Denon AVR-X3700H AVR Review

[BullBuchanan]

You've got it. Best upgrade would be a UMik 1 with REW, and some time invested in learning how to use it.

Have one and I've measured already and done room correction using multi32 on the denon. I don't really have much ability to do acoustic treatments or play with speaker position much. but it's a carpeted room with three large couches in a 16 x 19 room with 12' ceilings.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Have one and I've measured already and done room correction using multi32 on the denon. I don't really have much ability to do acoustic treatments or play with speaker position much. but it's a carpeted room with three large couches in a 16 x 19 room with 12' ceilings.

You could post your measurements here and get some input and help. What are your speakers? (Sorry, if you told us already and I overlooked it).

I also have a x3700 and use the extra Multi-EQX software for better control and adjustability and confirmed the results with REW and UMIK1. Nowadays, if I even have to change anything at all, I do it all in Multi-EQX, as by now, I have confirmed, that what it is doing, is correct.

 

[ban25]

Have one and I've measured already and done room correction using multi32 on the denon. I don't really have much ability to do acoustic treatments or play with speaker position much. but it's a carpeted room with three large couches in a 16 x 19 room with 12' ceilings.

Do you have Mid-Range Correction turned off on Audyssey? Definitely post your sweeps so we can take a look and help you make adjustments.

 

[BullBuchanan]

You could post your measurements here and get some input and help. What are your speakers? (Sorry, if you told us already and I overlooked it).

I also have a x3700 and use the extra Multi-EQX software for better control and adjustability and confirmed the results with REW and UMIK1. Nowadays, if I even have to change anything at all, I do it all in Multi-EQX, as by now, I have confirmed, that what it is doing, is correct.

Do you have Mid-Range Correction turned off on Audyssey? Definitely post your sweeps so we can take a look and help you make adjustments.

I have Tekton Double Impacts. I just realized that I didn't do post-correction measurements. I'm going to do some of those today after football. In the interim I do have the measurements from the MultiEQ android. I'm well aware the "after" measurements from MultiEQ are nonsense, but the "before" accurately track against my rew moving microphone measurements.

There are definitely some issues in the low frequencies but overall I don't think it's that bad. I don't believe I have mid range compensation on. It shows off in the app, and I can't find a setting for it on the receiver UI. Speakers set to small, 60hz crossover.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

I have Tekton Double Impacts. I just realized that I didn't do post-correction measurements. I'm going to do some of those today after football. In the interim I do have the measurements from the MultiEQ android. I'm well aware the "after" measurements from MultiEQ are nonsense, but the "before" accurately track against my rew moving microphone measurements.

There are definitely some issues in the low frequencies but overall I don't think it's that bad. I don't believe I have mid range compensation on. It shows off in the app, and I can't find a setting for it on the receiver UI. Speakers set to small, 60hz crossover.

View attachment 329613

You are aiming for a flat in-room prefernce curve. Is that what you like / prefer?

Either way, I would play with this preference curve. Maybe start with Harman and take it from there until you like the sound.

Of course REW will tell more (maybe cross a bit higher eg 80Hz to have your sub “help” filling the dip of your right channel at around 90Hz). But too early to tell, need to see REW before and after.

 

[BullBuchanan]

You are aiming for a flat in-room prefernce curve. Is that what you like / prefer?

Either way, I would play with this preference curve. Maybe start with Harman and take it from there until you like the sound.

Of course REW will tell more (maybe cross a bit higher eg 80Hz to have your sub “help” filling the dip of your right channel at around 90Hz). But too early to tell, need to see REW before and after.

I'm honestly not sure. I have all my headphone set up with harman curves via Equalizer APO and I think they sound better, but it's all sighted so it could be placebo. I don't have a great way to ABX curves. I tend to take Harman at their word that it's the right way to go, but if I were to deviate from it, I'm not really sure what I'd do differently. Sometimes I push the harman bass boost down the frequency spectrum a few hz as I find bumps around 100hz+ can make things sound muddy, but that's about it.

In this case I'm mostly just after audibility. My system does 95% of it's duty as home theater and maybe once a month or so I'll sit down and listen to some music. When it comes to HT, I've found that loud dynamics like gunshots, broken glass, sword clashes could be actually painful to listen to, so I've turned on some compression that helps in those cases, though I try to remember to disable that when listening to music. I chalk that up to my speakers having a wide dynamic range and my room being less than Ideal with my walls being untreated, primary LP against the back wall and speakers only a couple feet from the front wall.

