Denon AVR-X3800H Review

[voodooless]

Why do people keep repeating something that isn't true?

Amir did not recommend the 3800 and he gave his reason clearly. He never told people not to buy it because of "SINAD". There is a big diifference between not recommended and don't buy it.

Most of the analysis in the video is actually fine. But they indeed totally missed the message that Amir was putting out: going down 15 dB in objective performance in two generations should not be rewarded with a recommendation, regardless of audibility.

Besides, why should you care what Amir thinks about it? All the data is there for everyone to see! Make up your own mind!

 

[peng]

Most of the analysis in the video is actually fine. But they indeed totally missed the message that Amir was putting out: going down 15 dB in objective performance in two generations should not be rewarded with a recommendation, regardless of audibility.

Besides, why should you care what Amir thinks about it? All the data is there for everyone to see! Make up your own mind!

I did not mean to pick on those Youtubers based on just that one video.

 

[Vacceo]

I´m surprised a complete layman like me does get Amir´s (or any other objective approach) point but alleged "enthusiasts" refuse to read a bit further on the reasons Amir have publicly stated several times. Their coments are a complete non-sequitur in logical terms. Let´s see:

-AVR´s can be better engineered. Not because I, or Amir tells so; but because Denon itself produced better avr´s in the previous generations.
-Throwing money at the problem is a stupid argument: this AVR costs more than the previous generation for a worse-engineered product.
-You cannot listen to it. Perhaps you or I cannot, but you don´t know in all situations, all rooms, all speakers, all listeners. Engineering is about guaranteed operation and it can be done again because it was done in the past. With that logic, why moving away from steam locomotives, they move too, right?
-When did Amir say "do not buy"? He stated that he wouldn´t recommend it. That is his opinion based on the obtained data. In your opinion with the same data, it might be the right product for you.
-Providing data about this product is an act of irresponsability. How so?

 

[jbonn5000]

Someone says that the fan noise is loud, I'm not sure how many.
Usually an external fan solves the problem. I think it is crazy in a (relatively) new product have such a solution, but bettere an external fan than a not so good dac

Not to turn this into an Anthem thread, but I'm curious about how loud this fan noise is for it to be unacceptable. Are the complaints coming from people who have dedicated (and super quiet) home theaters? Can you hear the fan interfering with the signal? Has anyone provided SPL readings? I ask because Anthem is at the top of the list for me after this current thread.

 

[mctron]

Not to turn this into an Anthem thread, but I'm curious about how loud this fan noise is for it to be unacceptable. Are the complaints coming from people who have dedicated (and super quiet) home theaters? Can you hear the fan interfering with the signal? Has anyone provided SPL readings? I ask because Anthem is at the top of the list for me after this current thread.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/anthem-mrx-1140-fan-noise.34258/ and other posts on AVS forums and the like https://www.avsforum.com/threads/ow...1140-receivers.3180183/page-142#post-60894882

They're cheap small computer fans that probably run at full RPM which are very annoying. Obviously if you have a dedicated closet or are willing to swap the fans out or live next to a construction site it's fine otherwise I would think it's an issue

 

[Trell]

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/anthem-mrx-1140-fan-noise.34258/ and other posts on AVS forums and the like https://www.avsforum.com/threads/ow...1140-receivers.3180183/page-142#post-60894882

They're cheap small computer fans that probably run at full RPM which are very annoying. Obviously if you have a dedicated closet or are willing to swap the fans out or live next to a construction site it's fine otherwise I would think it's an issue

Oh my! A cheap 40 mm fan would for sure annoy me to no end with its sound, say, during quiet listening in the evenings.

 

[Chromatischism]

In my current system, my gear is behind me, so fans are a no go.

Also, Denon picked a bad time in history (when measurements and awareness of them are peaking) to downshift on one of the things that made them successful over the last few years. Even if most people find the difference to not be audible, it still looks bad. And perception is everything.

 

[ArturoKiwi]

Sadly the perfect AVR doesn't exist and I hope that Amirm will measure Anthem x40 series so we could talk about real differences.
Fan noise is unacceptable, but could be "corrected" easily. Said that, I think it is right to choose the avr knowing the "numbers" of the gear, but also the features that you desire and the price you could afford.
"you" stay for a generic user

 

[peng]

Not to turn this into an Anthem thread, but I'm curious about how loud this fan noise is for it to be unacceptable. Are the complaints coming from people who have dedicated (and super quiet) home theaters? Can you hear the fan interfering with the signal? Has anyone provided SPL readings? I ask because Anthem is at the top of the list for me after this current thread.

My room is not particularly quiet but I could hear the fan during quiet scenes/passages from 11 ft (my mlp). So I use a couple of external fans set to the lowest speed to suppress the build in fan, problem solved!

