Denon AVR-X3700H AVR Review

[Artsfols]

Tried the most settings and various configs. I will start with the 4-5), yes, it turns the bass down a bit, so I can undestand, what it does. As for 3) I use it at 0-5dB setting and you are absolutly correct, that with 2) (Dynamic volume), set to Light, it seems that it opens-up.

When one of my friends visited me (he owns a Marantz), he switched my Denon to Pure on a remote and turned up the volume. Denon got quite quiter, in comparison, what we normally run at 30-35, the same level of loudness was delivered at 50-55 in Pure / Direct mode. He called my Audyssey settings a gimmick

On the other hand, ppl do various stuff. Some suggest to limit Audyssey to 500-700 Hz range, some suggest to trun-off midrange compensation in the app, etc., but then I have seen the interview with the Denon rep and the Audyssey author, who did not suggest that

I found your note re subwoofer quite interesting though. I thought, I might not necessarily need it, as MA S200 are a good speaker, though some find them being a bit bright. Ppl suggested me to go with Rel or SVS, but if I would be supposed to get sub, it would be the Silver line W-12. I just would need to prepare my wife for a big box joining our family So - is the "trick" that sub would help the speakers to offload the bass to the sub, by setting some cross-over value? Would that help Denon / the rest of the speakers, to provide better performance / balance?

Thanks,
/Petr

Forgive me if I missed an earlier post, but what's your reference point for saying the stereo sound is not as good. Did you replace an earlier model stereo amp? What was it?
And also did you recently add or change the television? I'll relate an experience I had. Replaced an 'on the wall' plasma display with an new 65 inch LG OLED panel sitting on cabinet between the speakers. After about a year I put that new panel back on the wall. (There were reasons for the delay but I won't bore you with that). The stereo imaging with the panel on the wall compared to on the cabinet is like night and day ... way, way better. The panel on the cabinet was killing the backsplash on the speakers, some of the highs and the imaging in general. Of course, this situation is not universally applicable but it's something to consider.

In general, I would be looking at other factors than the amp. Did you have surrounds and/or centre before? And how would those changes play into what looks like a bright room with lots of reflective surfaces.

Your situation has made me curious because I've just ordered a new X3700H AVR and a centre channel to upgrade my "purist" stereo set up. I'm not actually a purist, but I do like the stereo sound I have now and don't want to spend $X,000 for a step backwards. If I can keep the same sound quality playing SACDs and CDs, I'll be a happy camper. The AVR purchase is to provide better handling of digital streaming sources.

 

[amper42]

According to the latest subscription reports it looks like HBO-Max is eating Netflix's lunch.

The Denon 3700 will work great for stereo or with 3.1. But be careful 3.1 leads to 5.1, 7.1 and 7.2.4. Once you start adding channels and subs the sound can be overwhelmingly addictive. You can still just play stereo with a 7.2.4 Denon 3700 setup but you also have the option for Dolby Surround and multi-channel Stereo fun.

The other observation I noticed after having a nice 7.2.4 setup was the quality of streaming movies is amazingly inferior compared to playing a 4K disc. The ATMOS and overall quality of sound is at least 2 magnitudes superior with 4K disc's versus on-line streaming. My 4K disc collection of impactful movies is growing. It's a journey!

 

[Artsfols]

According to the latest subscription reports it looks like HBO-Max is eating Netflix's lunch.

The Denon 3700 will work great for stereo or with 3.1. But be careful 3.1 leads to 5.1, 7.1 and 7.2.4. Once you start adding channels and subs the sound can be overwhelmingly addictive. You can still just play stereo with a 7.2.4 Denon 3700 setup but you also have the option for Dolby Surround and multi-channel Stereo fun.

The other observation I noticed after having a nice 7.2.4 setup was the quality of streaming movies is amazingly inferior compared to playing a 4K disc. The ATMOS and overall quality of sound is at least 2 magnitudes superior with 4K disc's versus on-line streaming. My 4K disc collection of impactful movies is growing. It's a journey!

