Dirac ART is now running on beta FW for Denon Xx800H AVRs!

[IamJF]

Storm Audio has exclusive rights to Dirac ART for at least this year. But even when it's comming in the next generation of Denon Receivers it would be REALLY cool to have that system at that pricepoint!
Now just make a big preamp with XLR and digital outputs ... will buy on day 1.

 

[TimoJ]

Storm Audio has exclusive rights to Dirac ART for at least this year.

No, they had it until October 2023.

 

[jtatknox]

OK I still haven't taken the X4800H out of the box, but I bit the bullet and bought a Black Friday full range Dirac license today. I was hoping that I might be able to buy a full range plus multi-sub DLBC bundle at 30% off but it seems like Denon sort of flubbed the release of U32 based on their press release not matching up with the firmware or Dirac's website. I will email Dirac asking for some help here...

 

[SCG]

OK I still haven't taken the X4800H out of the box, but I bit the bullet and bought a Black Friday full range Dirac license today. I was hoping that I might be able to buy a full range plus multi-sub DLBC bundle at 30% off but it seems like Denon sort of flubbed the release of U32 based on their press release not matching up with the firmware or Dirac's website. I will email Dirac asking for some help here...

Based on several forums, a lot of us were planing the same thing until Denon pulled the DLBC info from their page, I reached out to Dirac also on Friday and we'll see what they say, but most likely it will be a blame game, and they won't pre-sell a license like Audyssey does.

Saw a video 4 months ago where Audioholics was going to compare Audyssey MultEQ-X to Dirac DLRC with DLBC on a Marantz AV10. They really liked MultEQ-X but couldn't compare to Dirac as the results/measurements where completely off. They contacted Marantz and confirmed the issue but no updates have been issued since then. So it appears that there's still a Denon/Marantz + Dirac DLBC issue.

Got the same killer deal. This is my Dirac insurance policy against MiniDSP blowing it.

It appears they are doing no better and still in a holding pattern as it sounds like they think it's not needed if this is still the most up to date info from them.

Understanding the various Dirac Live versions

Dirac Live is a room Correction technology by Dirac Research. It comes in various versions so best for us to clarify the differences so you can compare Apples to Apples. - Full Frequency vs low frequency: Dirac live isn't the same on all OEM...

support.minidsp.com

 

[Sammy135]

What kind of amp do you guys think is truly needed to run ART?

From my understanding, all speakers become full range, and if the speakers are about 4 ohm nominal (most ht speakers are), I think we're entering a new age of amplifier demand to run ART properly.

I'm thinking these hypex based class d boards, at 200 watt at 8 ohm and 400 watt at 4 ohm real all channel driven, like the monoprice or buckeye, plugging into two different 15 amp fuse receptacles?

I dont think these amps with fake "200 watt" amps all channel driven claims, but in reality only in stereo, and 50% less in all channel is going to cut it. It probably worked with yesterday's technology at an 80hz crossover, but I dont think they'll cut it if ART is playing speakers full range.

 

[IamJF]

There are good videos online/youtube how ART is working - not as you describe.
You can define the range every speaker is contributing to the result. So when your rears are able to give 50Hz you can let them run from there and they can add in defeating your 60Hz resonance but not your 30Hz resonance. You can also define how MUCH they add to the system, like -6dB or -10dB. That's really clever solved! Your ceiling speakers will probably not do anything for the system and that's fine.
To really make it work you would need some subwoofers over the room which are able to produce enough spl for good correction.

 

[DutchJay]

What kind of amp do you guys think is truly needed to run ART?

From my understanding, all speakers become full range, and if the speakers are about 4 ohm nominal (most ht speakers are), I think we're entering a new age of amplifier demand to run ART properly.

I'm thinking these hypex based class d boards, at 200 watt at 8 ohm and 400 watt at 4 ohm real all channel driven, like the monoprice or buckeye, plugging into two different 15 amp fuse receptacles?

I dont think these amps with fake "200 watt" amps all channel driven claims, but in reality only in stereo, and 50% less in all channel is going to cut it. It probably worked with yesterday's technology at an 80hz crossover, but I dont think they'll cut it if ART is playing speakers full range.

Hey, good point. A dirac subject matter expert presented this topic in an interview with storm audio representative.

ART does not need all channels to be full range. ART already works in a stereo setup. Left will correct right and visa versa. So say you have a 5.2 and you can run your mains full range, in that scenario you will have 4 channels that can correct full range: FL/FR plus 2 subs. The rears will be crossed over at 60 or 80 hz so they will correct above 80 hz only to the 150hz [was that the upper range of ART?]. So even they are not doing nothing.

