Denon AVR-X3800H Review

[tjcinnamon]

For those of you running multiple subwoofers on either 3800, 4800 or A1H, do you feel like a MiniDSP or similar is necessary, or does Audyssey/Dirac work well for multi-subwoofer setups (I know DLBC is expected further down the road for Dirac which would definitely make a MiniDSP obsolete)?

For reference I will be running a 7.2.4 setup with the following speakers/hardware:

Front speakers: Dali Epicon 6
Center speaker: Dali Epicon Vokal
Surround speakers: 4 x Dali Rubicon LCR
Atmos speakers: 4 x Dali Phantom K-80
Subwoofers: 2 x B&W DB1 (hopefully four down the line)
Receiver: Denon X3800H
Power amplifier: Classe Audio CA-5200 (for the Front and Center speakers)

MiniDSP all the way. If you’re willing to invest some time into REW you can get the most “controlled” result. Otherwise, youre beholden to the black box.

I’ve had Dirac and Audyssey. Summing to a single sub via a miniDSP has always yielded the best result. With MQX I completely bypass any EQ or time alignment to the subs.

Not sure how well the multi-sub on Dirac with Bass Control or Audyssey MQX works. But the results on a miniDSP and REW are very reproducible

 

[GalZohar]

For two subs, especially if are of the same model and more or less equidistance, in my opinion the minidsp is not necessary, could potentially make things worse. I tried it, had spent hours on trial and error trying to get the best FR curve. Tried it in two rooms, on the FL/FR with 1 and 2 subs, there are some minor/negligible improvements on paper but all based on REW measurements with mic in the main position only. To me, nothing I experienced that could justify the additional interconnects, another heater (though a tiny one), and potentially limited by the mini's max 2V RCA output (according to specs). Almost sold me for cheap but potential buyer is in the US, didn't seem like going through the trouble shipping overseas in the end, so now I am keeping it for use as an active crossover for one of my two channel system that I am using Dirac two channel version.

No doubt the mindsp is a useful device but it is overrated, for use with multichannel system that already has Audyssey or Dirac Live, that's just my opinion and I know users will never be convinced because they like what they heard with the mini (to me, that's Placebo/bias at work, subjective at best...) Those who use mso with it may be able to show some objective results though, my comments are based on using it with REW filters, or just manual tweaks only.

If you have a proper room EQ system like XT32, the only point of a miniDPS is to run something like MSO for individual filters for each subwoofer. If you just use REW filters you have practically nothing to gain from it over just letting XT32 handle your sub(s).

 

[peng]

If you have a proper room EQ system like XT32, the only point of a miniDPS is to run something like MSO for individual filters for each subwoofer. If you just use REW filters you have practically nothing to gain from it over just letting XT32 handle your sub(s).

Agreed, but Placebo works well on most people, I guess...

 

[dlaloum]

Agreed, but Placebo works well on most people, I guess...

So does Nocebo

 

[peng]

So does Nocebo

Of course, but one is provable objectively, the other is not.

 

[ChiliJohn]

Hi,

I am faced with the choice between the X1700 and the X3800.

Can't really decide which one to get.

I have both here and made a direct comparison. Currently I "only" use a 5.0 system with 2 Nubert floorstanding speakers, a Nubert center and 2 rear speakers.

I don't currently use a subwoofer.

Atmos and so on are also not planned for the time being.

After measuring the two devices, I couldn't see any real difference.

That speaks for the X1700. Now I just have to consider whether the X1700 is still good enough if I add a subwoofer. The X3800 has the better Audyssey.

Otherwise I run a PS5, XSX, BlURay player on the receiver. But there is no difference between the two devices.

So it's only about the better Audyssey... and possibly 5.1.4 instead of "only" 5.1.2.

It's really heavy, head says X1700...

The X1700H DAB is priced at EUR 589, the X3800 at EUR 1299.

 

[peng]

It's really heavy, head says X1700...

The X1700H DAB is priced at EUR 589, the X3800 at EUR 1299.

In this case, may be you should listen to your head, that probably want to say Eur710 is a lot to pay for features that you don't use and have no plan to use in the next several years. Feature proofing for something that won't be used in even 3 years is not of much value, for the fast changing AVR world.

 

[ChiliJohn]

Hi Peng,

Thanks for your answer. That's going in the direction I'm thinking.

I don't know when and if I would even go to 5.1.4. The room is relatively good but not an optimized home cinema room.

If so, I would add a subwoofer in the near future. At the moment, however, I am quite satisfied with the bass with only two floor-standing speakers.

How big is the difference between the Audyssey and the XT32 really?

So if the Audyssey result from the X1700 is good, does it "only" get better with the XT32?
Or is the XT32 so much better that it can turn a "bad" Audyssey result into a very good one. If a subwoofer should be added.

A MiniDSP might also be possible. Is cheaper than the extra charge for the X3800.

 

[dlaloum]

Hi Peng,

Thanks for your answer. That's going in the direction I'm thinking.

I don't know when and if I would even go to 5.1.4. The room is relatively good but not an optimized home cinema room.

If so, I would add a subwoofer in the near future. At the moment, however, I am quite satisfied with the bass with only two floor-standing speakers.

How big is the difference between the Audyssey and the XT32 really?

So if the Audyssey result from the X1700 is good, does it "only" get better with the XT32?
Or is the XT32 so much better that it can turn a "bad" Audyssey result into a very good one. If a subwoofer should be added.

A MiniDSP might also be possible. Is cheaper than the extra charge for the X3800.

The answer is "it depends" - XT32 can do more fine grained correction - but if your room / setup doesn't need the additional adjustment, it will not improve things.

