which I appreciate. Menu system is also...

www.audiosciencereview.com

X3800 is ~$900 on Adorama using CYBEWE08 during checkout. Shipping is free.

They had the x4800 earlier for ~$1400.

 

[DutchJay]

I'll stick with Anthem or Audyssey. Dirac is still growing up

Think this is highly dependent on the situation. In non ideal rooms the standard dirac live already add significant (more) value (than Audyssey)

I have such a room and dirac is very noticeably better than Audyssey. Better balance, more detail, better bass management..

 

[Exalix]

In case you where wondering.

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/the-official-2022-23-marantz-av-10-flagship-dirac-processor-owners-thread-read-the-1st-page.3261194/post-63010977

 

[equinox_uk]

In case you where wondering.

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/the-official-2022-23-marantz-av-10-flagship-dirac-processor-owners-thread-read-the-1st-page.3261194/post-63010977

Thanks for linking this. Here’s hoping they do launch before Xmas and they also offer a Xmas sale price!

 

[broncogr]

The DLBC firmware is out for the A1H

 

[multisport4me]

Updating the Marantz AV10 right NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[sweetchaos]

Just checked all Denon/Marantz Dirac Live website links, and none were updated yet.

 

[multisport4me]

Just checked all Denon/Marantz Dirac Live website links, and none were updated yet.

Should we expect everything to be updated simultaneously? Firmware looks to be there - which is logical since it cost nothing to download now. Had they put up on Dirac and sold licenses without firmware, people would have bitched about that. Give them a few hours. It seems obvious it is finally here!

 

[multisport4me]

This is interesting - I've don't recall ever seeing the AV10 (or SACD 30n) show up under Roon Ready. But both are "uncertified" so still can't use RAAT.