 

[dlaloum]

I've been having my x3700h powering my Tekton Double Impacts for around a year and a half now mostly with spotify as a source via an Nvidia Shield. Initially it was a wow system for me, but as time has gone by and I've adjusted to the sound, I don't seem to be able to hear as deeply into the music as I'd like with subtleties being covered up. It seems to be more shouty to me than what I'd like. I listen primarily to folk music, so chasing a wide open sound that feels like a live performance for 1 is kind of my thing. I'm trying to figure out how much of this is just my perception, or what (if anything) could possibly be improved.

I'd considered trying a different amp, just for the sake of it, but I want to make sure I'm not wasting my time and cash chasing things that don't matter. It seems from the data gathered here with respect to distortion and noise that the x3700h should be pretty much transparent with any flaws inaudible. Is that right? if so, I already know that i can't reliably tell 320kbps VBR from FLAC, so spotify is unlikley to be a culprit. That would then just leave room, speakers position & speakers as variables no?

Those speakers have an impedance dip down to around 2 ohm at the woofer crossover - they will be happiest with a high current amp (which the X3700 is not!).

If you can borrow an appropriate amp to try out, you might find that just powering the front L & R using an external amp, will sort out your issue.

In the D&M range you would need to go up to the AV1 to get high current...

Preferably look for amps that are formally rated at 2 ohm... - sadly rare!
I use a Crown XLS2500 for my speakers, which drop down to 1.6 ohm - made an immediately noticeable difference over the AVR's internal amps - the surrounds, heights and even center can then be run on the internal amps, as it frees up the power supply to do the other channels.

 

[BullBuchanan]

Those speakers have an impedance dip down to around 2 ohm at the woofer crossover - they will be happiest with a high current amp (which the X3700 is not!).

If you can borrow an appropriate amp to try out, you might find that just powering the front L & R using an external amp, will sort out your issue.

In the D&M range you would need to go up to the AV1 to get high current...

Preferably look for amps that are formally rated at 2 ohm... - sadly rare!
I use a Crown XLS2500 for my speakers, which drop down to 1.6 ohm - made an immediately noticeable difference over the AVR's internal amps - the surrounds, heights and even center can then be run on the internal amps, as it frees up the power supply to do the other channels.

Interesting. Where did you find that out? These have always been described by reviewers as easy to drive speakers that love low power amps.

It's my understanding that the primary impact Id see from running an undercurrent amp would be amplifier heat/damage and potentially distortion when pushed right? I don't really have any problem pushing these as far as I want to and haven't experienced any amp shutdowns.

 

[BullBuchanan]

You are aiming for a flat in-room prefernce curve. Is that what you like / prefer?

Either way, I would play with this preference curve. Maybe start with Harman and take it from there until you like the sound.

Of course REW will tell more (maybe cross a bit higher eg 80Hz to have your sub “help” filling the dip of your right channel at around 90Hz). But too early to tell, need to see REW before and after.

Measurements taken with RTA 1/48 periodic pink noise on infinite averaging. I used a moving microphone technique at 0 degrees of head position until the averaging stopped and then went another 60 samples. On average 120 samples per measurement. Dynamic EQ was enabled at 10db and dynamic loudness set to light. Speakers set to small with crossover at 40hz and LFE set to 120hz. I choose those settings while testing for dialogue audibility, removing boominess in bass and limiting sharp unpleasant dynamic loudness. I limited the frequency spectrum to 500hz after trying both that and full band.

From the measurements below it seems my listening position has nulls at 40 and 80Hz, but I wouldn't expect either of those things to be a rootcause of my perceived issues with the system, though maybe the hump in 100-200 is to blame. Interestingly, it doesn't seem like xt32 multiEQ is doing a whole lot. It mostly seems like it's smoothing out 20-40hz and otherwise just shifting problem frequencies around or doing nothing at all. For instance, on the all speaker measurement it just pushes the peak from 60hz to 85hz and on the right speaker it just pushes the null from 80hz to 120hz. Other than that it's pretty similar.

