Dali speakers

[restorer-john]

In any case, this is a good illustration to me of the importance of being able to hear speakers before buying.

Thank goodness for bricks and mortar HiFi stores.

 

[MarcT]

Thank goodness for bricks and mortar HiFi stores.

I was able to hear a set of Rubicon 6 at a nice shop in Dallas. I thought they sounded pretty good, compared to other speakers I've heard in that price range. I think I like that hybrid tweeter they have, although I don't know how they measure. It seemed like it produced plenty of detail, without harshness, unlike the way B&W always sound to me.

 

[Tokyo_John]

@Tokyo_John: congratulations on your new speakers. They seem to be really great, going on measurements and experiences of people that bought them. Also, if you like those speakers the best, they are the best for you!
Here are some measurements if you're interested. Great neutrality. Just be careful with the amplifier at high levels, since they dip to 3.5 Ohms and have a relatively low sensitivity of 85 dB @ 2.83 volts. In a smaller room at sensible listening levels, this probably won't be a problem though. Just check amplifier temp and listen for distortion when having a wild party

I have them hooked up to a smallish Marantz M-CR603 integrated right now, rated 60W output into 6 ohms. I have a hypex amp arriving soon, P252 from March Audio, which is rated 150 W into 8 ohms, and is said to pair very nicely with the LS50 (nominally 8 ohms). I have some new stands coming soon, as well. Right now I plan to run direct from DAC to power amp with no pre, relying on the DAC’s digital attenuation (Topping D90). I hope that I don’t regularly need to attenuate more than 20-30 dB, otherwise I will probably need to get a pre to help with attenuation. DAC+Amp+Speakers for under $3k makes me happy...a good pre (probably a Topping A90 to do double duty with headphones) would add another $500. Either way, I think I’ll be very happy with this system upgrade, and the price point. Next thing beyond that is miniDSP and a sub after I move house.

 

[Macfox]

I think you've made a good addition. Impedance really isn't 8 Ohms, but generally around 4 to 5 with a dip to 3.5

 

[Tokyo_John]

I think you've made a good addition. Impedance really isn't 8 Ohms, but generally around 4 to 5 with a dip to 3.5

Agreed, I’ve seen numbers across a broad range cited, but whatever number one chooses the LS50 Meta’s impedance anyways works well with a large variety of amps. The more practical measure is sensitivity, and the 85 dB metric seems to be correct based on my crude measurements (using an Apple Watch).

The beautiful March P252 amp arrived yesterday, and I had a chance to plug it into the KEF LS50 Meta and give it a listen in the evening, some tunes (mostly Duke Ellington) on Tidal, and watched an old movie (Demolition Man) after the kids went to bed. (My wife is super-happy with the sound quality, she is catching the hi-fi bug.) With this setup, direct DAC to power amp, I’m finding that I need -15 dB attenuation in the Topping D90 for video content at moderate listening levels (low to mid 70s average dB at 1.5-2 m listening distance) but music played out of the Tidal app via USB requires -25 dB for similar SPL readings on my watch. The P252 sounds very transparent, as expected, and I noticed a significant boost in its ability to drive mid-bass dynamics relative to the less powerful amp I was running previously (perhaps better able to power through the peak in impedance at 90 Hz). I think these speakers really do need this much power, 200-250-ish WPC seems to be right on target, but will require roughly 30 dB or more attenuation for quiet (background) listening to music...whether that comes from the software, DAC, and/or a pre-amp. I’m going to continue working with this, and see about a pre-amp later if I think it is really necessary.

 

[mykeldg]

The Dali Rubicon 2s are great. Ive had the R300, Dynaudio x18, Wharfedales, B&Ws, also able to borrow ATC scm11. Personally still prefer the Rubicon 2 over all the speakers ive heard so far. very underrated brand outside of the EU. I really believe they are on to something with their SMC technology being much lower in distortion than other brands (i think there are measurements in their whitepaper https://media-dali.azureedge.net/1673/rubicon-whitepaper.pdf). If you listened to the R300 and Rubicon 2 side by side, the Kefs sounds much slower and compressed compared to the Dali. Like the woofers start & stop instantaneously --- I believe this gives them that rhythmic & engaging sound.

They are tuned for wide dispersion and is meant to be listened to wthout toe in. Maybe that is why others may perceive them as non neutral. But in the listening position, they are designed to be neutral. Alpha Audio has measurements of the RUbicon 2 along with their distortion levels, it measures best out of all speakers including ATC SCM11, Dyn x18, B&W 705s2, Monitor Audio Gold : https://www.alpha-audio.nl/review/multitest-monitor-luidsprekers-1400-2200-euro/4/

 

[Hotwetrat]

Well.

Since this old thread slithered up, I will say I am immensely impressed, subjectively, with my Opticon 1 MK2 and would be interested to hear what others think if they ever hear or measure them (preferably the latter)

Just be sure to have enough reactor grade plutonium on hand to generate the nuclear reaction for the 1.21 gigawatts of electricity required to drive them.

