Denon AVR-X3500H AVR Review

[Hipster Doofus]

Stereo would be the correct mode for 2.0/2.1

Are you trying to bypass the DAC?

Thank you for the help…Yes trying to use the gustard dac and not the Denon internal dac. I was hoping if I input the gustard signal to any of the inputs(dvd, cd, etc,,,) that I would be getting the better signal and the mqa stuff.
regards

 

[bluesky636]

Thank you for the help…Yes trying to use the gustard dac and not the Denon internal dac. I was hoping if I input the gustard signal to any of the inputs(dvd, cd, etc,,,) that I would be getting the better signal and the mqa stuff.
regards

You would need to plug the analog outputs of the DAC into the appropriate analog input of the 3500. If you are using Audyssey, the signal is gonna be digitized anyway, so why go through multiple D/A and A/D conversions?

 

[Hipster Doofus]

You would need to plug the analog outputs of the DAC into the appropriate analog input of the 3500. If you are using Audyssey, the signal is gonna be digitized anyway, so why go through multiple D/A and A/D conversions?

Thank you , as mentioned a retired chef, so some of this stuff spins my head….my hope is the get the features of parametric eq in my third system and not lose the capabilities of the improved dac.

To use the audyssey app from the couch and play with the eq, short cutting the room eq wizard process (REW) and let the Denon be my measuring device. Thereby at least get the illusion of doing things correctly. Basically my Tekton speakers have always sound a little off compare to my other systems. B&W 801 matrix, and 1960 EMI DLS-1 , which are both very pleasing to the ear.

thank for your patience

 

[bluesky636]

Thank you , as mentioned a retired chef, so some of this stuff spins my head….my hope is the get the features of parametric eq in my third system and not lose the capabilities of the improved dac.

To use the audyssey app from the couch and play with the eq, short cutting the room eq wizard process (REW) and let the Denon be my measuring device. Thereby at least get the illusion of doing things correctly. Basically my Tekton speakers have always sound a little off compare to my other systems. B&W 801 matrix, and 1960 EMI DLS-1 , which are both very pleasing to the ear.

thank for your patience

Audyssey is not a parametric EQ nor does it have anything to do with REW which is an entirely separate process.

 

[Hipster Doofus]

Audyssey is not a parametric EQ nor does it have anything to do with REW which is an entirely separate process.

Thanks you

I thought the app,which I have, let me drag the feq. response curve up and down after running the audyssey room correction …so I think maybe my terminology is off. But will it still let me equalizer and get the good dac signal.

 

[bluesky636]

Thanks you

I thought the app,which I have, let me drag the feq. response curve up and down after running the audyssey room correction …so I think maybe my terminology is off. But will it still let me equalizer and get the good dac signal.

Audyssey is a room frequency response correction process. It has nothing to do with DAC performance.

 

[Hipster Doofus]

Stereo would be the correct mode for 2.0/2.1

Are you trying to bypass the DAC?

Thanks I am now clear on using stereo if I want to enable the Audyssey software.
Yes , I am trying to bypass the Denon dac …
and GET my good dac performance …
so Is that accomplished by inputing my dac as an input. Will the Denon somehow override my dac in any way?

happy weekend

 

[bluesky636]

Thanks I am now clear on using stereo if I want to enable the Audyssey software.
Yes , I am trying to bypass the Denon dac …
and GET my good dac performance …
so Is that accomplished by inputing my dac as an input. Will the Denon somehow override my dac in any way?

happy weekend

I have already told you that:

1. You must run the analog output of the DAC into the appropriate analog input on the 3500, and

2. Audyssey will redigitize the analog signal in order to perform processing on the signal.

 

[Hipster Doofus]

Thank you to all

 

[Chromatischism]

To my knowledge, there is no way to output a digital stream from an AVR. It's almost always analog (or post-DAC).

 

[bluesky636]

To my knowledge, there is no way to output a digital stream from an AVR. It's almost always analog (or post-DAC).

Audyssey operates in the digital domain. If a digital signal (HDMI, S/PDIF coax or optical) is input to the AVR, Audyssey will process it directly. The processed signal will then go through a D/A conversion by the AVR for output to the speakers. If a 2 channel analog signal is input to the AVR, the AVR will do an A/D conversion and send the signal on to Audyssey for processing. The processed signal will then go through a D/A conversion for output to the speakers. Analog multichannel audio is not converted to digital and therefore does not undergo Audyssey processing. Multichannel PCM audio is processed by Audyssey.

 

[Chromatischism]

Audyssey operates in the digital domain. If a digital signal (HDMI, S/PDIF coax or optical) is input to the AVR, Audyssey will process it directly. The processed signal will then go through a D/A conversion by the AVR for output to the speakers. If a 2 channel analog signal is input to the AVR, the AVR will do an A/D conversion and send the signal on to Audyssey for processing. The processed signal will then go through a D/A conversion for output to the speakers. Analog multichannel audio is not converted to digital and therefore does not undergo Audyssey processing. Multichannel PCM audio is processed by Audyssey.

The point I'm making is that these AVRs do not have digital outputs. You would have to start there to have a chance of using it for DSP and still bypassing the DAC. But it still doesn't make sense, because of the way Audyssey works.

I personally do not think it's worth the trouble, but if it is to be done, you need to think of the AVR as where all of the processing will be done. Like you said, you then output to speakers. That means your DAC needs to be upstream of the AVR, feeding it analog inputs. However there will be an additional A/D and D/A cycle done.

 

[bluesky636]

That means your DAC needs to be upstream of the AVR, feeding it analog inputs.

