Denon AVR-X8500H AVR Review

[Frontino]

I thought the ability of an amp to increse current into a lower resistance was determined by its output impedance.

Are you positively confirming that, below its rated output, the X8500H can almost double its current from 8 to 4 ohms?

 

[peng]

I thought the ability of an amp to increse current into a lower resistance was determined by its output impedance.

Are you positively confirming that, below its rated output, the X8500H can almost double its current from 8 to 4 ohms?

It is mainly determined by the voltage and current limits of the power supply and output devices.

To your second question, it is arguably yes for sure, but it is a moot point that makes little sense. For example, if the amp is operating at below 25% of its rated output at all times, then of course the output current into a 4 ohm load will be almost 2x that it would output into an 8 ohm load. But any amp can do that anyway, there is nothing special about it.

 

[Frontino]

If the amp is operating at below 25% of its rated output at all times, then of course the output current into a 4 ohm load will be almost 2x that it would output into an 8 ohm load. But any amp can do that anyway, there is nothing special about it.

So, the amp must be set at -6 dB of its rated power and not -3 dB?

 

[peng]

So, the amp must be set at -6 dB of its rated power and not -3 dB?

I hope not, there is no need to do so, unless the amp manufacturer wants to underrate the amp in order to entice some audiophiles who might automatically assume that since the amp can "double down" and buy it for that unreal reason. Many audiophiles are technically savvy with specs and measurements but some are not and would get mislead by specs and/or online forum hearsay.

 

[TheMiracle]

i Looked everywhere but can seem to find an answer, , I have the chance to buy a disscounted used X8500H, I Run a 11.1 (7.2.4) on my X6500
few times i cranked the volume all the way with my setup while listening music, and never hear a movie past 0 db
my question is, if i dont do that very often, will it be a good call to buy this discounted x8500h or im better off waiting something else in the future like the new 15.1 that will be released in the future (always thinking i will not use 15.1 channels, so my question is purely in form of sound quality and pressure in my room
11.1*9.1*7.1)
Im also biased to buy it because of this specification here , what does this means, or do? in terms of power and or quality, is it enough to buy a 2000 US more expensive unit?
it seems its different from the x6500h

Thank you

Mono Block Power Amp Construction

Yes (L/R separated)

 

[peng]

i Looked everywhere but can seem to find an answer, , I have the chance to buy a disscounted used X8500H, I Run a 11.1 (7.2.4) on my X6500
few times i cranked the volume all the way with my setup while listening music, and never hear a movie past 0 db
my question is, if i dont do that very often, will it be a good call to buy this discounted x8500h or im better off waiting something else in the future like the new 15.1 that will be released in the future (always thinking i will not use 15.1 channels, so my question is purely in form of sound quality and pressure in my room
11.1*9.1*7.1)
Im also biased to buy it because of this specification here , what does this means, or do? in terms of power and or quality, is it enough to buy a 2000 US more expensive unit?
it seems its different from the x6500h

Thank you

Mono Block Power Amp Construction

Yes (L/R separated)

Pretty sure if you don't know which one is playing, unless pushed to near their clipping point, the X6500H will sound the same as the X8500H, based on their same amp sections, same vol, DAC, opamp ICs, at least in stereo, direct and pure direct modes when no dsp are used. The X8500H's dac specs are indeed better, but how many people can hear the difference between the AK4490 and AK4458? I think most would agree that would be tough even in a lab environment.

 

[TheMiracle]

Pretty sure if you don't know which one is playing, unless pushed to near their clipping point, the X6500H will sound the same as the X8500H, based on their same amp sections, same vol, DAC, opamp ICs, at least in stereo, direct and pure direct modes when no dsp are used. The X8500H's dac specs are indeed better, but how many people can hear the difference between the AK4490 and AK4458? I think most would agree that would be tough even in a lab environment.

Ok then , yes I know that probably 50w more are needed at this point to increase 1db , and if the sound quality is the same , I think it is not worth it , just for the sake of it , what does the monoblock separated means ? and what does it means for sound ? More separation ? Or is that like saying it sound better because I have 1000000 US dollars cables ?

 

[peng]

Ok then , yes I know that probably 50w more are needed at this point to increase 1db , and if the sound quality is the same , I think it is not worth it , just for the sake of it , what does the monoblock separated means ? and what does it means for sound ? More separation ? Or is that like saying it sound better because I have 1000000 US dollars cables ?

Yes, one would think that separation should be better, all else being equal, but there are other factors too so it is probably better to go with the measurements when available. Keep in mind those are no "monoblock", but what D+M called "monolithic construction" that we don't know exactly what it means but we could guess..

You can compare the measurements yourself, the X6500H has not been reviewed/measured but I think it would be very similar to that of the AVR-X3600H:

To my eyes, they are all roughly the same, not great but good enough to have no audible difference for normal human's hearing..

