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Denon AVR-S670H

What about this one?


If you must get a new AVR, the Onkyo that is on sale you linked earlier seems to be the best deal.

What are you trying to gain if you already like the AVR-590 and if it has all the features you need?
 
If you must get a new AVR, the Onkyo that is on sale you linked earlier seems to be the best deal.

What are you trying to gain if you already like the AVR-590 and if it has all the features you need?

I plan on upgrading my television (75" TCL QM7 or QM851G). My existing TV is 55-in 1080p.

Existing AVR will not pass thru 4K content.

Existing AVR also does not have eARC, so the only way I could "pipe" sound to my existing AVR (Even with a newer upgraded TV) would be optical. With optical I wouldn't be able to get Dolby digital Plus (DDD+).

So, the ONLY option (I see)in order to have an upgrade to television and get 4K and DDD+ is to upgrade AVR.

I do understand that Onkyo is a very good brand name. I'm a creature of habit. I have had Denon for the last 17 years. I prefer Denon, but if the numbers (price and specifications) makes sense with Onkyo, I might go with the Onkyo. Still prefer Denon.

The epicenter of all of this is that I want a bigger TV. If the TV that I had right now (Even though it's a 1080p) 75 in, I wouldn't be posting on this thread.
 
I plan on upgrading my television (75" TCL QM7 or QM851G). My existing TV is 55-in 1080p.

Existing AVR will not pass thru 4K content.

Existing AVR also does not have eARC, so the only way I could "pipe" sound to my existing AVR (Even with a newer upgraded TV) would be optical. With optical I wouldn't be able to get Dolby digital Plus (DDD+).

So, the ONLY option (I see)in order to have an upgrade to television and get 4K and DDD+ is to upgrade AVR.

I do understand that Onkyo is a very good brand name. I'm a creature of habit. I have had Denon for the last 17 years. I prefer Denon, but if the numbers (price and specifications) makes sense with Onkyo, I might go with the Onkyo. Still prefer Denon.

The epicenter of all of this is that I want a bigger TV. If the TV that I had right now (Even though it's a 1080p) 75 in, I wouldn't be posting on this thread.

Okay then, but I thought you only needed 5 channels, so would the AVR-S570BT do the job? If it does then it will save you a few hundred dollars.
In terms of sound quality and power output, they won't make a difference whether you stay with the 590 you have now, or the S970H. It really is the feature set that are different between them.
 
Okay then, but I thought you only needed 5 channels, so would the AVR-S570BT do the job? If it does then it will save you a few hundred dollars.
In terms of sound quality and power output, they won't make a difference whether you stay with the 590 you have now, or the S970H. It really is the feature set that are different between them.

The AVR-S570BT 70 w/ch. My 590 is 75w/ch. The S970H is 90w/ch.

Earlier in this conversation, you can see the specifications for my speakers. They are 40 nominal with 88 DB of sensitivity. "Power hungry".

Since my speakers are "power hungry", I figured it might be in my best interest to upgrade for higher wattage.

The reason I'm going with a 7ch is because I could not find a 5ch that has more than 75/ch.

If I could find a brand name(preferably Denon)5ch AVR that was at least 90w/ch, I would be all over that.
 
The AVR-S570BT 70 w/ch. My 590 is 75w/ch. The S970H is 90w/ch.

Earlier in this conversation, you can see the specifications for my speakers. They are 40 nominal with 88 DB of sensitivity. "Power hungry".

Since my speakers are "power hungry", I figured it might be in my best interest to upgrade for higher wattage.

The reason I'm going with a 7ch is because I could not find a 5ch that has more than 75/ch.

If I could find a brand name(preferably Denon)5ch AVR that was at least 90w/ch, I would be all over that.

All those things you cited above are correct, but you last sentence is false, due to your misunderstanding of how things work in terms of "W" vs sound pressure level, that is, it is not a linear relationship, and you need a lot more "W" to make a significant difference in terms of the "loudness" you will perceive.

It is important to understand that in practical terms, 2 times the power output = only 3 dB difference in sound pressure level and in most cases, it is generally recognized that one needs to have at least 6 dB, or up to 10 dB higher spl to perceive "twice" as loud.

In terms "how loud" sound pressure level, we use the log scale because it is not a linear relationship.

3 dB = 2 times
1 dB = 1.258 times
-3 dB = 0.5 times

So, the S970H, 90 W, compared to the S570BT's 70 W, the ration is about 1.28, that will give you just 1.07 dB more in terms of sound pressure level

Between the two AVR, for you to hear the same sound pressure level, the difference is just 1 in the volume dial. That is, all else being the same, with the S570BT, if you set the volume to -20, with the S970H, you only need to turn it to -19. Practically no difference.