All speakers raw measurement

All Speakers smoothed 1/12 (Blue- Direct / Orange Stereo Corrected)

Left speaker smoothed 1/12 (Blue - Direct/ Purple Stereo Corrected)

Right Speaker (Blue - Direct/ Red Stereo Corrected)

Sub (Green - Direct / Purple Stereo Corrected)

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Measurements taken with RTA 1/48 periodic pink noise on infinite averaging. I used a moving microphone technique at 0 degrees of head position until the averaging stopped and then went another 60 samples. On average 120 samples per measurement. Dynamic EQ was enabled at 10db and dynamic loudness set to light. Speakers set to small with crossover at 40hz and LFE set to 120hz. I choose those settings while testing for dialogue audibility, removing boominess in bass and limiting sharp unpleasant dynamic loudness. I limited the frequency spectrum to 500hz after trying both that and full band.

From the measurements below it seems my listening position has nulls at 40 and 80Hz, but I wouldn't expect either of those things to be a rootcause of my perceived issues with the system, though maybe the hump in 100-200 is to blame. Interestingly, it doesn't seem like xt32 multiEQ is doing a whole lot. It mostly seems like it's smoothing out 20-40hz and otherwise just shifting problem frequencies around or doing nothing at all. For instance, on the all speaker measurement it just pushes the peak from 60hz to 85hz and on the right speaker it just pushes the null from 80hz to 120hz. Other than that it's pretty similar.

All speakers raw measurement

All Speakers smoothed 1/12 (Blue- Direct / Orange Stereo Corrected)

Left speaker smoothed 1/12 (Blue - Direct/ Purple Stereo Corrected)

Right Speaker (Blue - Direct/ Red Stereo Corrected)

Sub (Green - Direct / Purple Stereo Corrected)

Looks not too bad and I don’t see any major problems. And changing equipment will not fix your perceived problems because the variations you see are in the order of several dBs.

From your description of your perceived problems (shouty) it is very hard to remotely replicate what exactly you mean. So best you try to adjust your target (preference) curve until you find improvements.

Maybe have a look at the slight depression at around 400Hz or add a bit more tilt (the jump at 10k doesn’t need to be there, but it is pretty high up and most of us don’t hear well at those frequencies). But again, it is trail and error.

 

[dlaloum]

Interesting. Where did you find that out? These have always been described by reviewers as easy to drive speakers that love low power amps.

It's my understanding that the primary impact Id see from running an undercurrent amp would be amplifier heat/damage and potentially distortion when pushed right? I don't really have any problem pushing these as far as I want to and haven't experienced any amp shutdowns.

Apologies, my error... came across it here:

Very Disappointed with Tekton Double Impacts

I am a musician of many years and was responsible for making some really great players sax mouthpieces which I did for almost four decades and I also have my own line of saxophones for what that’s worth. I bought my Double Impacts on a few months ago and at which time was informed that they would...

audiophilestyle.com

But the measurements were for the Tekton Ulfberhts...

I have not been able to find a chart for the Double impacts (so take my previous comment with a pinch of salt!)

The impact of low impedance on an amp not designed for it varies widely... it can range from overheating/self-protection, to various kinds of increased distortion (both due to insufficient current from the power supply, but also from instability with feedback loops not designed for low impedances) - In my case, the midrange and voices sounded "confused" less clear than I am used to them being, imaging was lost and the soundstage collapsed - but all these are what one might call "fine points" of Audio, and loads of people might not have noticed them.

Switching to either my Quad 606 or Crown XLS2500 resolved the problem completely. Audible difference between the Quad and the Crown, was nothing that I could honestly confirm in a blind test... ie: no difference, even though at 2 ohm that Quad is delivering less than 90W, and the Crown is delivering 1200W.... - both sounded better than the AVR when driving my speakers - both are rated and specced for loads down to or below 1 ohm.

 

[john11]

I've been told by a dealer that the sound quality of this denon 3700 is similar to the lower models like the 2700 and the 1700, just with the 3700 you get more features but the sound quality is all the same.
And the sound quality of the higher models like the 4500 and the 4700 is the same as the 3700, just with the 4500 and 4700 you get more features. Is true, do you have any opinions or thoughts

 

[HarmonicTHD]

I've been told by a dealer that the sound quality of this denon 3700 is similar to the lower models like the 2700 and the 1700, just with the 3700 you get more features but the sound quality is all the same.
And the sound quality of the higher models like the 4500 and the 4700 is the same as the 3700, just with the 4500 and 4700 you get more features. Is true, do you have any opinions or thoughts

The 3700 and higher has Audyssey XT32 which is the most important difference and allows much improved room correction and EQing including the use of the additional MultiEQX software.

