Denon AVR-X3700H AVR Review

[Chromatischism]

Yes. The 3700 is even more flexible than the 3600.

 

[rvsixer]

have a chance to get my hands on a x3700h, it was not mentioned in the review but can you decouple the amp for the front channels like x3600h? or is clipping a non issue for this model?

It was mentioned and tested in the review. See first post, and first two AP graphs.

 

[Triplefun]

If you can run it in full preamp mode which results in all power amps being decoupled.

 

[peng]

have a chance to get my hands on a x3700h, it was not mentioned in the review but can you decouple the amp for the front channels like x3600h? or is clipping a non issue for this model?

Yes you can do that to the front left and right channels but not the center channel.
Clipping is not an issue unless you need higher than 4 V or may be as low as 3.5 V and/or drive amps with relatively low input impedance. It depends if you based it on Amir's definition of clipping, or not. If you do, that it would be an issue if you need more than 1.4 to 1.5 V. Amir called it clipping at above that point because SINAD started to drop more rapidly, to about 75 dB by the time it hit about 2 V. I totally disagree with that as clipping, but he's the boss (doesn't mean he's right on this but it's his privilege to say that's clipping).

 

[rccarguy]

Yes you can do that to the front left and right channels but not the center channel.
Clipping is not an issue unless you need higher than 4 V or may be as low as 3.5 V and/or drive amps with relatively low input impedance. It depends if you based it on Amir's definition of clipping, or not. If you do, that it would be an issue if you need more than 1.4 to 1.5 V. Amir called it clipping at above that point because SINAD started to drop more rapidly, to about 75 dB by the time it hit about 2 V. I totally disagree with that as clipping, but he's the boss (doesn't mean he's right on this but it's his privilege to say that's clipping).

Not a problem, unless you have amps which require non standard levels of voltage.

 

[dlaloum]

Not a problem, unless you have amps which require non standard levels of voltage.

Trouble is, there are no standards!

There were in the past 2 de-facto standards.... Domestic unbalanced RCA @ 0.7V and Commercial/Pro Balanced @1.4V

But then CD players started coming out with outputs of circa 2V, and peeps started driving power amps directly from those...

Then vendors discovered they could design and spec their amps for a higher V input (ie: lower gain) - and if you have lower gain, you typically also have lower noise and distortion...
So now we have a rash of power amps on the market, that effectively cannot be driven by the preamps of 20 to 30 years ago.

Looking at the formal specs of most AVR's they are still based on the traditional de-facto standard... they typically spec 1V output, and when you push for more information the techs may tell you that it is capable of up to 2V.

When actually measured, most of these AVR's can output over 3V.... so yes they can match well with current generation low gain power amps... but it took me months to try to work out what the V output of my Integra AVR is, and whether it would match with my existing power amp(s)... the specs said 1V - which was low for my Crown which needs 1.4V - the technicians at Onkyo/Integra responded that it could do 2V... and later testing of related AVR's showed the "family" to be capable of more than 3V...

So check definitely - but with most amps the current generation Xx800 AVR's will put out plenty of V

 

[Acerun]

Yes you can do that to the front left and right channels but not the center channel.
Clipping is not an issue unless you need higher than 4 V or may be as low as 3.5 V and/or drive amps with relatively low input impedance. It depends if you based it on Amir's definition of clipping, or not. If you do, that it would be an issue if you need more than 1.4 to 1.5 V. Amir called it clipping at above that point because SINAD started to drop more rapidly, to about 75 dB by the time it hit about 2 V. I totally disagree with that as clipping, but he's the boss (doesn't mean he's right on this but it's his privilege to say that's clipping).

Comparing the x3700h and the x8500h, Amir reported almost no degradation in SINAD up to 2v output.

 

[peng]

Comparing the x3700h and the x8500h, Amir reported almost no degradation in SINAD up to 2v output.

I think the question asked about clipping was about non preamp mode.

 

[john11]

have a chance to get my hands on a x3700h, it was not mentioned in the review but can you decouple the amp for the front channels like x3600h? or is clipping a non issue for this model?

Yes, if you know how to read a circuit board
1. pop the hood
2. take a pair of wire clippers
3. snip the cables going from the power supply to the power amp

 

[antcollinet]

Yes, if you know how to read a circuit board
1. pop the hood
2. take a pair of wire clippers
3. snip the cables going from the power supply to the power amp

Well that is pretty unlikely to end well.

 

[john11]

Well that is pretty unlikely to end well.