 

[bloodshoteyed]

gotta say i was pretty happy with almost all the Dali's i've had so far, for shorter or longer periods of time:
Zensor 3 and 5, still have the 1, didn't like the Pico tho
Oberon 5
some older Concept 6 and 8 (with the 6 being my daily driver atm)

with that said, i am going to hijack this thread a bit...if anyone knows of some Ikon 2 in good condition (can be either the mk1 or the mk2) for sale in the EU with reasonable pricing/p&p fees, please ring me up with a msg

 

[Hotwetrat]

gotta say i was pretty happy with almost all the Dali's i've had so far, for shorter or longer periods of time:
Zensor 3 and 5, still have the 1, didn't like the Pico tho
Oberon 5
some older Concept 6 and 8 (with the 6 being my daily driver atm)

with that said, i am going to hijack this thread a bit...if anyone knows of some Ikon 2 in good condition (can be either the mk1 or the mk2) for sale in the EU with reasonable pricing/p&p fees, please ring me up with a msg

Have you cheked out the Opticon ? (Ikon replacements)

 

[bloodshoteyed]

the Ikon's F3 is much lower (41 vs 59Hz), plus i'm interested in the hybrid tw (the lower price would be a secondary thought on this one atm)

 

[thyristor]

How are Oberon 5s? I see rave reviews but no measurements.

 

[thewas]

How are Oberon 5s? I see rave reviews but no measurements.

Here are few measurements https://www.dali-speakers.com/media/5668/test_dali_oberon5_hifi-records.pdf

 

[gsp1971]

Some more measurements of Dali speakers for those who are interested:

https://audio.com.pl/testy/stereo/kolumny-glosnikowe/f/1041-dali

 

[doorofnight]

I had the Dali Euphonia MS4 for around 6 years and switched to the Dutch&Dutch 8c, which are formidable measuring- and sounding speakers. I used the MS4 with two JL-E112 subs, DSP and acoustic room treatments.

A few weeks ago I ordered the Epicon 6. To compare them to the DD8c, which are better speakers by all means.. But I miss the DALI sound. From which one can conclude that the MS4's are not as completely neutral as the DD8c's .

Nevertheless, the (old) MS4 are good measuring speakers: (https://www.soundandvision.com/content/dali-euphonia-surround-speaker-system-measurements).

The E6 are also good speakers by objective measurements:

https://www.stereo.de/hifi-test/produkt/dali-epicon-6-396

 

[Joe Smith]

Anyone here have the Spektor 2s? I am currently considering them as my Xmas present, versus Wharfedale Diamond 220s or Elac Debut 2.0 B6.2 speakers. I think I've narrowed to those three...

 

[mykeldg]

Its been 6 months since I have upgraded from the Dali Rubicon 2 to the Dynaudio Special 40. Not a single week goes by where I sometimes wonder if I was happier with the Dali.
The Special 40s are the superior speaker but there is something about that Dali rhythm (from the SMC woofer) that is addictive and engaging.

 

[raest]

this thread is making me wanna sell my R7s and go buy a pair of used but well loved Epicon 6s

@doorofnight how are you liking the Epicons?

 

[mykeldg]

Was able to borrow Rubicon 2. aaaand I just put my special 40s on sale. side by side with the Rubicon 2, its no contest for me. there is just an abundance of life, drive and the midrange is much more coherent with the highs & lows. dali also has the upper hand in soundstage depth and layering. the dynaudio sounds restrained in comparison like the sound is stuck in the physical plane of the speakers. dynamics more fluid albeit s40 is a beast in terms of outright weight. yes it does not have the dynaudio heft in the bass or the uber detailed / refined esotar tweeter but I just enjoy music much more which to me matters the most. Dali also sounded cleaner with no resonances and sounds like it has lower distortion.

I think the secret sauce to all of this is Dali's ultra low distortion tech (SMC) for their driver motors/magnet. It just sounds different to all speakers ive tried when it comes to fluidity.

 

[doorofnight]

this thread is making me wanna sell my R7s and go buy a pair of used but well loved Epicon 6s

@doorofnight how are you liking the Epicons?

I love them! No regrets and no "upgrade or sidegrade" thoughts at all. I never get tired listening to them. Good luck with your decisions, the KEF R7 must be excellent too?

 

[doorofnight]

Was able to borrow Rubicon 2. aaaand I just put my special 40s on sale. side by side with the Rubicon 2, its no contest for me. there is just an abundance of life, drive and the midrange is much more coherent with the highs & lows. dali also has the upper hand in soundstage depth and layering. the dynaudio sounds restrained in comparison like the sound is stuck in the physical plane of the speakers. dynamics more fluid albeit s40 is a beast in terms of outright weight. yes it does not have the dynaudio heft in the bass or the uber detailed / refined esotar tweeter but I just enjoy music much more which to me matters the most. Dali also sounded cleaner with no resonances and sounds like it has lower distortion.

I think the secret sauce to all of this is Dali's ultra low distortion tech (SMC) for their driver motors/magnet. It just sounds different to all speakers ive tried when it comes to fluidity.

Maybe fluidity, yes. It seems like everything sounds like it should sound. F.e. falling rain does sound like falling rain. The wind really sounds like wind. Birds, voices.. And so on. It's all objective, ofcourse.