Denon AVR-X3800H Review

[peng]

Taking a hard look at the product page, I only just realized it's a USB connection from the UMIK-1 (presumably to a PC and most likely a laptop).

This is good info as I may just forgo buying the app and go straight to the UMIK-1/Dirac expense. Do most folks buy the mic direct from the miniDSP site or is it possible to get it cheaper somewhere else?

It is much cheaper to buy from miniDSP, but if you are in the US, by the time you add shipping cost, import duty and taxes, it may cost about more or less the same as buying from a vendor in the US, such as Amazon.

 

[OverTheAir]

Taking a hard look at the product page, I only just realized it's a USB connection from the UMIK-1 (presumably to a PC and most likely a laptop).

This is good info as I may just forgo buying the app and go straight to the UMIK-1/Dirac expense. Do most folks buy the mic direct from the miniDSP site or is it possible to get it cheaper somewhere else?

As an alternative to Amazon, you can also buy at Deer Creek Audio, who are an official MiniDSP dealer. I purchased a miniDSP 2x4HD from them last year and they had very fast delivery.

 

[dlaloum]

Would an older USB microphone from my Rockband/Guitar Hero days work as well as the UMIK-1?

Yes - but you need it to be calibrated....

The key thing with the UMIK1 is that it has been individually measured and a calibration file is provided.

The puck is "batch" calibrated - so the calibration built into the AVR, is based on the average performance of that mic design... in 95 + % of cases that will be fine.... but if you have an outlier, it may be out - if it is an outlier, most of them are "out" in the high frequency range -and the most important part of the range is the mid to low frequencies.... hence they are a perfect tool for 99% or more of setups

 

[EWL5]

So I paid for the app and transferred the calibration over to the receiver and it really did make a difference! Denon should frankly be embarrased by the out-of-the-box Audyssey calibration w/o the app since I've appeared to have gotten back the prior glory of the system when it was on Pioneer/MCACC.

Now I have to weigh the benefit of paying a couple hundred for Dirac Live and a UMIK-1! What immediate benefit do I get w/this combo compared to the app?

 

[susanstone]

So I paid for the app and transferred the calibration over to the receiver and it really did make a difference! Denon should frankly be embarrased by the out-of-the-box Audyssey calibration w/o the app since I've appeared to have gotten back the prior glory of the system when it was on Pioneer/MCACC.

Now I have to weigh the benefit of paying a couple hundred for Dirac Live and a UMIK-1! What immediate benefit do I get w/this combo compared to the app?

Well, each setup is different. In my opinion, Audyssey is doing a decent job in general. How much more if any Dirac Live can give you really depends on your setup (speak, amp, room condition, etc.). I am in the same boat. Eventually I think I am going to pull the trigger for Dirac because that is the human nature. The reason I bought x3800h is it supports both and I hope it can do better with Dirac, right?

 

[morpheusX]

I assume this tool gives you full control of the Audyssey calibration?
- https://www.avsforum.com/threads/an...r-tweaking-audyssey-multeq-app-files.3006886/

 

[ExPerfectionist]

On my Marantz, I use the Audyssey app and limit the L/R frequency correction to 500Hz (might be 1kHz), I think in the 1-3kHz range for Center cap (to help with sound issues of it sitting on a TV stand). I think a lot of people get the app to be able to limit the correction to just the bass range.

If you're just EQing the bass and not full frequency range, Audyssey seems more than adequate.

 

[EWL5]

I assume this tool gives you full control of the Audyssey calibration?
- https://www.avsforum.com/threads/an...r-tweaking-audyssey-multeq-app-files.3006886/

That's appears to be a free tool made by a power user for power users. I prefer the paid Audyssey app where I'm less likely to brick/damage my AVR (syntax is a b1tch).

 

[EWL5]

This was one of the reviews of the paid Audyssey app:

"Many have written Denon and Marantz support about an issue with speaker timing. The AVRs have the speed of sound coded as 300 m/s instead of the true speed. Of 343 m/s. To fix this, you have to manually multiply all speaker distances by 0.875. When I did that, WOW - everything snapped in to place and objects moving around the room sounded so much better.

Audyssey themselves understand this issue and have addressed it in their -X desktop software ($199 per AVR license).

Two things Sound United can do that so far refuse. One - update this app to automatically adjust the speaker distances so the processor will get the timing right. This would seem to be the quickest and easiest and be done first. Second is update the firmware in the AVRs with the correct speed of sound number. This isn’t rocket science and Sound United’s deafness on this issue is baffling."