The better your base setup the less the difference between XT and XT32.

 

[peng]

Hi Peng,

Thanks for your answer. That's going in the direction I'm thinking.

I don't know when and if I would even go to 5.1.4. The room is relatively good but not an optimized home cinema room.

If so, I would add a subwoofer in the near future. At the moment, however, I am quite satisfied with the bass with only two floor-standing speakers.

How big is the difference between the Audyssey and the XT32 really?

So if the Audyssey result from the X1700 is good, does it "only" get better with the XT32?
Or is the XT32 so much better that it can turn a "bad" Audyssey result into a very good one. If a subwoofer should be added.

A MiniDSP might also be possible. Is cheaper than the extra charge for the X3800.

If the bass sounds clear and crisp to you now, you don't need to spend money on a minidsp. The minidsp is good if you need it, but imo this thing is so overrated and seems so overused, probably due to the power or hearsay and groupthink evidenced on the internet (forum posts). I would suggest you buy the $20 app instead so you can customize certain things. That gives you the option to try disabling MRC and see if you like it better. It also will give you a rough idea of how well your speaker's in-room response is, from the predicted curves that it will show you. The actual response from you seat will not be exactly the same, but it does give you a rough idea.

Audyssey Midrange Compensation – On or Off? – Denon and Marantz Receivers

Should you turn Midrange Compensation on or off? How do you know if your speakers need it? Let’s find out!

simplehomecinema.com

 

[HarmonicTHD]

For for the x1700 for the reasons given, I’d say and save the money for a later (maybe two or three years) speaker upgrade.

 

[rana_kirti]

Is it possible for denon to revise the avr with an updated dac so that the 3800 can be in recommended category?

 

[peng]

Is it possible for denon to revise the avr with an updated dac so that the 3800 can be in recommended category?

I would think that is possible, and in fact they had substituted DAC chips before on the same models (such as around 2015/2016 iirc) without advertising.

 

[voodooless]

Is it possible for denon to revise the avr with an updated dac so that the 3800 can be in recommended category?

It’s probably easier to just bribe @amirm

 

[ban25]

Hi,

I am faced with the choice between the X1700 and the X3800.

Can't really decide which one to get.

I have both here and made a direct comparison. Currently I "only" use a 5.0 system with 2 Nubert floorstanding speakers, a Nubert center and 2 rear speakers.

I don't currently use a subwoofer.

Atmos and so on are also not planned for the time being.

After measuring the two devices, I couldn't see any real difference.

That speaks for the X1700. Now I just have to consider whether the X1700 is still good enough if I add a subwoofer. The X3800 has the better Audyssey.

Otherwise I run a PS5, XSX, BlURay player on the receiver. But there is no difference between the two devices.

So it's only about the better Audyssey... and possibly 5.1.4 instead of "only" 5.1.2.

It's really heavy, head says X1700...

The X1700H DAB is priced at EUR 589, the X3800 at EUR 1299.

Without doubt, you should get the X3800H. The X3800H has full 40 Gbps HDMI 2.1 ports to support 4K120 for your PS5 and XSX (and Dolby Vision + Atmos for your XSX). The X1700H is limited to a single HDMI 2.1 input, so you will have to decide which console you wish to use for full quality output and which to relegate to 4K60. Also, you really need to add a subwoofer.

 

[muziker]

If there are no issues with room acoustics and output power, I think X2800H is perfect compromise.

 

[Phidel]

Why doesn't the 3800H support 1440p resolution? I want this AVR for its 2 outputs, one for the 4k@120hz TV and the other for the 1440p@144Hz monitor but I can only use the TV...

 

[Trell]

Why doesn't the 3800H support 1440p resolution? I want this AVR for its 2 outputs, one for the 4k@120hz TV and the other for the 1440p@144Hz monitor but I can only use the TV...

AVRs generally only pass standard TV resolutions. 1440p support is something that gamers have wanted for many years.

 

[Phidel]

Why if connect my PC to the AVR and the AVR to the TV via HDMI-CEC, the AVR does not close when I turn off the TV but it turn on when I turn on the TV? I have CEC setting on in the TV and the AVR, set the input to 8K Enhanced on AVR (under setup and video), 2.1 certified cables, etc etc. but I get always the same result. If I connect the PC to the TV and the TV to the AVR I have no problems all runs well but I need the first configuration because I want to use the 2 outs of the AVR. Any help?

 

[tesseractASR]

Read everything I could on the latest AVRs, AVCs and AVPs. Cosidered them all, Onkyo/Integra/Pioneer, NAD, Anthem, etc. Settled on Denon.

Was undecided on which way to go, 3800 or 4800. The 3800s were on sale not too long ago, so I grabbed one to try from Crutchfield for $1500. That model sold out the next day and mine arrived that day.

Swapped out the only other AVR I've ever owned, the Sherwood Newcastle R-972, then proceeded with setup. Got the Audyssey app, ran the DRC using 3 captures at the same mic location, as there is only one listening position. XO is 80Hz. Disabled the midrange bump, enabled "Dynamic EQ", selected "Reference" on the AVC. Running 2.1 in an apartment at low to medium volume.

This thing sounds really good! I'd like to have the extras offered by the 4800 but don't see a good reason to drop another $1k. Looking at an upcoming Martin Logan 5.0 purchase, the money saved will step me from the EM to the bigger X. I am enjoying this so much that I am hesitant to do anything further, fully-satisfied with stereo reproduction.

I imagine that someday I'll dig into Dirac (have that on my 1st gen XMC-1 and appreciated it) and maybe even explore MultEQ X.

I am still not 100% on keeping it or not, but so far, so good. I do wonder why these went on sale for a few days.