I can see some of that happening, but not so much for movies. Although I'll be happy just to get more intelligible voices with my new centre channel.

Sound quality on my Metropolitan Opera HD subscription isn't what it should be, so that's one thing. The Berlin Philharmonic HD subscription is excellent as is the genuine 4K video, but hey, German quality. My other audio source is youtube premium which is surprisingly good.
Step 1 is to get rid of the Apple TV box stereo mixdown setting and see where that leaves me in terms of sound.
Then I can deal with my entertainment computer and my Bluray player. In addition to a few thousand classical CDs and SACDs I have all kinds of concerts on Bluray and DVD disc - rock, blues, folk, opera, classical. So if some of that is available on 4K disc ... could be interesting.
The philosophy is to present as close to the native audio source as I can to the X3700H using HDMI inputs and then let it handle any mixing down, crossovers and cut offs for my 3.2 setup.
Right now there are way too many fingers in the transformation process.
After I stabilize all these digital sources, yes, I may begin to figure out what Atmos is, among other things.

 

[amper42]

I can see some of that happening, but not so much for movies. Although I'll be happy just to get more intelligible voices with my new centre channel.

Sound quality on my Metropolitan Opera HD subscription isn't what it should be, so that's one thing. The Berlin Philharmonic HD subscription is excellent as is the genuine 4K video, but hey, German quality. My other audio source is youtube premium which is surprisingly good.
Step 1 is to get rid of the Apple TV box stereo mixdown setting and see where that leaves me in terms of sound.
Then I can deal with my entertainment computer and my Bluray player. In addition to a few thousand classical CDs and SACDs I have all kinds of concerts on Bluray and DVD disc - rock, blues, folk, opera, classical. So if some of that is available on 4K disc ... could be interesting.
The philosophy is to present as close to the native audio source as I can to the X3700H using HDMI inputs and then let it handle any mixing down, crossovers and cut offs for my 3.2 setup.
Right now there are way to many fingers in the transformation process.
After I stabilize all these digital sources, yes, I may begin to figure out what Atmos is, among other things.

You might want to consider "John Williams In Vienna [CD/Blu-Ray Deluxe Edition]"
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B087SCCYF1/
I bought the Blu-Ray and it was wonderful quality on my Denon receiver and offered the option to use ATMOS as well.

 

[Artsfols]

You might want to consider "John Williams In Vienna [CD/Blu-Ray Deluxe Edition]"
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B087SCCYF1/
I bought the Blu-Ray and it was wonderful quality on my Denon receiver and offered the option to use ATMOS as well.

Some classical afficiando's won't deign to sniff at Williams, but we should all be grateful. George Lucas made an incredible ballsy decision to go with an orchestra soundtrack for the first Star Wars movie when that idea was dying out, and it's been great ever since. I sometimes listen more to the "back ground" music than pay attention to the movie. Williams, Ennio Morricone, Howard Shore, Hans Zimmer (not strictly orchestral but still, original new music) ... all good. The music to 'The Mandalorian' is also exceptional. That was one where I just began closely listening to the music from the first episode. The show? It's okay, probably on a level with the Clone Wars animation series.

 

[theory]

Did anybody get a firmware update recently and what did it fix?

 

[peng]

The other observation I noticed after having a nice 7.2.4 setup was the quality of streaming movies is amazingly inferior compared to playing a 4K disc. The ATMOS and overall quality of sound is at least 2 magnitudes superior with 4K disc's versus on-line streaming. My 4K disc collection of impactful movies is growing. It's a journey!

Can you suggest a few such 4K disc that have the 7.1.4 track and that in your experience has at least 2 magnitudes superior sound (I assume you mean sound quality/effects)? Thank you.