The X2700 has only Audyssey Multi EQ XT which is very much outdated and I wouldn’t bother with.

Yes the remaining differences are smaller features such as power and ATMOS I believe. Here it depends on what you want.

 

[john11]

Thanks! But in pure sound quality terms is there much difference not including features. I mean is it all the same amplifer, the higher priced models giving more bells whistles and features, and the lower priced ones giving less.
It's confusing because amir gave this 3700 a score of 88, the 4700 got 87, the 6700 got 83, the 8500 got 85, and the 8500 is over £2000

 

[antcollinet]

Thanks! But in pure sound quality terms is there much difference not including features. I mean is it all the same amplifer, the higher priced models giving more bells whistles and features, and the lower priced ones giving less.
It's confusing because amir gave this 3700 a score of 88, the 4700 got 87, the 6700 got 83, the 8500 got 85, and the 8500 is over £2000

There is basically no real world practical difference between those scores. In real world listening, you'd not hear any difference.


Differences will come (as pointed out above) by the performance of the room correction.

 

[peng]

I've been told by a dealer that the sound quality of this denon 3700 is similar to the lower models like the 2700 and the 1700, just with the 3700 you get more features but the sound quality is all the same.
And the sound quality of the higher models like the 4500 and the 4700 is the same as the 3700, just with the 4500 and 4700 you get more features. Is true, do you have any opinions or thoughts

In my opinion, your dealer is an honest individual who probably is not selling as much as the less honest ones lol. He could have told you the 3700 would sound similar to the highest separates such as the likes of McIntosh's lol... Serious I do agree with him to a large extent, it just depends on many things.

 

[Dougey_Jones]

The 3700 and higher has Audyssey XT32 which is the most important difference and allows much improved room correction and EQing including the use of the additional MultiEQX software.

Is the x3700h compatible with the MultEQX software and new calibrated mic setup?

If so, how close to Dirac Live does that combo get, or is it better in some ways?

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Is the x3700h compatible with the MultEQX software and new calibrated mic setup?

If so, how close to Dirac Live does that combo get, or is it better in some ways?

Yes the x3700 is compatible with MultiEQX (that’s what I am using btw).

As for what is better. This is a hotly discussed topic, unfortunately with of anecdotes and hardly any facts. Some (eg Peng) provided some before and after FR sweeps of the two, but I don’t remember if he measured the default automatic result or if he tweaked it.

Therfore my subjective impression of the discussion is, that both DL and MultiEQX can lead to very good results, however it doesn’t come out of the box. Just recently some people posted terrible results with Dirac apparently being new to the topic The MultiEQX has many options and you have to familiarize yourself with the software, design your own preference curve ( eg start with Harman) and ideally double check the result with REW. As for Dirac I can’t say anything about. My 2 cents.

 

[Dougey_Jones]

I use Dirac on my MiniDSP Flex, and had it on my RZ50 that I sold. I didn’t love the subjective result of Dirac on the RZ50, but do with the MiniDSP.

I switched to a 3700 and currently have it set up with the Audyssey iPhone app with custom curve, basically Harman with the treble dip removed and subjectively think it sounds great.

Wondering if I’d gain anything by getting the new software and calibrated mic..

 

[HarmonicTHD]

I use Dirac on my MiniDSP Flex, and had it on my RZ50 that I sold. I didn’t love the subjective result of Dirac on the RZ50, but do with the MiniDSP.

I switched to a 3700 and currently have it set up with the Audyssey iPhone app with custom curve, basically Harman with the treble dip removed and subjectively think it sounds great.

Wondering if I’d gain anything by getting the new software and calibrated mic..

I dont know if you gain anything. Maybe take a REW measurement and see if there are any up issues remaining, which you can’t solve with the app. If not, keep it as is.

MultiEQX doesn’t do any magical algorithm. It just gives you a lot of manual control of everything so you can tweak manually what you like tweaking. But again one needs to invest some time into it.

I think you can download MultiEQX and run it in demo mode. It gives you an idea what it can do and can’t do.