If you want to play with this, use an online calculator such as the following:

 
All those things you cited above are correct, but you last sentence is false, due to your misunderstanding of how things work in terms of "W" vs sound pressure level, that is, it is not a linear relationship, and you need a lot more "W" to make a significant difference in terms of the "loudness" you will perceive.

It is important to understand that in practical terms, 2 times the power output = only 3 dB difference in sound pressure level and in most cases, it is generally recognized that one needs to have at least 6 dB, or up to 10 dB higher spl to perceive "twice" as loud.

In terms "how loud" sound pressure level, we use the log scale because it is not a linear relationship.

3 dB = 2 times
1 dB = 1.258 times
-3 dB = 0.5 times

So, the S970H, 90 W, compared to the S570BT's 70 W, the ration is about 1.28, that will give you just 1.07 dB more in terms of sound pressure level

Between the two AVR, for you to hear the same sound pressure level, the difference is just 1 in the volume dial. That is, all else being the same, with the S570BT, if you set the volume to -20, with the S970H, you only need to turn it to -19. Practically no difference.

If you want to play with this, use an online calculator such as the following:


You just taught me something.

Based on this, it looks like my best bet might be AVR-S670. Looks like the only way I would get a AVR-S570BT, would be used or refurbished.

Based on what you are stating, it looks like the only way I would hear a real difference in sound is if I spent $$$$$ on a super high wattage receiver.
 
Then again the calibrated volume is more for movie soundtracks made with that standard in mind....music is all over the place. I'd think your avr is likely fine from your description, tho, you seem to have clean playback at elevated levels. A different avr might have different feature set and maybe a slightly more powerful amp section, your choice....but complimenting? A fan might be a good idea, especially if you have it stuffed in a cabinet or something. Noctua makes some good ones or coolerguys.com as well.

What do you think about these?

 
You just taught me something.

Based on this, it looks like my best bet might be AVR-S670. Looks like the only way I would get a AVR-S570BT, would be used or refurbished.

Based on what you are stating, it looks like the only way I would hear a real difference in sound is if I spent $$$$$ on a super high wattage receiver.

You just taught me something.

Based on this, it looks like my best bet might be AVR-S670. Looks like the only way I would get a AVR-S570BT, would be used or refurbished.

Based on what you are stating, it looks like the only way I would hear a real difference in sound is if I spent $$$$$ on a super high wattage receiver.
True to a point only because then your D300 series speakers will become the weak link.

As it is now, it is easier to get better sound quality by using a good subwoofer and room correction software such as Audyssey XT32 and Dirac Live (preferred).
 
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True to a point only because then your D300 series speakers will become the weak link.

As it us now, it is easier to get better sound quality by using a good subwoofer and room correction soffware such as Audyssey XT32 and Dirac Live (preferred).

I have an SVS 12" ported subwoofer. LFE crossed over at 120 hz. Left, right, and center speakers are crossed over at 80 hz. Surround speakers crossed over at 110 hz.

Does Denon offer Dirac? Is Dirac more user friendly?
 
I would go with a refurb Onkyo TX-NR7100 for the same price over the new NR6100 as it comes with Dirac Live, which will make the biggest difference the quality of your audio system over really anything else.
 
True to a point only because then your D300 series speakers will become the weak link.

As it us now, it is easier to get better sound quality by using a good subwoofer and room correction soffware such as Audyssey XT32 and Dirac Live (preferred).

I'm very happy with these speakers.
I think they sound really good. I mean, when I first installed them, I was just streaming Spotify. It's lossy (as far as I understand). Normally listening to heavy metal in rock. But in order to measure the true potential of my setup, I was playing Sade and Fleetwood Mac. There were some songs from Fleetwood Mac's greatest hits that I can hear instruments that I've never heard before in the song. This was on Spotify (lossey).

Rumor Mill for many years has been at Spotify will eventually go lossless. I would have switched to Tidal a long time ago if I wasn't on the family plan with other people.
 
This place rocks. Why so inexpensive I wonder.

Most of the avrs there are refurbs (largely returns to retailers that are sent back to Denon, how much "refurbing" they get isn't perhaps what people assume). Terms of sale are a bit different, read them carefully. I've bought a few things from them but didn't have the greatest refurb experience (at the time went thru two refurbs on a 4520 that needed to be returned and on the third one I simply paid a bit more for a new unit).
 
In that I don't know what that means.

If you're talking about I was wanting a receiver that would "compliment" my speakers..

"Compliment" another way of saying I want I receiver that's an asset (vs a liability) to my system. I receiver that goes good with, If not "betters" my setup.

It's like if you're dating someone and they say that you two "compliment" each other. You got each other's back. It means you're equals. It means you help each other.
 
