Dan Clark Audio AEON RT Review (closed headphone)

[Jimbob54]

With the advice @Dan Clark gave me, I'm looking into getting an amp for the headphones. I was looking at iFi ZEN CAN but I'm uncertain due to impedance mismatch. From what I gathered, the ZEN CAN is rated for 16ohm minimum output impedance. I heard about the 8x rule, but I'm starting to think this does not apply to AEON. I even managed to find a comparison of the source impedance impact on the AEON RT and it seems safe.

Do you think that amp is ok or should I look into something else such as JDS Atom?

I think you are conflating output impedance with headphone impedance. I couldn't find specs on the Zen can output impedance but im guessing you mean it's not recommended for headphones below 16 ohm impedance. That alone might scupper the Zen can as an option.

Lots of modern headphone amps have output impedance of only 1 ohm or so and if that's the case here then impedance mismatch wouldn't be an issue.

 

[Racheski]

I think you are conflating output impedance with headphone impedance. I couldn't find specs on the Zen can output impedance but im guessing you mean it's not recommended for headphones below 16 ohm impedance. That alone might scupper the Zen can as an option.

Lots of modern headphone amps have output impedance of only 1 ohm or so and if that's the case here then impedance mismatch wouldn't be an issue.

So obnoxious when the manufacturer doesn't publish the HP output impedance. From Head-Fi I found this:
Zen Can Reviews

So I think this means 2.4 ohms(BAL)/1 ohm (SE)?

 

[Jimbob54]

So obnoxious when the manufacturer doesn't publish the HP output impedance. From Head-Fi I found this:
Zen Can Reviews
View attachment 120231

So I think this means 2.4 ohms(BAL)/1 ohm (SE)?

I think that's input impedance.

 

[HEPBO3AH]

I think you are conflating output impedance with headphone impedance. I couldn't find specs on the Zen can output impedance but im guessing you mean it's not recommended for headphones below 16 ohm impedance. That alone might scupper the Zen can as an option.

Lots of modern headphone amps have output impedance of only 1 ohm or so and if that's the case here then impedance mismatch wouldn't be an issue.

I reached out to them for the information.
The 16 Ohm came from a FAQ page on their website which does not specify which product it applies to.

On second read I'm noticing

while the headphone itself sees a source impedance of less than 1 Ohm

but I'll wait for them to confirm

 

[Jimbob54]

I reached out to them for the information.
The 16 Ohm came from a FAQ page on their website which does not specify which product it applies to.

On second read I'm noticing

but I'll wait for them to confirm

Yes, 16 ohm refers to the load impedance. The headphones. The Aeons are what, 12 ohm, so the bass distortion from the amp increases. Whether that's audible to you during music is a different question.

 

[Fish17]

You could look into a dynamic closed back, if you're keen on staying within the realm of closed backs, such as the Drop X Beyerdynamic DT177X Go. Far easier to find exceptional open backs than closed backs though.

Yeah I still like the idea of closed back as I plan on mostly using them for travel and at work.

I’ll have to look into the DT177X.

 

[edahl]

I took it out as it attenuates too much of the high frequencies and likely causes some slight comb filtering as well.

What do you mean by comb filtering here?

 

[Fish17]

It could possibly be sensitivity to the front volume sealing pressure that these and other planars use. I cannot use the dan clark headphones without pain for this very reason. (which is a shame because the form factor and weight is class leading) I have also encountered this on audeze lcd type headphones as well. I had to add vents under the pads to be able to wear those. You can test this by just wearing them without music and see if the same thing happens, you might also want to test very low volume music as well.

This is really interesting - but also very dissapointing to hear!

I've experienced exactly the same sensation you've described when using my Audeze LCD-2. I'd advise extreme caution with continuing to use your headphones as I believe this issue is what caused or triggered my tinnitus, which is unfortunately irreversible.

From my reserach into the matter, it seems like Planars exert more pressure on the ear drums than dynamic drivers do. This is further exacerbated by the tight seal formed by headphones like the Aeon and the LCD series.

I'm really curious to know what Dan Clark has to say on the matter (please share if he gets back to you!) - or if you find any solutions that alleviate the issue, otherwise I might have to give the Aeons a miss even though I was really looking forward to them

Have either of you 2 tried the Dan Clark Ether design I wonder if that would alleviate the pressure issues. I image the pads allow for better venting, although they look similar to the LCD that both of you have.