Can anyone speak to this and if I need to manually correct speaker distances because of this?

 

[EWL5]

A couple of oddities after the paid app calibration that I would like to point out:
1) My C/L/R Martin Logan SLM X3 was assigned a 250Hz crossover. Isn't this a bit high and is this an indication of an inefficient speaker?
2) Surrounds and Top Front speakers are in ceiling speakers and were assigned 60Hz crossover. I don't know which make/model these speakers are but this sounds really low, no?
3) Is Dynamic EQ something I want on?

 

[ExPerfectionist]

When I use the app I have been just resetting the speaker detected distances to the actual measured distances. I'm moving houses and getting a subwoofer soon, and the timing/phase for the sub will be more important for that, so I'm interested as well.

 

[susanstone]

This was one of the reviews of the paid Audyssey app:

"Many have written Denon and Marantz support about an issue with speaker timing. The AVRs have the speed of sound coded as 300 m/s instead of the true speed. Of 343 m/s. To fix this, you have to manually multiply all speaker distances by 0.875. When I did that, WOW - everything snapped in to place and objects moving around the room sounded so much better.

Audyssey themselves understand this issue and have addressed it in their -X desktop software ($199 per AVR license).

Two things Sound United can do that so far refuse. One - update this app to automatically adjust the speaker distances so the processor will get the timing right. This would seem to be the quickest and easiest and be done first. Second is update the firmware in the AVRs with the correct speed of sound number. This isn’t rocket science and Sound United’s deafness on this issue is baffling."

Can anyone speak to this and if I need to manually correct speaker distances because of this?

If this is true, I don't think adjust speaker distance would be enough. It needs to be fixed on the Audyssey or Denon side. It isn't rocket science and is probably not as easy as to just update the number either.

Isn't this issue fixed in 2022+ Denon and Maranz AVRs? So it should not apply to x3800h.

 

[Karls_speaker_works]

If this is true, I don't think adjust speaker distance would be enough. It needs to be fixed on the Audyssey or Denon side. It isn't rocket science and is probably not as easy as to just update the number either.

Isn't this issue fixed in 2022+ Denon and Maranz AVRs? So it should not apply to x3800h.

Yes, the issue is fixed in the X3800H and I have confirmed the distances are accurate.

Can anyone speak to this and if I need to manually correct speaker distances because of this?

So no, you do not need to correct distances on your X3800H.

 

[phn]

Thought to create an account and share my thoughts here as this review helped to select my next AVR: Denon AVC-3800H.

My first post, a long one to share my experience and to thank for the excellent original review. I am not native in English, please be kind

As many of us, I was not a little concerned as how the AKM plant fire would affect Denon going forward. As it happened, a year from the fire, my trusted Denon AVC10-SE after 20 years of great service blacked out. We had moved to a smaller house since then, I did not need quite the power so I set to buy a somewhat smaller receiver, with X3700H in my sights as the first candidate to try out.

However, as it was at the time, there was a long queue for any equipment, and with no AVR at all, I consented to buying a X2700H instead as it was instantly available. Perhaps a tad on a smaller side, but it had great reviews, and maybe it would be “good enough”. It was.

Now, with prices coming down again, I wanted to upgrade a bit. Time to look at the new X3800H as it had great specs, with selective pre-outs per channel especially. But what about the new (not as good) components? ASR forum to rescue. Thank you @amirm for the detailed test. The good the bad the ugly all there.

To start with the good, first, while the DAC chipset was a disappointment, I mainly use my AVR for home cinema. The fact X3800H now has the same chipset as the previous flagship model was great news. Yes, I read the whole thread before buying, I am crazy like that.

When we’re not watching movies or series, we listen to vinyl. Pop and rock, mostly, not that serious about it so I don’t want a separate 2ch system for that. I do appreciate a great sound as everyone does so it was good to see the analogue part was still OK. Check.

Then, yes, we have some CDs still. I recently bought a Denon DCD-600NE for them, as it was a bit of a pain to play them with a Bluray player. And the AVR DACs are not that special in best of cases, I assume. DCD-600NE has a solid Sony mechanism inside, and while I am not certain how the PCM5142 the CD player has actually differs from PCM5102 in the AVR I now have the option to try both. Anyway, I plan to purchase a separate DAC for my CD use so this will become a moot point once I upgrade this bit of the stack. Check.

Then, the preamp mode. It is likely now with kids out of house we might move our home cinema to our living room, from a separate smaller room. My main reason to opt for X3800H was a chance to buy a separate 2ch amplifier for my main speakers. I don’t listen that loudly, typical movie volume is -30 to -25, with music -35 to -30, perhaps.

