Denon AVR-X4800H AVR Review

[rocketroberto]

I am not sure I understand your question. If you meant running DLBC on your Mac, then of course you can have the sound output from the Denon via HDMI, that's if you already have the PC licence for DLBC.

The MRX 740 includes ARCG but it has only 1 sub channel, the 2nd one is paralleled with the 1st one, just like a Y connection. Also, DLBC, imo is more effective and easier to customi

I am not sure I understand your question. If you meant running DLBC on your Mac, then of course you can have the sound output from the Denon via HDMI, that's if you already have the PC licence for DLBC.

The MRX 740 includes ARCG but it has only 1 sub channel, the 2nd one is paralleled with the 1st one, just like a Y connection. Also, DLBC, imo is more effective and easier to customize.

Thx. Yes, I meant strictly running Dirac + DLBC on the mac. So, Dirac will adjust my audio coming from the mac.

However if I go that route (dirac on mac, not on the denon), I assume that for the audio going from my tv into the denon, I’ll just have to use audussey for that .

 

[peng]

Thx. Yes, I meant strictly running Dirac + DLBC on the mac. So, Dirac will adjust my audio coming from the mac.

However if I go that route (dirac on mac, not on the denon), I assume that for the audio going from my tv into the denon, I’ll just have to use audussey for that .

Okay, in that case yes, running DLBC on your Mac will work with the Denon via hdmi for music and videos running from the mac only. Media contents run via your TV and other devices, you will have to use Audyssey

 

[evert]

You can do it, just a little more work changing your settings back and forth. For simplicity, use of an ext. amp if the best way. Just grab one of those Fosi Audio V3 amp and you are all set.

Fosi Audio V3 300W x2 2 Channel Hi-Fi Stereo Audio Amplifier

This compact yet powerful amplifier delivers a maximum power output of 600W into two channels, ensuring a captivating and high-fidelity sound experience.

fosiaudio.com

Wouldn't it be simpler to add a pure power amplifier, or do I need the volume control?

 

[peng]

Wouldn't it be simpler to add a pure power amplifier, or do I need the volume control?

The Fosi Audio V3's volume control is passive, so you can set it to maximum and use it as a "pure" power amp.

 

[techsamurai]

So I've powered the 4800h fronts with my toroidal SR8002.

I've compared the music over the past few hours and when playing Dire Strait's Where Do You Think You're Going? (amazing song) it's not even a match. I even brought my daughter to hear the song since she grew up with it. She was sitting and moving while the 8002 played and was very bored when the Denon played.

I've spent so much time trying to understand and evaluate the sound of the 4800h instead of enjoying it.

And if the 4800h takes such a beating, I can't help but wonder what Denon's been up to over the past 15 years.

I almost wish Denon's engineers can come to my room and fix this.

 

[Steve Dallas]

I’ve a question about Dirac on the denon vs PC. (I guess I don’t understand ‘how’ it runs).

Big picture is that i noticed there’s no DLBC for the x4800h yet. If I’m planning on exclusively streaming 2.1 music from a MAC via hdmi to the denon (only using denon for 3.1 tv/movies) can I just buy Dirac live and dlbc for the Mac? Does Dirac ‘recommend’ settings for me to make with my speakers? Or does it actually tweak the audio stream real-time as it’s being sent?

Or does Dirac it have to be supported by (and ‘running on’) the denon?

DLBC is interesting to me because I have a sub that I can’t move around, and the room setup is a little funky.

The x4800h is now $1800 on Amazon but I’m also still very tempted to get the anthem mrx740 at $3k since its arcg is all included and apparently very close to Dirac.

If you run Dirac and DLBC on your Mac and connect it to the 4800 via HDMI with Audyssey disabled, it will work, but the 4800 will still manage the sub crossover and level even in pure direct mode. So you may have to do some tweaking to get it all working together.

Thanks for posting the price change on Amazon. I purchased one last week for $385 more. Just chatted with an Amazon rep, and she said the only way to get one at the lower price is to return mine and order it again. So I did. Seems a terribly inefficient waste of resources. They no longer have price match guarantees--even to their own prices. In any case, you just saved me $385, so thanks again.

You may not need Dirac to get good results from your sub. Here is a graph showing my 4700 in pure direct mode vs. one of the Audyssey calibrations I did. Audyssey gets good results. By adjusting sub phase and distance from the wall, I was able to improve upon this. Even though I use Dirac in other areas, I feel no need to use it in this room.

 

[EWL5]

If you run Dirac and DLBC on your Mac and connect it to the 4800 via HDMI with Audyssey disabled, it will work, but the 4800 will still manage the sub crossover and level even in pure direct mode. So you may have to do some tweaking to get it all working together.

Thanks for posting the price change on Amazon. I purchased one last week for $385 more. Just chatted with an Amazon rep, and she said the only way to get one at the lower price is to return mine and order it again. So I did. Seems a terribly inefficient waste of resources. They no longer have price match guarantees--even to their own prices. In any case, you just saved me $385, so thanks again.