Are there any other closed back design headphones that you have had success with without mods?

 

[Maes Hughes]

Have either of you 2 tried the Dan Clark Ether design I wonder if that would alleviate the pressure issues. I image the pads allow for better venting, although they look similar to the LCD that both of you have.

Are there any other closed back design headphones that you have had success with without mods?

I had the same issue with the Ether and I had to make a vented mounting bracket (that attached to the main body of the headphone and you attach the pads to) for the LCD series to make it work. The LCD didn't seem to mind being venting in terms of overall frequency response. Unfortunately, the only closed backs I have had real success with were the ZMF Atticus and Eikon likely because they are partially open due to the back venting (I like the headphones, but they are in a different price bracket and aren't practical in most situations you would want a closed back). When I could have drivers touch my ears, I had no issue with the Beyer closed backs in terms of seal pressure either (needed a lot of eq for me though). If you don't mind ears touching drivers, the Shure 1540 could be an interesting candidate due to the pads it uses.

Most closed back dynamics in general will have much less pressure on the ear drum due to the nature of how the driver designs are implemented. Anything that you can easily adjust the clamp force of the headphone to lower the pressure might be of interest as well. Overall, semi open designs that are mostly closed would natural picks to look at along with closed back dynamics that use breathable fabric pads.

 

[deepblue]

Have either of you 2 tried the Dan Clark Ether design I wonder if that would alleviate the pressure issues. I image the pads allow for better venting, although they look similar to the LCD that both of you have.

Are there any other closed back design headphones that you have had success with without mods?

I have tried the Ether but not long enough to comment on this issue in particular. It's worth mentioning that the LCD-2 that originally presented this issue and imparted the tinnitus were open backs.

As @Maes Hughes mentioned, I haven't really come across the same problem with dynamic closed backs (or open backs for that matter). For example, I've used the now discontinued NAD Viso HP50 extensively and never run into the same sensation of excessive pressure on the ear drum.

interestingly, I ran into the very same issue - only even more present with the Etymotic ER2XR. I suspect the very tight seal is to blame here.

Im still in the process of trying to find a good high end closed back headphones to take to work. Will hopefully be auditioning the Neumann NDH20 soon, which supposedly delivers a sound signature close to the typical rich planar sound - although comfort seems to be an issue.

 

[Fish17]

I had the same issue with the Ether and I had to make a vented mounting bracket (that attached to the main body of the headphone and you attach the pads to) for the LCD series to make it work. The LCD didn't seem to mind being venting in terms of overall frequency response. Unfortunately, the only closed backs I have had real success with were the ZMF Atticus and Eikon likely because they are partially open due to the back venting (I like the headphones, but they are in a different price bracket and aren't practical in most situations you would want a closed back). When I could have drivers touch my ears, I had no issue with the Beyer closed backs in terms of seal pressure either (needed a lot of eq for me though). If you don't mind ears touching drivers, the Shure 1540 could be an interesting candidate due to the pads it uses.

Most closed back dynamics in general will have much less pressure on the ear drum due to the nature of how the driver designs are implemented. Anything that you can easily adjust the clamp force of the headphone to lower the pressure might be of interest as well. Overall, semi open designs that are mostly closed would natural picks to look at along with closed back dynamics that use breathable fabric pads.

Fortunately the seller @WLVCA is going to accept my return. He's been very understanding, can't sing his praises enough!

I'm looking into the Argon T60RPs which are partially vented, going to try the regular T60RPs to confirm this before I wait the 16+ weeks.

 

[Fish17]

I have tried the Ether but not long enough to comment on this issue in particular. It's worth mentioning that the LCD-2 that originally presented this issue and imparted the tinnitus were open backs.

As @Maes Hughes mentioned, I haven't really come across the same problem with dynamic closed backs (or open backs for that matter). For example, I've used the now discontinued NAD Viso HP50 extensively and never run into the same sensation of excessive pressure on the ear drum.

interestingly, I ran into the very same issue - only even more present with the Etymotic ER2XR. I suspect the very tight seal is to blame here.

Im still in the process of trying to find a good high end closed back headphones to take to work. Will hopefully be auditioning the Neumann NDH20 soon, which supposedly delivers a sound signature close to the typical rich planar sound - although comfort seems to be an issue.

Have you looked into the Argon T60RPs? They are partially vented but lead times are insane as they are modded. Z review and DMS sing it's praises for a budget headphone (<$400).