You can take a read of bugguyca's post in the link, I thought it is informative:

Denon AVR-X3800H Review

The full package with DL, and multi-sub DLBC is around US$800 So yes, it takes the AVR up to a completely different pice category! Given what you gain, and given the D&M AVR's already have Audyssey onboard, I would find this price difficult to justify. If you are keen on the Dirac based...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[TheMiracle]

Yes, one would think that separation should be better, all else being equal, but there are other factors too so it is probably better to go with the measurements when available. Keep in mind those are no "monoblock", but what D+M called "monolithic construction" that we don't know exactly what it means but we could guess..

You can compare the measurements yourself, the X6500H has not been reviewed/measured but I think it would be very similar to that of the AVR-X3600H:

To my eyes, they are all roughly the same, not great but good enough to have no audible difference for normal human's hearing..

You can take a read of bugguyca's post in the link, I thought it is informative:

Denon AVR-X3800H Review

The full package with DL, and multi-sub DLBC is around US$800 So yes, it takes the AVR up to a completely different pice category! Given what you gain, and given the D&M AVR's already have Audyssey onboard, I would find this price difficult to justify. If you are keen on the Dirac based...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Thank you very much , but are this comparisons between x6500h and x8500h ?

 

[peng]

Thank you very much , but are this comparisons between x6500h and x8500h ?

No, and I explained the reason..

 

[TheMiracle]

No, and I explained the reason..

Excellent , and sorry , remember I am from Argentina , so in the end I should stick with x6500h , thank you very very much

 

[peng]

Excellent , and sorry , remember I am from Argentina , so in the end I should stick with x6500h , thank you very very much

If you can hold on to it until the supply chain issues are over, something really better will come, hopefully.

 

[TheMiracle]

Ok , i m looking forward the ah1 that will have 15 powered channels , but if it will be the same sound , I will keep my x6500h for ever

 

[bo_knows]

Ok , i m looking forward the ah1 that will have 15 powered channels , but if it will be the same sound , I will keep my x6500h for ever

Denon is assuring us that this (AH1) will be the BEST sounding AVR so far. Make what you want out of it but their sounds master sounds quite confident.

 

[peng]

Denon is assuring us that this (AH1) will be the BEST sounding AVR so far. Make what you want out of it but their sounds master sounds quite confident.

Haha, easy for him to say, I am also confident that in one of those DBT Harman conducted, if they put the A1H against even the AVR-X3600H in two channel stereo direct mode driving 8 ohm nominal 92 dB/2.83V/m speakers, the master will not be able to identify which one he listens to unless the X3600H is pushed to near clipping..

Between the two I will definitely take the A1H for sure regardless.

 

[Acerun]

Was there ever any consensus as to how to tell if an X8500H is AKM or not? Do we believe that the production date is represented by the first four digits of the serial number? Thanks.

 

[peng]

Was there ever any consensus as to how to tell if an X8500H is AKM or not? Do we believe that the production date is represented by the first four digits of the serial number? Thanks.

Good luck, it seems that manufacturers don't usually want people to know which dac is in when they substitute it with a lower model. The non AKM version likely have to ES9010K2M because that's what's found in the AV8805A, at least the one that was taken apart for photos (linked somewhere on ASR). The AV8805 and X8500H shared the same DAC chips so that most likely is the case for the 8805A and X8500HA. It is highly possible that the X8500H seems to have been discontinued already (not shown on the Denon website), would have the AKM chip as they likely were produced prior to the AKM chip shortage started in the spring of 2020.

 

[Acerun]

Good luck, it seems that manufacturers don't usually want people to know which dac is in when they substitute it with a lower model. The non AKM version likely have to ES9010K2M because that's what's found in the AV8805A, at least the one that was taken apart for photos (linked somewhere on ASR). The AV8805 and X8500H shared the same DAC chips so that most likely is the case for the 8805A and X8500HA. It is highly possible that the X8500H seems to have been discontinued already (not shown on the Denon website), would have the AKM chip as they likely were produced prior to the AKM chip shortage started in the spring of 2020.

Right. Do you think the first four digits of the serial number represent the month and year of production, and units under 70,000 for the last 5 digits of the serial number are valid indicators of AKM chip presence?

 

[Acerun]

So if an X8500H had a serial number that started with 1518, that unit perhaps was built in 2018, which was the first year of production I believe...Could the 15 mean January 5th? The last 5 digits of 00556 could potentially correspond to a very early production unit which would map to the possible 1518 (Jan 5, 2018?) number at the beginning of the serial number.

 

[Acerun]

I don't know, again, try contacting Anthem. They must have the answer.

Sorry, who is Anthem?