You may not need Dirac to get good results from your sub. Here is a graph showing my 4700 in pure direct mode vs. one of the Audyssey calibrations I did. Audyssey gets good results. By adjusting sub phase and distance from the wall, I was able to improve upon this. Even though I use Dirac in other areas, I feel no need to use it in this room.

View attachment 319139

View attachment 319140

I would have had the local Best Buy price match the new Amazon price and return the Amazon unit. I earn rewards w/Best Buy! Amazon has no such loyalty program!

 

[rocketroberto]

If you run Dirac and DLBC on your Mac and connect it to the 4800 via HDMI with Audyssey disabled, it will work, but the 4800 will still manage the sub crossover and level even in pure direct mode. So you may have to do some tweaking to get it all working together.

Thanks for posting the price change on Amazon. I purchased one last week for $385 more. Just chatted with an Amazon rep, and she said the only way to get one at the lower price is to return mine and order it again. So I did. Seems a terribly inefficient waste of resources. They no longer have price match guarantees--even to their own prices. In any case, you just saved me $385, so thanks again.

You may not need Dirac to get good results from your sub. Here is a graph showing my 4700 in pure direct mode vs. one of the Audyssey calibrations I did. Audyssey gets good results. By adjusting sub phase and distance from the wall, I was able to improve upon this. Even though I use Dirac in other areas, I feel no need to use it in this room.

View attachment 319139

View attachment 319140

Glad you saved some $$$ !

Thx for the notes. I’m not familiar with all these graphs but my take is that you’re saying even just with Audyssey, the subwoofer frequencies are reasonably flattened out. (And thus just the Dirac full range license would be adequate, to help smooth out the rest of the curve… with the understanding that Dirac will do a much better job than Audyssey)

 

[VintageFlanker]

The Denon AVR-X4800H was on sale for $1399

It is at 1399€ as well at Amazon DE :

(Europe) Master Deals Thread on Audio Product Sales

JBL 4312G Ghost Edition 949 £ for a pair !

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[rocketroberto]

Now it’s $1700 at Amazon US. I was previously gonna go for it but now I’m looking at my existing 4300h and thinking maybe it’s still fine? (Because I’ve decided I’ll run Dirac on my Mac, for 2.1 music listening. The denon will only be for 3.1 tv/movies, maybe 5.1 eventually. I’m also using an external amp for power).

So I wonder if the 4800 really has anything extra or ‘better’ that I’ll need. Hmmmm

One minor thing: I want to use Audyssey when the tv HDMI input is active . But I want it in pure direct mode when the Mac HDMI input is active. Anybody know if this can be configured in the 4800? (It can’t in the 4300, afaik). But again, that alone isn’t worth $1700 regardless.

 

[techsamurai]

Just FYI - the 4800h with its current firmware is having Arc issues with intermittent dropouts. These are resolved if you use an optical cable from your TV.

These have been confirmed by other owners who have swapped out units and have the issue with both units.

I'm sure Denon will fix it but if you're relying on ARC, you may have to use an optical cable which might be an issue if you can't easily run another cable to the TV if it's on the wall or fireplace etc.

 

[peng]

Now it’s $1700 at Amazon US. I was previously gonna go for it but now I’m looking at my existing 4300h and thinking maybe it’s still fine? (Because I’ve decided I’ll run Dirac on my Mac, for 2.1 music listening. The denon will only be for 3.1 tv/movies, maybe 5.1 eventually. I’m also using an external amp for power).

So I wonder if the 4800 really has anything extra or ‘better’ that I’ll need. Hmmmm

One minor thing: I want to use Audyssey when the tv HDMI input is active . But I want it in pure direct mode when the Mac HDMI input is active. Anybody know if this can be configured in the 4800? (It can’t in the 4300, afaik). But again, that alone isn’t worth $1700 regardless.

Sounds to me you are fine. Some of the x4300h has the AK4458 dac and that would be bonus.

 

[CapMan]

I've compared the music over the past few hours and when playing Dire Strait's Where Do You Think You're Going? (amazing song) it's not even a match. I even brought my daughter to hear the song since she grew up with it. She was sitting and moving while the 8002 played and was very bored when the Denon played.

Do the test double blind, both set ups accurately level matched and report back.

 

[peng]

Do the test double blind, both set ups accurately level matched and report back.

You should know by now that will never happen! Once people got it in their mind that different electronics have different sound signature by design, it is almost impossible to convince them to do DBT.

 

[techsamurai]

Do the test double blind, both set ups accurately level matched and report back.

Yeah they are level matched. There's no point in doing it blind. It's very easy to hear. It's like looking at blue and red. There's no way to mistake one for the other.

The 4800h has a massive soundstage but the speakers don't disappear, in fact, I look at them when I hear sounds. It's also airy and very good for background music since the music is good but never engaging. It's drum heavy at the expense of guitars and a bit of vocal volume and voice nuance.

The 8002's soundstage is smaller but it paints an insanely detailed picture with the speakers disappearing and the emotion in the voice coming through at completely different levels than the 4800h, guitars sound impossibly good.

 

[peng]

Yeah they are level matched. There's no point in doing it blind. It's very easy to hear. It's like looking at blue and red. There's no way to mistake one for the other.