Before placing an order I plan on trying out a regular T60RP to check if pressure is an issue.

I'd definitely be interested to hear how the Neumann NDH20 do, please reply hear once you audition them. That NAD Viso HP50 is interesting as well, only $200 right now, why not those for work?

I'm also on the same quest for a good high end closed back headphones to take to work so please keep me posted with your progress! The closed back options are even fewer due to this pressure issue.

 

[deepblue]

Have you looked into the Argon T60RPs? They are partially vented but lead times are insane as they are modded. Z review and DMS sing it's praises for a budget headphone (<$400).

Before placing an order I plan on trying out a regular T60RP to check if pressure is an issue.

I'd definitely be interested to hear how the Neumann NDH20 do, please reply hear once you audition them. That NAD Viso HP50 is interesting as well, only $200 right now, why not those for work?

I'm also on the same quest for a good high end closed back headphones to take to work so please keep me posted with your progress! The closed back options are even fewer due to this pressure issue.

I should state my signature preferences as background to any of my opinions - I like relaxed, neutral to warm sound signatures, with good sub-bass extension and tamed highs - as I'm very sensitive to overly bright/sibilant headphones (looking at you BeyerDynamic and Grado). Some of my favourite headphones include the Audeze LCD-2+, Sennheiser HD600/650/6XX, the Focal Elears, STAX L-series and the Hifiman HE1000.

I haven't heard the T60RP Argons - but I have had heard the T60RP standard version, which sounds great. I slightly preferred the sound of the Fostex TH610 - however both Fostex headphones aren't true closed backs, they're semi-closed (which could certainly release the pressure built up in the cups and rememdy our issue) but that means it also leaks sound, which makes them unviable in a quiet office. If not for that one flaw, I would have locked in the TH610.

Yesterday, I was able to test out the Neumann NDH20, the BeyerDynamic DT1770 Pro, the Austrian Audio HiX55 and the AKG K361 and K371 .

Neumann NDH20
Great build quality, average comfort, excellent isolation, entirely too dark, verging on muddy. Surprised at people describing them as neutral and detailed.

BeyerDynamic DT1770 Pro
Surprisingly pleased with these, not nearly as harsh in the treble as other Beyers I've tried, excellent build quality and comfort - but can still get a bit hot in the treble and the mids are VERY in your face. Very curious as to how the Drop version compares as they seem to have specifically addressed these issues, however hestitant to buy without auditioning.

Austrian Audio HiX55
Really enjoyed everything about these, from the build, to the comfort, the isolation, to almost all of the sound signature - except for the highs, probably the hottest in the highs of all the headphones I auditioned on the day. I know ASR is very big on EQing - but its not a route I want to pursue with my headphones at this stage.

AKG K361 and K371
This continues a phenomenon that I've seen in the closed-back headphone space, where budget tier headphones provide a more enjoyable experience than their higher end counterparts. These provided excellent comfort and isolation, rich but non fatiguing sound signature, close to neutral but leaning warm - with a few forgivable hot spots in the treble. The K361 actually sounds a bit better than the K371, however the latter is built much better. That said, they just don't bring the detail retrieval or the refinement of the more expensive closed backs. Hopefully AKG build on what they have here.

My current closed back - NAD Viso HP50
A great deal at current prices and fits my aforementioned sound signature preference quite well - but it tames down the highs a bit too much, even for my tastes. Isolation is good - but comfort is only average as the earcups are rather shallow and the headband can cause pain after a few hours.

So at least for now, the hunt for a high end closed back continues! Would love to be able to audition the Aeon X Closed for a week to see if it causes the same issue as other planars did - but can't really see an opportunity for doing so. I still think the Aeon RT/X represents tremendous value at its current price - but people should be weary of the effects that planars, especially closed back planars can have on your hearing.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

but people should be weary of the effects that planars, especially closed back planars can have on your hearing.

Could you elaborate, please? I didn´t find in the thread what effects you are referring to.

 

[deepblue]

Could you elaborate, please? I didn´t find in the thread what effects you are referring to.

Planar magnetic headphones seem to exert more pressure on the ear drum than dynamic driver headphones, especially when there's a tight seal created by the pads and/or if they're closed backs.

In certain people, myself included, it has led to tinnitus, which is irreversible hearing damage. If you search for 'Planar magnetic headphones tinnitus', you'll find a few threads on it.

Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any scientific validation of the exact cause - so the explanations we have are merely hypotheses.

