Denon AVR-X3700H AVR Review

[Pdxwayne]

For SINAD comparison with the A21, you should look at its specified THD which is:

Total Harmonic Distortion
< 0.2 % at full power
< 0.03 % at typical listening levels

0.2% is -54 dB
0.03% is -70.45 dB

So the SINAD of the A21 would be approx. 54 dB at rated output, and 70.4 dB at what they considered typical listening levels. Now that's just the specifications, for real world bench tests, you can refer to the Stereophile review's graph below:

Note that it's for the improved A21+, expect the A21 to have slightly higher THD+N, and less powerful.

Parasound Halo A 21+ power amplifier Measurements | Stereophile.com

4 Ohm load:

View attachment 95986

8 Ohm load:

View attachment 95987

Thanks! I do wonder the differences in SINAD between the A21 and Denon is audible. If audible, how would we hear the difference?

 

[peng]

Thanks! I do wonder the differences in SINAD between the A21 and Denon is audible. If audible, how would we hear the difference?

All else being equal, whether you can hear the difference between SINAD of 80 dB or 100 dB depends on a number of things. If you want to be sure there is nothing audible due to THD+N then you have to go with about 115 dB because at that point, you an almost be 100% certain that THD+N would be below the threshold of audibility without relying on "masking" by the music signal and/or ambient noise.

In my two channel room, I have compared an AVR-X3400H with the A21+an ext. DAC, and the A21+ my Cambridge Audio preamp, at my typical spl when listening to music, I could not hear a difference. There are other distortions, such as IMD that is probably easier to hear, but the Denon and the A21's IMD appears to be low, may be below the threshold of audibility too.

 

[Daz25]

3700h Owner here who ‘upgraded’ from the 3600h.

So I had the unit for a month now, and currently in contact with Denon support over my issue which is now 100% confirmed after following Denon customer support advice to unplug/replug/rest unit.

The issue: the 3700h is not as powerfull as the 3600h, most noticeable in the subwoofer, sub also lacks the tight impactful bass that it’s predecessor had, 3700h is more sloppy and boomy. All other equipemnt (speakers) are the same, this was a simple swap out.

the detail: I noticed right away during audysyss set up, the test tones didn’t play with the same loudness and impact as the 3600h. Both units asked me to set the sub amp gain knob to the same point, but after calibration finished the 3700h set my sub to -1.5db (done this many times) where as the 3600h would always set it to -6db, this tells me that the pre out for the sub is nowhere near as powerfull as the 3600h is. I keep the sub behind my sofa and the 3600h had my sub kicking me in the back on music, a nice deep bass that I can feel but not hear (not muddying the sound of the front) the 3700h is opposite, even after I turn the sub level to +5 to get same level as the 3600h the sub lacks the tonal quality the 3600h had, it’s more boomy and muddy, I.e. I hear it too much and feel it not enough.

has anyone else noticed this coming from the 3600h to the 3700h? I’m regretting I ever upgraded now.

edit: when I go into menu/speakers/Audyssey setup/check results/eq/reference I’m fairly sure I was able to see the curve for the sub before on the 3600h but I can’t on the 3700h or am I mistaken?

 

[MarsianC#]

Any objective data? XT32 should be the same, DSP is new. Strange...

I was able to see the curve for the sub before on the 3600h

Nope, sub curve is only visible in MultEQ app.

 

[Daz25]

Only objective data is my sub on 3600h would consistently be set to -7 to -6 to every time I ran audysyss and the 3700h consistently sets it to -1.5. Ran audysyss multiple times on both units, on board and via app. Also the front channels were always -8 to -7 on the 3600h, now on the 3700 it’s consistently -5 to -4. This data is consistent with what I am hearing, which is subjective, however, I am a drummer with a keen musical ear and have been through numerous car audio set ups etc and I knew instantly the first ever time I ran audysyss on the 3700h that the test tones were not as loud, then when I played music after and dialled in all the settings I was convinced this is not the same as the 3600h.