Most of the avrs there are refurbs (largely returns to retailers that are sent back to Denon, how much "refurbing" they get isn't perhaps what people assume). Terms of sale are a bit different, read them carefully. I've bought a few things from them but didn't have the greatest refurb experience (at the time went thru two refurbs on a 4520 that needed to be returned and on the third one I simply paid a bit more for a new unit).
One part of me wants to roll the dice with a refurb and the other part of me wants to go with a new one. I guess there's pros and cons to both.

I didn't read the specifics. Is the warranty on a refurb the same as a brand new one?
 
Most of the avrs there are refurbs (largely returns to retailers that are sent back to Denon, how much "refurbing" they get isn't perhaps what people assume). Terms of sale are a bit different, read them carefully. I've bought a few things from them but didn't have the greatest refurb experience (at the time went thru two refurbs on a 4520 that needed to be returned and on the third one I simply paid a bit more for a new unit).

I have one, not as quiet as I had hoped but pretty much set and forget and its aesthetic is better than plain fans.....I didn't suggest it due price.
To me that's not a horrible price to pay to make sure my equipment stays cool. Ranging from $50 to $130 depending on the size. I would probably get the one that blows the most air. Which one did you get?

I guess if the noise gets on my nerves, I can always return it to Amazon
 
I understand the pain to have to use a 9 channel amp and only use 5, but it is a sad reality that while manufacturers do still offer 5 channels AVRs they don't offer them with much output current capability. It is hard to find the specs for those speakers, if you can believe what's on Audioholic.com:

Their impedance dip to 3.6 ohms, nominal is only 4 ohms and sensitivity is in the mid 80's. So unless you listen to something like 70 dB average 90 dB peak, sitting from 15 feet, any of those still available 5.1 or 7.1 AVRs won't be able to drive your speakers adequately. Also, in order to have pre-out, that allows you to us external power amps should you ever need to, they are simply not found in 5.1 AVRs. Even the 7 channel AVR-X1800H, it only has pre outs for the front left and right channels and are available in the North American version, not the European version.

So, again, if you must stick with 5.1 or 7.1 channel AVRs, you can go with the following:

Denon S670H
Yamaha RX-V4A

But go easy on the volume, and invest $20 on an USB fan to make sure the unit won't overheat when playing certain 5.1 movie contents. Still, I believe most of us who have been in this hobby for a long time, will likely suggest something like the slightly higher models such as the AVR-X3800H, Yamaha RX-A4A, or comparable Pioneee, Onkyo models, and just pretend they are 5 channels (again, I know it would seem like overkill, but if you like your 4 ohm Wharfedale that has dips to 3.2 ohms and have relatively low sensitivity, then you have to understand they are "power hungry", relatively speaking. That's all I can say..

Wharfedale D310 2-way bookshelf speaker​

  • Sensitivity (2.83v @ 1m): 86dB
  • Nominal Impedance: 4Ω (minimum 3.6 Ω)
  • Frequency Response (+/-3dB): 65Hz ~ 20kHz
  • Dimensions (H x W x D): 26.5 x 15.5 x 22.8 cm
  • Weight: 8.8 lbs

Wharfedale D320 2-way bookshelf speaker​

  • Sensitivity (2.83v @ 1m): 87dB
  • Nominal Impedance: 4Ω (minimum 3.8 Ω)
  • Frequency Response (+/-3dB): 56Hz ~ 20kHz
  • Dimensions (H x W x D): 32.0 x 18.0 x 27.8 cm
  • Weight: 13.2 lbs

Wharfedale D330 2.5-way floor-standing speaker​

  • Sensitivity (2.83v @ 1m): 88dB
  • Nominal Impedance: 4Ω (minimum 4.1 Ω)
  • Frequency Response (+/-3dB): 40Hz ~ 20kHz
  • Dimensions (H x W x D): 96.5 x 20.0 x 33.8 cm
  • Weight: 40.1 lbs

Wharfedale D300C 2-way center-channel speaker​

  • Sensitivity (2.83v @ 1m): 89dB
  • Nominal Impedance: 4Ω (minimum 3.8 Ω)
  • Frequency Response (+/-3dB): 65Hz ~ 20kHz
  • Dimensions (H x W x D): 19.0 x 51.0 x 23.2 cm
  • Weight: 17.6 lbs



These are what I have for my surrounds. The center channel and the two floor standing speakers listed above what I have for the front.

 
To me that's not a horrible price to pay to make sure my equipment stays cool. Ranging from $50 to $130 depending on the size. I would probably get the one that blows the most air. Which one did you get?

I guess if the noise gets on my nerves, I can always return it to Amazon
I have the T8 (rear exhaust). I use it at a fairly low fan setting with the thermostat, only hear it when everything else is very quiet.
 
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