Unlikely, but also likely. It actualy worked out quite well.
I unhooked the preamp power supply and hooked it up to an external 10 amp smps.
Now the preamp has its own clean supply of power, the receiver sounds much better. More life, energetic, much more detail, wow !
I use the stock power supply for the power amps.
I used to have an arcam avr 600 many years ago and that had 3 transformers inside with 3 sets of rectifiers and 3 sets of smoothing capacitors, so the whole multiple power supply thing is tested and approved and used by some manufacturers, if the budget allows

 

[antcollinet]

Unlikely, but also likely. It actualy worked out quite well.
I unhooked the preamp power supply and hooked it up to an external 10 amp smps.
Now the preamp has its own clean supply of power, the receiver sounds much better. More life, energetic, much more detail, wow !
I use the stock power supply for the power amps.
I used to have an arcam avr 600 many years ago and that had 3 transformers inside with 3 sets of rectifiers and 3 sets of smoothing capacitors, so the whole multiple power supply thing is tested and approved and used by some manufacturers, if the budget allows

But that is not what you suggested to do. Your proposal was to remove the power from the power amp. Which would quite likely stop the preamp outputs working unless you also disconnected those from the power amp.

And that in a situation where the poster was just looking for a software setting to set the pre outs to pre only without driving the poweramp "like x3600h?" And then only for the front channels. Clearly they were not looking for a solution involving opening the device up, and breaking it such that none of the amp channels work, and quite possibly killing the pre channels also.


(We'll put to one side the fact that the improvements you think you hear in your modified receiver are more likely to come from cognitive biases than any actual changes to the performance of the device - after all, you were not able to compare blind - nor within the very few seconds of auditory memory).

 

[peng]

But that is not what you suggested to do. Your proposal was to remove the power from the power amp. Which would quite likely stop the preamp outputs working unless you also disconnected those from the power amp.

And that in a situation where the poster was just looking for a software setting to set the pre outs to pre only without driving the poweramp "like x3600h?" And then only for the front channels. Clearly they were not looking for a solution involving opening the device up, and breaking it such that none of the amp channels work, and quite possibly killing the pre channels also.


(We'll put to one side the fact that the improvements you think you hear in your modified receiver are more likely to come from cognitive biases than any actual changes to the performance of the device - after all, you were not able to compare blind - nor within the very few seconds of auditory memory).

I suspect this is a moot point as the OP seems to be asking about using the amp assign feature to disconnect the front left and right channels that he might have heard or read about on ASR before. If that's the case then there is no need to so any surgery on the unit, the feature is there.

 

[popej]

3. snip the cables going from the power supply to the power amp

Quite probably there are detachable connectors.

 

[antcollinet]

I suspect this is a moot point as the OP seems to be asking about using the amp assign feature to disconnect the front left and right channels that he might have heard or read about on ASR before. If that's the case then there is no need to so any surgery on the unit, the feature is there.

I think that is what my second paragraph in the post you quoted said.

 

[peng]

I think that is what my second paragraph in the post you quoted said.

You did, and I knew that, I should have directed my post to john11.

 

[Fahzz]

Having weird issue with my 3700. When I switch between functions/presets I lose the front channels. I should note that I'm using the pre-outs into an outboard amplifier. I have only two sources, one is a Roku through HDMI, and the other is music through an SMSL DAC via RCA's. What's making me nuts is that it's transient but appears to only happen when I change what I'm listening to or when I switch between presets. I did a hard reset, unplugged it, restarted it multiple times but it still occurs.

I got up this morning was working fine, but that's the way it's been happening. I'm out of warranty, and I'm just wondering whether it's worth looking into getting it repaired locally.

Has anyone else had similar difficulties? Any opinions about whether it's worth the hassle for repairs? Thanks.

 

[peng]

Having weird issue with my 3700. When I switch between functions/presets I lose the front channels. I should note that I'm using the pre-outs into an outboard amplifier. I have only two sources, one is a Roku through HDMI, and the other is music through an SMSL DAC via RCA's. What's making me nuts is that it's transient but appears to only happen when I change what I'm listening to or when I switch between presets. I did a hard reset, unplugged it, restarted it multiple times but it still occurs.

I got up this morning was working fine, but that's the way it's been happening. I'm out of warranty, and I'm just wondering whether it's worth looking into getting it repaired locally.

Has anyone else had similar difficulties? Any opinions about whether it's worth the hassle for repairs? Thanks.

Are you using the amp assign to diconnect the build in amps for FL and FR?

 

[antcollinet]

Having weird issue with my 3700. When I switch between functions/presets I lose the front channels. I should note that I'm using the pre-outs into an outboard amplifier. I have only two sources, one is a Roku through HDMI, and the other is music through an SMSL DAC via RCA's. What's making me nuts is that it's transient but appears to only happen when I change what I'm listening to or when I switch between presets. I did a hard reset, unplugged it, restarted it multiple times but it still occurs.

I got up this morning was working fine, but that's the way it's been happening. I'm out of warranty, and I'm just wondering whether it's worth looking into getting it repaired locally.

Has anyone else had similar difficulties? Any opinions about whether it's worth the hassle for repairs? Thanks.

I have the 3800. There are two audio presets and lots of functions are fixed by the preset - check that the pre-out assign functions are not getting turned off when you change preset.

 

[Fahzz]

Are you using the amp assign to diconnect the build in amps for FL and FR?

Yes. Pre out assigned for both front speakers set to small. This unit has been working fine for a couple of years. This problem started a couple of weeks ago.