As mentioned earlier, it doesn't seem to effect most people - but if you start to feel pain or a throbbing sensation or ringing in your ears during or after listening to planars (or certain IEMs, like the Etymotic series), you are likely susceptible to this and should probably stop listening to that particular headphone.

 

[Robbo99999]

I finally got my Qudelix 5k so I could finally listen to my RTs.

I can confirm it has enough power to my liking however with PEQ enabled and running Amir's settings moving the headroom to 0 dB in the DSP settings helped. I can also report the bass is excellent with Amir's settings.

After listening to them for about 30 mins yesterday I noticed my ears were kinda sore. I didn't have the volume loud at all so I'm curious what could be causing this uncomfort.

I attributed to not being used to planers, so I gave my ears a rest until this morning. I was even more careful to keep the volume low however I still experienced uncomfort after about 1 hours of listening.

It's hard to describe the feeling but the best way I can is the feeling you have the next morning after a concert. No ear ringing sensation but definitely uncomfortable.

This is the first time I have listened to a planer headphone. Please also note I have no filter installed currently, perhaps I need to work up to listening without a filter?

Could it be the higher frequencies that are causing uncomfort? I removed the filters as this was what Amir's PEQ was based on.

EDIT: To clarify these are the RT closed, the discomfort is not while listening to music or the headphones itself it's my ear drums that are sore after listening.

It could possibly be sensitivity to the front volume sealing pressure that these and other planars use. I cannot use the dan clark headphones without pain for this very reason. (which is a shame because the form factor and weight is class leading) I have also encountered this on audeze lcd type headphones as well. I had to add vents under the pads to be able to wear those. You can test this by just wearing them without music and see if the same thing happens, you might also want to test very low volume music as well.

Is the clamping pressure of the headphone too high? I had a similar thing happen with my HifiMan HE4XX which is also planar and had a high clamping pressure......I eased the symptoms by loosening the headband, which I did by bending the headband in the opposite direction to lower it's clamping pressure. (With the lesser clamping force the headphone still makes a perfect seal, just it's solved the discomfort and seemingly strange blocked ear & tinnitus feeling I was having with this headphone.)

 

[Jimbob54]

Is the clamping pressure of the headphone too high? I had a similar thing happen with my HifiMan HE4XX which is also planar and had a high clamping pressure......I eased the symptoms by loosening the headband, which I did by bending the headband in the opposite direction to lower it's clamping pressure. (With the lesser clamping force the headphone still makes a perfect seal, just it's solved the discomfort and seemingly strange blocked ear & tinnitus feeling I was having with this headphone.)

Sadly, you are stuck with the clamp force of the Aeon. It has a band that wont be re-shaped (at least not with usual methods)- not just a metal strip like many other headphones that will happily stay flexed. Im getting used to mine- possibly due to pads softening a little so easing the clamp.

 

[Robbo99999]

Sadly, you are stuck with the clamp force of the Aeon. It has a band that wont be re-shaped (at least not with usual methods)- not just a metal strip like many other headphones that will happily stay flexed. Im getting used to mine- possibly due to pads softening a little so easing the clamp.

That's too bad, having looked at the pics it's those 2 thin metal spindles that go over your head that apply the pressure? Are they a bit brittle then, they feel like they'll snap or bend un-uniformly if your try to bend it in the opposite direction? Or it's the leather band that stops you bending the headphone in the opposite direction enough to loosen it?

EDIT: you could remove the leather band and then bend it in the opposite direction to loosen it....then you'd reattach the leather band afterwards?

 

[Jimbob54]

That's too bad, having looked at the pics it's those 2 thin metal spindles that go over your head that apply the pressure? Are they a bit brittle then, they feel like they'll snap or bend un-uniformly if your try to bend it in the opposite direction? Or it's the leather band that stops you bending the headphone in the opposite direction enough to loosen it?

Its some kind of memory metal! (You can tell im not a scientist)- not brittle at all- the opposite. You can bend in all directions but it springs back to shape. But yes, that is what applies the force.

 

[Robbo99999]

Its some kind of memory metal! (You can tell im not a scientist)- not brittle at all- the opposite. You can bend in all directions but it springs back to shape. But yes, that is what applies the force.

(I edited my post whilst you were typing your response.....so removal of the leather band wouldn't allow you to bend the headphone more effectively, then you'd reattach the leather band after reshaping?)