 

[Matt S]

I’ve spent hours doing this very thing. I can switch from x3700h/a21 to P6/A21 with a few clicks of my remote. All my notes above were about using the x3700H in preamp only mode.

BTW: a thread jack, but for some mysterious reason, the HEOS implementation of Amazon Music HD on this receiver sounds fantastic (unlike Tidal on HEOS). I just wish it were easier to use (it is not).

I completely agree re the Heos user interface. Its terrible and makes using Tidal or Amazon a chore. I'm unable to hear a difference between either.

By the way, did you notice a response by Sancus re the fact that in pure direct mode, Audyssey is disabled? Just checking that you are aware of this.

 

[DerRoland]

@Daz25: are the measured sub distance (=phase) on the 3700 the same as on the 3600?

 

[Daz25]

@Daz25: are the measured sub distance (=phase) on the 3700 the same as on the 3600?

Yes very similar distance / time delay set on all channels between the two unit.

 

[reg19]

I'm puzzled by the app use, Pure Direct disables Audyssey completely. And also all bass management unless you are using LFE+Main mode.

Thanks

 

[reg19]

3700h Owner here who ‘upgraded’ from the 3600h.

So I had the unit for a month now, and currently in contact with Denon support over my issue which is now 100% confirmed after following Denon customer support advice to unplug/replug/rest unit.

The issue: the 3700h is not as powerfull as the 3600h, most noticeable in the subwoofer, sub also lacks the tight impactful bass that it’s predecessor had, 3700h is more sloppy and boomy. All other equipemnt (speakers) are the same, this was a simple swap out.

the detail: I noticed right away during audysyss set up, the test tones didn’t play with the same loudness and impact as the 3600h. Both units asked me to set the sub amp gain knob to the same point, but after calibration finished the 3700h set my sub to -1.5db (done this many times) where as the 3600h would always set it to -6db, this tells me that the pre out for the sub is nowhere near as powerfull as the 3600h is. I keep the sub behind my sofa and the 3600h had my sub kicking me in the back on music, a nice deep bass that I can feel but not hear (not muddying the sound of the front) the 3700h is opposite, even after I turn the sub level to +5 to get same level as the 3600h the sub lacks the tonal quality the 3600h had, it’s more boomy and muddy, I.e. I hear it too much and feel it not enough.

has anyone else noticed this coming from the 3600h to the 3700h? I’m regretting I ever upgraded now.

edit: when I go into menu/speakers/Audyssey setup/check results/eq/reference I’m fairly sure I was able to see the curve for the sub before on the 3600h but I can’t on the 3700h or am I mistaken?

Has anyone else been able to verify that this subwoofer output issue Daz25 is having is just an isolated incident or not?

I just purchased a new DAC (RME ADI-2 FS Ver 2) and streamer (Auralic Aries, Femto version). I’d like to give the 3700h another try by feeding the DAC output into the 3700h. Need to figure out a way to get main pre-out signal to subwoofer (it also needs to go to the power amp).

 

[Arran]

So just checking i bought a x3700h and emotiva xpa gen 3, 3 channel power amp for the l/c/r from what ive read that will mean the center channel will draw power from the amp rather than internal amp even though you only assign for fronts as power amp. Also does the center unload its unused power to the other channels as the power is drawn from the external power amp. Thus the idea is that it will give more headroom for the 8 other surround channels that are using the x3700h's internal amp. Thank you would love a reply

 

[oupee]

3700h Owner here who ‘upgraded’ from the 3600h.

So I had the unit for a month now, and currently in contact with Denon support over my issue which is now 100% confirmed after following Denon customer support advice to unplug/replug/rest unit.