 

[peng]

Some classical afficiando's won't deign to sniff at Williams, but we should all be grateful. George Lucas made an incredible ballsy decision to go with an orchestra soundtrack for the first Star Wars movie when that idea was dying out, and it's been great ever since. I sometimes listen more to the "back ground" music than pay attention to the movie. Williams, Ennio Morricone, Howard Shore, Hans Zimmer (not strictly orchestral but still, original new music) ... all good. The music to 'The Mandalorian' is also exceptional. That was one where I just began closely listening to the music from the first episode. The show? It's okay, probably on a level with the Clone Wars animation series.

But this one features Ann-Sophie Mutter? I thought she's classical only.

 

[amper42]

Can you suggest a few such 4K disc that have the 7.1.4 track and that in your experience has at least 2 magnitudes superior sound (I assume you mean sound quality/effects)? Thank you.

@peng - Here's some examples:
XMen Dark Phoenix ATMOS 4K
https://www.amazon.com/X-Men-Phoenix-Blu-ray-Simon-Kinberg/dp/B07RH666FH/
Watch XMen Dark Phoenix streaming off Amazon or HBO Max and compare it to watching the 4K Blu-ray version in your 4K player. I selected the ATMOS version versus 7.1. (They are both on the disc). It's night and day higher quality.

Blade Runner 2049 ATMOS 4K
https://www.amazon.com/Blade-Runner-2049-UHD-Blu-ray/dp/B075DQGW92/
Totally hot sound that can't be matched by a streaming source.

2012 ATMOS 4K
https://www.amazon.com/2012-4K-Ultra-Blu-ray-Digital/dp/B08LNFVN61/
Crisp and explosive.

Obviously, your choice of content will be different than mine but the sound quality really is substantially better with 4K discs than any movies I have streamed.

 

[Artsfols]

But this one features Ann-Sophie Mutter? I thought she's classical only.

If you look at the selections on the disc, it's popular music, but played by an orchestra. The word 'classical' has different connotations. The 'classical period' refers only to music from Mozart to Schubert, roughly speaking, preceded by the 'baroque period' and followed by the 'romantic' and 'modern'. But most people would include all those periods when you say 'classical music'. And most people, who consider themselves classical music buffs, exclude orchestral music by the likes of John Williams, Andre Rieu and others. However, the music industry charts do list those artists on their 'classical' sales charts. Symphony orchestras, by and large, are not oriented to playing this kind of popular orchestral music. Some of the smaller orchestras will have a 'pops' program, where they play recent composers along with 'bleeding chunks' from the core repertoire, versus a 'masterpiece' or 'signature' series where they play core repertoire. Each program draws a different audience, and most individuals prefer one over the other. There is a degree of condescension in both camps; some pops fans think of the core repertoire fans as 'snobs', and some core repertoire fans regard 'pops' music as undistinguished.
The only point I'll add here is that my friends who know that I like opera always assume that I like Andrea Bocelli,. but for the most part his voice drives me up the wall. That's not snobbishness; it's something about his voice, and there are some articles around about it. But I digress.

 

[peng]

If you look at the selections on the disc, it's popular music, but played by an orchestra. The word 'classical' has different connotations. The 'classical period' refers only to music from Mozart to Schubert, roughly speaking, preceded by the 'baroque period' and followed by the 'romantic' and 'modern'. But most people would include all those periods when you say 'classical music'. And most people, who consider themselves classical music buffs, exclude orchestral music by the likes of John Williams, Andre Rieu and others. However, the music industry charts do list those artists on their 'classical' sales charts. Symphony orchestras, by and large, are not oriented to playing this kind of popular orchestral music. Some of the smaller orchestras will have a 'pops' program, where they play recent composers along with 'bleeding chunks' from the core repertoire, as well as a 'masterpiece' or 'signature' series where they play core repertoire. Each program draws a different audience, and most individuals prefer one over the other. There is a degree of condescension in both camps; some pops fans think of the core repertoire fans as 'snobs', and some core repertoire fans regard 'pops' music as undistinguished.
The only point I'll add here is that my friends who know that I like opera always assume that I like Andrea Bocelli,. but for the most part his voice drives me up the wall. That's not snobbishness; it's something about his voice, and there are some articles around about it. But I digress.