That said I totally agree that a lot of AVR's can't even runs the mains full range. That is why I have a quality amp for FR and FL supporting my denon 3800h. Think I should be fine for ART in that set up. When it finally comes!!! ; )

 

[SCG]

ART currently works up to 150hz (they talked about increasing it and have had beta's up to 500hz) so surrounds and Atmos speakers will be active if you include them in the ART configuration, and if crossed over at 60hz, then 60hz-150hz is not trivial, especially if other speakers are already playing and needing correction.

So this could require amps that are able to drive all channels at higher levels if you include most/all your speakers in the ART config. Audioholics bench tested the Marantz Amp 10 and it was the only amp they ever tested that had the capability to drive all channels to 100% full power simultaneously.

Now you get in the realm of what volume level do you listen at, how is the content mixed, what efficiency are your amps and speakers, what is your house AC power circuit capabilities?

But for now they don't even offer DLBC little lone ART on Denon.

Edited: Corrected typo of 170hz to 150hz

 

[IamJF]

Ah I also saw a demo video where ART is limited to 150Hz, 170 is nice. But at higher frequencies rooms get more and more stochastic - it get's impossible to correct actively.
So you still need a LOT of absorption, at least 10cm deep, ART just helps with the lowest frequencies.

I know from ambisonics and noise chancellation/beam steering algorithms that often the multible speakers/microphones only have to add/subtract a very little amount but sometimes single speakers need to put out high volumes.
It seems they where able to solve these equations so that the user can set the maximum level and the frequency range individually and the algorithm automaticly searches the best solution for chancellation of room problems. That's a BIG achievment cause that's already not easy for a fixed setup and get's way harder with every variable you add!
And when it really works as good as first trials show this could be a big step for home cinema installations.

 

[DutchJay]

Is there a threat where storm audio users share their experience with ART? That group are the only ones with hands on experience right?

 

[IamJF]

Here is a good video where you see the calibration process and functions of Dirac and ART - but it's in German:

I'm not shure if there are a lot of storm users out there with active ART. This video was from a biger retailer with the absolutely first version of the system 5 month ago. For a good working system you probably have to add at least 2 subwoofers in the back, so I would suggest it's mainly good for new cinemas where you plan accordingly.
But there must be a few!

 

[pogo]

What kind of amp do you guys think is truly needed to run ART?

ART assumes a compression-free playing system at any volume during co-optimisation. If this is not guaranteed, audible correction artefacts may even be produced.

 

[TimoJ]

ART currently works up to 170hz

No, the limit is still 150Hz.

 

[SCG]

Typo corrected

 

[IamJF]

ART assumes a compression-free playing system at any volume during co-optimisation. If this is not guaranteed, audible correction artefacts may even be produced.

These algorithms always need a linear system!
That's why microphones in mobile phones are often spec'd with 120-130dBSpl cause wind noise reduction can only work with a linear input, as soon as the mic distorts everything falls appart and it get's loud and nasty.

 

[Frank207be]

So you'll need much larger speakers and beefier amps than most of us (80%?) use to fully benefit from ART?

 

[GXAlan]

So you'll need much larger speakers and beefier amps than most of us (80%?) use to fully benefit from ART?

Yes. In part, this is why it launched with StormAudio.

On the other hand, the claim is that a pair of 2 floor standing speakers can still benefit from Dirac ART and ART goes up above 80 Hz.

What’s important is that at YOUR listening levels, your speakers have reserve in the bass frequencies to tune.

But yes, the maximum benefit comes from infinite power and full bandwidth speakers.

 

[Frank207be]

All of a sudden the dual 15" woofers for my 2024 DIY LCR speaker project don't look so exaggerated anymore.

 

[IamJF]

So you'll need much larger speakers and beefier amps than most of us (80%?) use to fully benefit from ART?

No! You can restrict the frequency reange for every speaker in use.
But with small rears and hights you would need at least 2 additional subwoofers in the back of the room to get useful correction of low frequencies.

When you can afford the StormAudio Preamp this 2-4 subs schouldn't be the problem ;-)

 

[broncogr]

DLBC shows as available for Cinema 40 on Dirac page.
Marantz CINEMA 40 – Dirac
I am sure all other eligible D&M AVRs and AVPs will follow soon