The issue: the 3700h is not as powerfull as the 3600h, most noticeable in the subwoofer, sub also lacks the tight impactful bass that it’s predecessor had, 3700h is more sloppy and boomy. All other equipemnt (speakers) are the same, this was a simple swap out.

the detail: I noticed right away during audysyss set up, the test tones didn’t play with the same loudness and impact as the 3600h. Both units asked me to set the sub amp gain knob to the same point, but after calibration finished the 3700h set my sub to -1.5db (done this many times) where as the 3600h would always set it to -6db, this tells me that the pre out for the sub is nowhere near as powerfull as the 3600h is. I keep the sub behind my sofa and the 3600h had my sub kicking me in the back on music, a nice deep bass that I can feel but not hear (not muddying the sound of the front) the 3700h is opposite, even after I turn the sub level to +5 to get same level as the 3600h the sub lacks the tonal quality the 3600h had, it’s more boomy and muddy, I.e. I hear it too much and feel it not enough.

has anyone else noticed this coming from the 3600h to the 3700h? I’m regretting I ever upgraded now.

edit: when I go into menu/speakers/Audyssey setup/check results/eq/reference I’m fairly sure I was able to see the curve for the sub before on the 3600h but I can’t on the 3700h or am I mistaken?

I returned 4700 for the same reason you did. I had a Marantz 6013 and it had a better stereo sound and especially a much better sound in souround, especially on bass. I thought my subwoofer broke. It sounded tragic in the home theater. I ended up with the Marantz SR8015 and I'm happy and especially surprised by the stereo sound. Expensive experience.

i am using google translator

 

[eduardw]

I have the 3700 and have not observed any problems related to subwoofer and bass

 

[peng]

I have the 3700 and have not observed any problems related to subwoofer and bass

I bet if you had bought the 4700 you wouldn't have such problems either.

 

[oupee]

I returned 4700 for the same reason you did. I had a Marantz 6013 and it had a better stereo sound and especially a much better sound in souround, especially on bass. I thought my subwoofer broke. It sounded tragic in the home theater. I ended up with the Marantz SR8015 and I'm happy and especially surprised by the stereo sound. Expensive experience.

i am using google translator

The worst thing about the home theater was that my seat vibrated and I didn't hear any bass

 

[davidc]

I bought the traditional tan colored fans but with the new Amazon, they take a week to get here. Currently, I am pulling air out of the cabinet to reduce dust since I do not have dust covers. It seems to work better with the fan moved to the left side.

This is a vacation home and is using a last century Sunfire Cinema amplifier (200 WPC). It seems to be un-killable, even the amber light is still working. At some point, it will be replaced but in this environment the most important features are cool running and reliable. That is not that easy to find. Many newer devices, class-D or class-AB don't have 20 years under their belt. 3 AHB2s are overkill for this location.

- Rich

Rich, in case you don't know, there are many great techs and repair people on The Carver Site forum that can keep your Sunfire running strong.

https://thecarversite.com/

 

[RichB]

Rich, in case you don't know, there are many great techs and repair people on The Carver Site forum that can keep your Sunfire running strong.

https://thecarversite.com/

I used one of these services in the past for my Sunfire Cinema Grand.

I have purchased and ATI AT525NC to replace this amp. The home is 5 hours away and we rent it as well. The amp needs to be reliable above all else and 20+ years, Sunfire has been a stalwart performer..

- Rich

 

[davidc]

Indeed, good point. The psychoacoustics hypothesis (they sound warm because they're supposed to) has merit (and I love it because for once I'm in my area of expertise, which is refreshing in a sea of engineers). But what about distorsion? Could Marantz mimic the type of distorsion displayed by most tube amps that is perceived as "warm" and "musical"?

They absolutely could. It's easy. This is what Bob Carver did a couple of decades ago to make his Magnetic Field Amps sound identical to the uber-expensive tube amp they were comparing it to. People were flabbergasted. Golden ears even.

 

[RichB]

They absolutely could. It's easy. This is what Bob Carver did a couple of decades ago to make his Magnetic Field Amps sound identical to the uber-expensive tube amp they were comparing it to. People were flabbergasted. Golden ears even.

The amp would require some golden LEDs mounted in tubes and optional heater to create the full effect.

- Rich

 

[circumstances]

They absolutely could. It's easy. This is what Bob Carver did a couple of decades ago to make his Magnetic Field Amps sound identical to the uber-expensive tube amp they were comparing it to. People were flabbergasted. Golden ears even.

I still have my 201 watt(?) cube, Carver magnetic field amplifier, from 1982.