I have a 5.1 ProAc / SVS setup, with Response 1CSs in front and Tablettes as surround speakers. Response Ones are not the most demanding, but not most easy speakers to drive, so a dedicated amp for them makes a lot of sense, and I am quite looking forward to that upgrade. Check.

Finally, Audissey XT32. I was curious to find out just how much better that is, compared to XT from X2700H. I was happy enough with results I got from XT. This was a pleasant surprise, there was a clear improvement on clarity of sounds, lower end especially. Happy happy happy, so check!

(I do have the $20 Audyssey app I purchased for X2700H, it is not receiver bound, so works with my new AVR as well. I highly recommend it for ease of use. I am considering the MultEQ PC software too, but not right now. Out of curiosity, mostly.)

So with all this, I voted “Great”, as X3800H for me provides great value for the reduced price of EUR 1299. I got a great refund for X2700H from my local dealer, too. YMMV as always, but for me, this AVR drives far towards the needs that I have. At least as how I've intrepreted everything, as above.

I am fully behind @amirm conclusion btw, and appreciate he keeps the vendors honest. For me, the bad let alone the ugly just happened to be not that relevant so no mention here. I appreciate the effort to have all the data out there, it played a key role when selecting this amp. Edit and anything I've missed I am sure I am corrected on those parts

 

[phn]

For me, the bad let alone the ugly just happened to be not that relevant so no mention here. I appreciate the effort to have all the data out there, it played a key role when selecting this amp. Edit and anything I've missed I am sure I am corrected on those parts

Caveat here of course being that I bypass DAC all together both for Vinyl obviously but for CD audio as well. Price paid not having the Audyssey room treatment curves in effect.

Room->Speakers->Electronics, they say. I have invested in acoustic treatment worth the price of the X3800h at least, with bass traps on all corners, acoustic panels and heavy side curtains. That helps. Otherwise any and all audible defect resulting from the DAC would play a more central role.

 

[soerenssen]

If I use a 3-channel NCx500 amp for LCR, the internal amps only for the surrounds and I will use the AVR for HT only, does it make any sense to go for an x4800h for double the price?
I have the option to order the amp with XLR only inputs or XLR+RCA. Which one is better: using RCA-RCA between the AVR and the amp, or rather using RCA-XLR? I can connect 2 of the RCA pre-outs to a pre-amp, alternatively, but for the center it will be a direct connection from the Denon to the power amp.

 

[peng]

Thought to create an account and share my thoughts here as this review helped to select my next AVR: Denon AVC-3800H.

My first post, a long one to share my experience and to thank for the excellent original review. I am not native in English, please be kind

Welcome to ASR!

Now, with prices coming down again, I wanted to upgrade a bit. Time to look at the new X3800H as it had great specs, with selective pre-outs per channel especially. But what about the new (not as good) components? ASR forum to rescue. Thank you @amirm for the detailed test. The good the bad the ugly all there.

To start with the good, first, while the DAC chipset was a disappointment, I mainly use my AVR for home cinema. The fact X3800H now has the same chipset as the previous flagship model was great news. Yes, I read the whole thread before buying, I am crazy like that.

That is only true to some extent, for the same model year AVRs, Denon has been using the same DAC, and volume control ICs for their 2000 through 6000 series AVRs, but they do use a better DAC IC for the flagship model, and that has not changed. So you can expect the AVR-X3800H to have the same DAC and volume control chips as the X4800H, but they are not going to get the same DAC chip as the flagship AVR-A1H. Only the Marantz A10, that is a AV preamp/processor, get the same DAC IC.

When we’re not watching movies or series, we listen to vinyl. Pop and rock, mostly, not that serious about it so I don’t want a separate 2ch system for that. I do appreciate a great sound as everyone does so it was good to see the analogue part was still OK. Check.

Then, yes, we have some CDs still. I recently bought a Denon DCD-600NE for them, as it was a bit of a pain to play them with a Bluray player. And the AVR DACs are not that special in best of cases, I assume. DCD-600NE has a solid Sony mechanism inside, and while I am not certain how the PCM5142 the CD player has actually differs from PCM5102 in the AVR I now have the option to try both. Anyway, I plan to purchase a separate DAC for my CD use so this will become a moot point once I upgrade this bit of the stack. Check.

It is easy to compare the 5142 and 5102's specs and I just did. The THD+N, and DR specs appear to be almost identical, I don't think one is "better", just different for different applications. CD players and integrated amps typically don't use better chips than their AVR cousins, except the really expensive, so called high end ones.