I wasn't suggesting that if it was John Williams then its not classical, just a little surprised to see Ms Mutter teamed up with him (apparently they are friends in recent years), but of course she can take a break and played the John Williams stuff too. If she plays it, it would probably still sound classical enough for me anyway, I think..

Just found a 5 minute clip:
John Williams & Vienna Philharmonic – Williams: “Devil’s Dance” From “The Witches of Eastwick” - YouTube

Is that the one you linked to?
At C$ 48, its quite expensive, but exchange rate is not bad at the moment, and it does have a 5 stars Amazon rating. And it would be my first Atmos Blu ray live concert disc.

 

[Artsfols]

@peng - Here's some examples:
XMen Dark Phoenix ATMOS 4K
https://www.amazon.com/X-Men-Phoenix-Blu-ray-Simon-Kinberg/dp/B07RH666FH/
Watch XMen Dark Phoenix streaming off Amazon or HBO Max and compare it to watching the 4K Blu-ray version in your 4K player. I selected the ATMOS version versus 7.1. (They are both on the disc). It's night and day higher quality.

Blade Runner 2049 ATMOS 4K
https://www.amazon.com/Blade-Runner-2049-UHD-Blu-ray/dp/B075DQGW92/
Totally hot sound that can't be matched by a streaming source.

2012 ATMOS 4K
https://www.amazon.com/2012-4K-Ultra-Blu-ray-Digital/dp/B08LNFVN61/
Crisp and explosive.

Obviously, your choice of content will be different than mine but the sound quality really is substantially better with 4K discs than any movies I have streamed.

I'd go so far as to say that if you want the utmost in quality, reliability and bandwidth, use a local store and put it on a wire. This principle has very wide application. For example, I'm typing this on a portable keyboard looking at my large screen TV. But a wired keyboard and mouse is still preferential for reliability and speed.
Although I stream a lot of musical performance content, the quality still doesn't match a well recorded redbook CD played on my CD player. Digressing here, but as far as the X3700H is concerned, it's an open question to me whether or not it will do that well. (It should, if only because the player, the speakers and room acoustics are far greater determinants in sound quality than amplifier circuits.)

 

[Artsfols]

I wasn't suggesting that if it was John Williams then its not classical, just a little surprised to see Ms Mutter teamed up with him (apparently they are friends in recent years), but of course she can take a break and played the John Williams stuff too. If she plays it, it would probably still sound classical enough for me anyway, I think..

Just found a 5 minute clip:
John Williams & Vienna Philharmonic – Williams: “Devil’s Dance” From “The Witches of Eastwick” - YouTube

Is that the one you linked to?
At C$ 48, its quite expensive, but exchange rate is not bad at the moment, and it does have a 5 stars Amazon rating. And it would be my first Atmos Blu ray live concert disc.

The link came from our 4K disc afficiando, who will soon have all of us spending even more money, 'amper42'.

Yes, it's not what Mutter might normally do. A little more background here. The 'Vienna Philharmonic' is easily one of the best 5 orchestras in the world, and they have a long tradition of performing classical music in a popular vein, beginning with the various Strauss's of 'Blue Danube' waltz fame from the late 1800s. The VPO is also acclaimed for their New Year's Eve/ Day concerts consisting of Strauss and other short popular pieces. This format has now been emulated by other orchestras and it's a fun, celebratory way to bring in the New Year, as well as representing a deep tradition.

I haven't heard this disc, but think you can have confidence it'll be a quality performance.

Here is one more to consider, also with the VPO.

https://www.amazon.ca/Nozze-Figaro-Blu-ray-Wiener-Philharmoniker/dp/B01LYC5OL1/ref=sr_1_17

I know I'm going to be looking at 4K players now, and I do find the thought of just plugging one more HDMI source into my new X3700H to be very appealing, versus adapting one more device to the analogue stereo format.