Well obviously. I've already addressed that in my earlier responses to the OP.

 

[Smitty2k1]

Do we know why the DAC performance of the x3500h is so much worse than the x3600h and x3700h? Considering buying a used x3400h, primarily to upgrade to Audyssey XT32 using external amp for my front L/R. Should I expect the DAC performance of the x3400h to be closer to the x3500h than the much better performing x3600h and x3700h?

 

[Bear123]

Do we know why the DAC performance of the x3500h is so much worse than the x3600h and x3700h? Considering buying a used x3400h, primarily to upgrade to Audyssey XT32 using external amp for my front L/R. Should I expect the DAC performance of the x3400h to be closer to the x3500h than the much better performing x3600h and x3700h?

I believe that, unless you listen above reference level, the DAC performance will be audibly the same as the 3600, 3700, or really any other modern, competently designed DAC. The 3400's DAC SINAD drops when delivering a very high voltage from the pre-out, so it also depends on which external amp you are using. If your amp can be driven to your normal listening level with around 1.5Volts or less, there is basically no measurable or audible difference in the DAC performance from the 3400 vs 36/3700. Furthermore, even if you were to use more than 1.5 volts which will measurably degrade SINAD, I doubt anyone would hear a difference in real life. There are lots of folks with old audiophile $10,000+ amps with 80 dB SINAD who think they sound great. IMO, the importance of ultra high SINAD is dramatically over exaggerated.

I doubt many/any could tell the difference(outside of their sighted imagination) between 80 dB SINAD vs 120 in normal, real use.

 

[Smitty2k1]

I believe that, unless you listen above reference level, the DAC performance will be audibly the same as the 3600, 3700, or really any other modern, competently designed DAC. The 3400's DAC SINAD drops when delivering a very high voltage from the pre-out, so it also depends on which external amp you are using. If your amp can be driven to your normal listening level with around 1.5Volts or less, there is basically no measurable or audible difference in the DAC performance from the 3400 vs 36/3700. Furthermore, even if you were to use more than 1.5 volts which will measurably degrade SINAD, I doubt anyone would hear a difference in real life. There are lots of folks with old audiophile $10,000+ amps with 80 dB SINAD who think they sound great. IMO, the importance of ultra high SINAD is dramatically over exaggerated.

I doubt many/any could tell the difference(outside of their sighted imagination) between 80 dB SINAD vs 120 in normal, real use.

Thanks, great to hear! Using an Ncore NC252MP based amp if that helps. Modern AVRs are just so much more user-friendly than a series of separates when anything HDMI or multichannel gets introduced. Right now I *could* use the optical out from my TV and I *currently* only have a 2.1 system, but it's very realistic that in the future I'll add a center channel for 3.1 and a PC or XBOX/PS for gaming, at which point HDMI becomes a factor. Something like a Minidsp Flex would be perfect *now* but as soon as I do either one of those other things I feel I'd be back in the market for an AVR.

 

[Chromatischism]

I believe that, unless you listen above reference level, the DAC performance will be audibly the same as the 3600, 3700, or really any other modern, competently designed DAC. The 3400's DAC SINAD drops when delivering a very high voltage from the pre-out, so it also depends on which external amp you are using. If your amp can be driven to your normal listening level with around 1.5Volts or less, there is basically no measurable or audible difference in the DAC performance from the 3400 vs 36/3700. Furthermore, even if you were to use more than 1.5 volts which will measurably degrade SINAD, I doubt anyone would hear a difference in real life. There are lots of folks with old audiophile $10,000+ amps with 80 dB SINAD who think they sound great. IMO, the importance of ultra high SINAD is dramatically over exaggerated.

I doubt many/any could tell the difference(outside of their sighted imagination) between 80 dB SINAD vs 120 in normal, real use.

I would generally agree but it may depend on the spectrum. So if there's a problem at 3 kHz that drags the SINAD down to 80, and the rest of the spectrum is good, it may become audible in content that hits in the range of 3 kHz when critically listening.

 

[tlin]

Audyssey operates in the digital domain. If a digital signal (HDMI, S/PDIF coax or optical) is input to the AVR, Audyssey will process it directly. The processed signal will then go through a D/A conversion by the AVR for output to the speakers. If a 2 channel analog signal is input to the AVR, the AVR will do an A/D conversion and send the signal on to Audyssey for processing. The processed signal will then go through a D/A conversion for output to the speakers. Analog multichannel audio is not converted to digital and therefore does not undergo Audyssey processing. Multichannel PCM audio is processed by Audyssey.

Is the same true for an analog input known to be an analog source (e.g. the phono stereo pair)? The goal being to have an analog feed do nothing but be sent directly to the stereo amps.

I was also hoping/trying to use a better external DAC with my AVR for music-only listening. Hoping I haven't been wasting my time/$ - thank you in advance.

 

[Chromatischism]

Is the same true for an analog input known to be an analog source (e.g. the phono stereo pair)? The goal being to have an analog feed do nothing but be sent directly to the stereo amps.

I was also hoping/trying to use a better external DAC with my AVR for music-only listening. Hoping I haven't been wasting my time/$ - thank you in advance.

According to Amir's review, analog is not digitized.

However, ALL inputs have to be digitized to use Room EQ. But the gain is worth it over any perceived (or otherwise) loss.

 

[Smitty2k1]

Has anyone gotten the 3.5mm remote jacks to work on this? Using the same USB powered IR receiver with 3.5mm mono jack I used on my 2018 Marantz AVR does NOT work. Tried a different model and it also does not work. Instead I have to use the IR blasters to the front IR receiver on the unit.