The 4800h has a massive soundstage but the speakers don't disappear, in fact, I look at them when I hear sounds. It's also airy and very good for background music since the music is good but never engaging. It's drum heavy at the expense of guitars and a bit of vocal volume and voice nuance.

The 8002's soundstage is smaller but it paints an insanely detailed picture with the speakers disappearing and the emotion in the voice coming through at completely different levels than the 4800h, guitars sound impossibly good.

I believe you, but the fact is, many others don't hear such different sound signatures when compared in apples to apples DBT and those who, like you, heard the difference, would not feel the need to, because of reasons you cited. That's why I said it would be almost impossible to convince the believers to do DBT.

 

[peng]

There are so many settings on the Denon AVR that it can easily sound fine or crappy. If the user isn't aware of how to use the Audyssey app to customize the EQ settings to their liking I'm confident the Denon receiver will lose out in AB tests with several integrated amps. It helps to test with the UMIK and REW and be aware of the sound curve you desire. Otherwise, an AB test between a Denon AVR only in PURE mode with another device is pretty much meaningless. If you're not willing to learn all the in's and out's of Audyssey it might be best to hire someone to complete the initial room setup. Don't let the expert leave until you are totally excited about the sound.

It isn't meaningless to him though, ref post#1502 lol.. I believe he compared the 4800's amp to the SR8002's, same preamp/dac. Based on specs and measurements, there is no apparent reasons for the big difference he described, but he heard what he heard.

 

[techsamurai]

I believe you, but the fact is, many others don't hear such different sound signatures when compared in apples to apples DBT and those who, like you, heard the difference, would not feel the need to, because of reasons you cited. That's why I said it would be almost impossible to convince the believers to do DBT.

I don't think I can set up a DBT with 2 AVRs and even if I did, there's no way I would think blue is red. To your point, though, if these were both blue with a simple shade difference, I would certainly mistake them as being the same and I can see that being the case for many people out there.

 

[techsamurai]

Based on specs and measurements, there is no apparent reasons for the big difference he described, but he heard what he heard.

I expected the same but I'm finding out that these things are as different as Minivans vs SUV vs sports cars. It reminds me of the story of an avid Marantz fan who owned 15 Marantz vintage receivers then heard a Sansui and traded in their top-of-the-line 2275 for a 9090 stating it's clearly better and that's obvious in seconds. And they knew Marantz sound as well as Saul Marantz.

I now own a 4800h so I have a vested interest in it mopping the floor with the 8002 as it's on sale and I can just listen to music directly on the 4800h which would make life a lot easier than switching to the Marantz for music. Not to mention that movies, shows, and games would all sound better on the 4800h. Granted, I can always listen to music on the 8002 while it's working.

Now, for existing 4800h owners, the 4800h sounds great in music. Way better than the RZ50 and enjoyable - it's also perfect for background music while the Marantz was a bit too engaging for that - you had to pick your genre with it. I have been enjoying the 4800h a lot in music but once I hear the 8002 that's when it falls apart. Not in everything, let's be honest... but play Kitaro's Light of the Spirit and Cosmic Love from Live In America and the 8002 - well, it should be illegal or you should need a license to operate it like James Bond - I'll have a Martini, Marantzed, not Denoned.

I believe he compared the 4800's amp to the SR8002's, same preamp/dac.

If I'm using the 4800h and powering it with the 8002, then isn't the 4800h just being used as a preamp/dac? What DAC does the Denon 4800h use? Is the DAC responsible for musical dynamics?

 

[peng]

I expected the same but I'm finding out that these things are as different as Minivans vs SUV vs sports cars. It reminds me of the story of an avid Marantz fan who owned 15 Marantz vintage receivers then heard a Sansui and traded in their top-of-the-line 2275 for a 9090 stating it's clearly better and that's obvious in seconds. And they knew Marantz sound as well as Saul Marantz.

I now own a 4800h so I have a vested interest in it mopping the floor with the 8002 as it's on sale and I can just listen to music directly on the 4800h which would make life a lot easier than switching to the Marantz for music. Not to mention that movies, shows, and games would all sound better on the 4800h. Granted, I can always listen to music on the 8002 while it's working.

Now, for existing 4800h owners, the 4800h sounds great in music. Way better than the RZ50 and enjoyable - it's also perfect for background music while the Marantz was a bit too engaging for that - you had to pick your genre with it. I have been enjoying the 4800h a lot in music but once I hear the 8002 that's when it falls apart. Not in everything, let's be honest... but play Kitaro's Light of the Spirit and Cosmic Love from Live In America and the 8002 - well, it should be illegal or you should need a license to operate it like James Bond - I'll have a Martini, Marantzed, not Denoned.


If I'm using the 4800h and powering it with the 8002, then isn't the 4800h just being used as a preamp/dac? What DAC does the Denon 4800h use? Is the DAC responsible for musical dynamics?

Yes, that's why I don"t think the difference could be so dramatic, but again, it's what you heard. Anyway, it looks like you now have a great combination, so just sit back and enjoy.

My own Denons never sounded that different to any of my Marantz, not even when compared to my Marantz stereo seprates, and that's fine for me.