 

[Martin]

Why is Anthem even being mentioned in these threads? They cost more than double what AVRs from Denon, Marantz, Onkyo, Pioneer and Integra cost. I don't think too many people cross shop Anthem (or Arcam) with these Sound United and Premium Audio brands. Plus they don't have Dirac.

Martin

 

[ArturoKiwi]

Why is Anthem even being mentioned in these threads? They cost more than double what AVRs from Denon, Marantz, Onkyo, Pioneer and Integra cost. I don't think too many people cross shop Anthem (or Arcam) with these Sound United and Premium Audio brands. Plus they don't have Dirac.

Martin

Because Tmukh asked if X4800H would have a better sinad than X3800H. So I suggest to look at Anthem.
They don't have Dirac, but Arc Genesis is the equivalent of DL + DLBC. So if you spend 1700$ for a X3800H and add 350+650 (?? Not sure), You'll spend the same as a mrx740 without waiting 1 year to have the bass control.
My personal 0.2 cent opinon, obviously

 

[voodooless]

Because Tmukh asked if X4800H would have a better sinad than X3800H. So I suggest to look at Anthem.
They don't have Dirac, but Arc Genesis is the equivalent of DL + DLBC. So if you spend 1700$ for a X3800H and add 350+650 (?? Not sure), You'll spend the same as a mrx740 without waiting 1 year to have the bass control.

In the US, that might make sense. It's only about a $ 200 difference. In Europe however the MRX470 is almost € 4k, and the 8K version is slightly above € 4k. That's almost double what X3800H + DL + DLBC would cost

 

[ArturoKiwi]

In the US, that might make sense. It's only about a $ 200 difference. In Europe however the MRX470 is almost € 4k, and the 8K version is slightly above € 4k. That's almost double what X3800H + DL + DLBC would cost

I know very well, I live in Italy

 

[voodooless]

I know very well, I live in Italy

... There goes your argument out of the window then

 

[ArturoKiwi]

... There goes your argument out of the window then

I wrote it because I thought that the most part of the "user" is un the USA or Canada.
I know that there a major difference for many, but I could find mrx740 4k at 3000€, so not so different from the price in $.
With Denon and more expensive Marantz that have a not so good dac, Onkyo, Pioneer and I think Integra that has amp power problems... It seems it is a not so good moment for buying a new avr.

 

[ArturoKiwi]

Ah, I forgot to mention that the used market is leavening

 

[ItSoundsNatural01]

I´m surprised a complete layman like me does get Amir´s (or any other objective approach) point but alleged "enthusiasts" refuse to read a bit further on the reasons Amir have publicly stated several times. Their coments are a complete non-sequitur in logical terms. Let´s see:

-AVR´s can be better engineered. Not because I, or Amir tells so; but because Denon itself produced better avr´s in the previous generations.
-Throwing money at the problem is a stupid argument: this AVR costs more than the previous generation for a worse-engineered product.
-You cannot listen to it. Perhaps you or I cannot, but you don´t know in all situations, all rooms, all speakers, all listeners. Engineering is about guaranteed operation and it can be done again because it was done in the past. With that logic, why moving away from steam locomotives, they move too, right?
-When did Amir say "do not buy"? He stated that he wouldn´t recommend it. That is his opinion based on the obtained data. In your opinion with the same data, it might be the right product for you.
-Providing data about this product is an act of irresponsability. How so?

Totally Agree, this is a hilarious situation I am seeing, they all shout at ASR and the members who are vocal from this forum, but none of them point a single finger at Denon for making a shit subpar product.

@amirm, For the sake of the greater good, could you please make a video(s) on the subject of AVR measurements?
- How to compare vendor-published spec sheet (THD+N) vs SINAD and the technical aspects from the review sheet
- Why SINAD? , at which point does the SINAD score hinder audio products/AVR?
- What are we compromising by selecting a product with a lower SINAD score?
- For buyers who are making purchasing decisions based on ASR reviews, e.g AVR segment, what to consider?

Please add any further points as you see fit, those are a few points that I thought could bring some value.

 

[Vacceo]

Well, I'd not calle It shit. The AVR is functional and the features work as intended. It is simply a shame that the base performance has gotten worse. This is particularly sad considering that Denon used to build some of the best performing AVR's

 

[Benedium]

Well, I'd not calle It shit. The AVR is functional and the features work as intended. It is simply a shame that the base performance has gotten worse. This is particularly sad considering that Denon used to build some of the best performing AVR's

Maybe they learnt if ASR likes it, they have been spending too much on engineering... Or just more than necessary to maintain market leadership.

 

[Rockman2]

Would like to see testing on the X4800 H as it is showing available on the Denon site. Hopefully someone will send one to Amir soon.