Then, the preamp mode. It is likely now with kids out of house we might move our home cinema to our living room, from a separate smaller room. My main reason to opt for X3800H was a chance to buy a separate 2ch amplifier for my main speakers. I don’t listen that loudly, typical movie volume is -30 to -25, with music -35 to -30, perhaps.

I have a 5.1 ProAc / SVS setup, with Response 1CSs in front and Tablettes as surround speakers. Response Ones are not the most demanding, but not most easy speakers to drive, so a dedicated amp for them makes a lot of sense, and I am quite looking forward to that upgrade. Check.

If your typical volume is -25 or below, I highly doubt you will benefit from external power amps, though it is always good to have much more power than you think you need.

Finally, Audissey XT32. I was curious to find out just how much better that is, compared to XT from X2700H. I was happy enough with results I got from XT. This was a pleasant surprise, there was a clear improvement on clarity of sounds, lower end especially. Happy happy happy, so check!

(I do have the $20 Audyssey app I purchased for X2700H, it is not receiver bound, so works with my new AVR as well. I highly recommend it for ease of use. I am considering the MultEQ PC software too, but not right now. Out of curiosity, mostly.)

So with all this, I voted “Great”, as X3800H for me provides great value for the reduced price of EUR 1299. I got a great refund for X2700H from my local dealer, too. YMMV as always, but for me, this AVR drives far towards the needs that I have. At least as how I've intrepreted everything, as above.

I am fully behind @amirm conclusion btw, and appreciate he keeps the vendors honest. For me, the bad let alone the ugly just happened to be not that relevant so no mention here. I appreciate the effort to have all the data out there, it played a key role when selecting this amp. Edit and anything I've missed I am sure I am corrected on those parts

Sounds like you are happy with your purchase, and you must feel good about your local dealer who gave you a great refund for the used x2700h.

 

[peng]

If I use a 3-channel NCx500 amp for LCR, the internal amps only for the surrounds and I will use the AVR for HT only, does it make any sense to go for an x4800h for double the price?
I have the option to order the amp with XLR only inputs or XLR+RCA. Which one is better: using RCA-RCA between the AVR and the amp, or rather using RCA-XLR? I can connect 2 of the RCA pre-outs to a pre-amp, alternatively, but for the center it will be a direct connection from the Denon to the power amp.

I think this question has been asked and answered a few times before, and there was, expectedly no consensus as people have different perspectives and opinions. To me, if the X3800H has all the features you need, then may as well save the money if it amounts to more than, say, $500. For a smaller difference, I would probably go with the X4800H regardless because I like a couple of the features that are not important, but nice to have.

On the question of RCA-XLR, if you read Hypex recommendations, you will feel fine with RCA-XLR interconnects as long as you get the ones connected per Hypex. I have tried to low cost Monoprice ones, and they worked great too. If you have reasons to go with amps that provide both RCA and XLR inputs then it may be the way to go for you, and it is easy to find out from the manufacturer about how they wired the RCAs, just to make sure they didn't do anything funny.

 

[soerenssen]

I think this question has been asked and answered a few times before, and there was, expectedly no consensus as people have different perspectives and opinions. To me, if the X3800H has all the features you need, then may as well save the money if it amounts to more than, say, $500. For a smaller difference, I would probably go with the X4800H regardless because I like a couple of the features that are not important, but nice to have.

On the question of RCA-XLR, if you read Hypex recommendations, you will feel fine with RCA-XLR interconnects as long as you get the ones connected per Hypex. I have tried to low cost Monoprice ones, and they worked great too. If you have reasons to go with amps that provide both RCA and XLR inputs then it may be the way to go for you, and it is easy to find out from the manufacturer about how they wired the RCAs, just to make sure they didn't do anything funny.

Thank you @peng! Currently it's 850-900 vs 1600 Euro in the EU.

 

[peng]

Thank you @peng! Currently it's 850-900 vs 1600 Euro in the EU.

Wow, that's good price, vs USA's $1699 and $2499 based on Crutchfield.

Denon AVR-X4800H

9.4-channel home theater receiver with Dolby Atmos®, Bluetooth®, Apple AirPlay® 2, and Amazon Alexa compatibility

www.crutchfield.com

So I guess in the EU, the 3800 is the much better deal. I think the inflated price difference between the two has a lot to do with the much higher labor rate in Japan, vs in Vietnam. Labor skill used to be a huge factor but nowadays manufacturing is so automated, and they have to do it to the same or similar international QS/AS standards such as the common ISO 9000 family of standards.