 

[amper42]

I'd go so far as to say that if you want the utmost in quality, reliability and bandwidth, use a local store and put it on a wire. This principle has very wide application. For example, I'm typing this on a portable keyboard looking at my large screen TV. But a wired keyboard and mouse is still preferential for reliability and speed.
Although I stream a lot of musical performance content, the quality still doesn't match a well recorded redbook CD played on my CD player. Digressing here, but as far as the X3700H is concerned, it's an open question to me whether or not it will do that well. (It should, if only because the player, the speakers and room acoustics are far greater determinants in sound quality than amplifier circuits.)

I use Audirvana with the Denon 4700 and my AIFF ripped CD's on the MacBook Pro. It's a dream combination as the Denon DLNA UPnP interface thru Audirvana streams the music without any compression directly to the receiver. I can also play the CD on the Denon DCD-800NE player but they sound the same as the AIFF ripped version and the interface is faster.

Audirvana lets me select and play a huge collection of music CD's at the touch of a button or the DCD-800NE CD player can be controlled by the Denon 4700 remote which is also cool. Either way, if I find music I really like I buy the CD. Qobuz is great for trying a ton of music. But the music I love, I prefer to own.

 

[amper42]

I know I'm going to be looking at 4K players now, and I do find the thought of just plugging one more HDMI source into my new X3700H to be very appealing, versus adapting one more device to the analogue stereo format.

I went with the Sony UBP-X800M2 Blu-ray 4K player. It's a quality unit. Much better than my UBP-X700. I found it on sale for $199 at Electronic Express. If you are not in a hurry the sales on these units are great about 4x a year.

 

[Artsfols]

I use Audirvana with the Denon 4700 and my AIFF ripped CD's on the MacBook Pro. It's a dream combination as the Denon DLNA UPnP interface thru Audirvana streams the music without any compression directly to the receiver. I can also play the CD on the Denon DCD-800NE player but they sound the same as the AIFF ripped version and the interface is faster.

Audirvana lets me select and play a huge collection of music CD's at the touch of a button or the DCD-800NE CD player can be controlled by the Denon 4700 remote which is also cool. Either way, if I find music I really like I buy the CD. Qobuz is great for trying a ton of music. But the music I love, I prefer to own.

Before I unpack what you've written about CDs, am I correct to think the same is available on the X3700H?

 

[amper42]

Before I unpack what you've written about CDs, am I correct to think the same is available on the X3700H?

Yes, the Denon 3700 also supports the DLNA UPnP interface.

 

[peng]

In my experience, quality of the source recording is by far the most important factor. A top quality recording will sound better using a decent media player and my AVR-X4400H than a lower quality recording using the same media player with any of my separate preamp/power amps.

That's why when someone mentioned good sounding discs I pay attention. In fact I have a thread on Audioholics to collect feedbacks from members on high quality recordings, I believe in the end I have collected more than 100 titles of CDs, SACDs, BR, DVD-A, and even filed iirc.

 

[amper42]

That's why when someone mentioned good sounding discs I pay attention. In fact I have a thread on Audioholics to collect feedbacks from members on high quality recordings, I believe in the end I have collected more than 100 titles of CDs, SACDs, BR, DVD-A, and even filed iirc.

I'm listening to "John Williams In Vienna [CD/Blu-Ray Deluxe Edition]" right now in stereo on my BMR's in the office.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B087SCCYF1/
It comes with both Stereo and Blu-Ray ATMOS versions.

 

[oupee]

Your situation has made me curious because I've just ordered a new X3700H AVR and a centre channel to upgrade my "purist" stereo set up. I'm not actually a purist, but I do like the stereo sound I have now and don't want to spend $X,000 for a step backwards. If I can keep the same sound quality playing SACDs and CDs, I'll be a happy camper. The AVR purchase is to provide better handling of digital streaming sources.

Can you write what you use on a stereo? If you do not want to come here into a private message.