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Carver RAM285

Radtraveller

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Shipping soon!
From : https://thecarversite.com/topic/263...ctor-of-operations-jim-clark/page/2/#comments

It's a good day for a good day.. 285s start shipping next week. In on Monday out before Friday.
  • This has a good chance of being the quietest tube amp available. It will be fun when they get out in the field.
  • The guys with the 'measures best, so it sounds the best' mentality are already pigeon-holed to solid state only, but as far as tube amps go, this should set the standards for it's class.

  • Both objectively and subjectively as Hugh Dean said when he simulated it as a consultant to confirm our simulations.
  • Hugh confirmed the RAM 285 as good as we thought it was.. The reaction from Manufacturing Engineering was "Wow, Bob did this without simulation, using a calculator!
  • Just about every tube amp starts to have some roll-off below 60Hz or so. This leads to the old assumption that tube amps are less desirable for bass frequencies. Not the 285. At full power frequency response is flat below 20Hz on a resistive load test at about .4% THD+N.
  • Bob said he could take THD+N down to solid state levels, "but it would add complexity and have no sonic value."
  • Most tube amp manufacturers spec FR at 1W.. The ASR test is at 5W.. Ram 285 is w/n minus 1-2 db at full power. The minus is at 20KHz
  • It's a legacy product as intended

1697926237946.png
 

GXAlan

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Shipping soon!
From : https://thecarversite.com/topic/263...ctor-of-operations-jim-clark/page/2/#comments

It's a good day for a good day.. 285s start shipping next week. In on Monday out before Friday.
  • This has a good chance of being the quietest tube amp available. It will be fun when they get out in the field.
  • The guys with the 'measures best, so it sounds the best' mentality are already pigeon-holed to solid state only, but as far as tube amps go, this should set the standards for it's class.

We do have the SFS-80 which is one of the best measuring tube amps so far. No one expects tube amps to measure as well as solid state amps, but I'd like to see it meet the advertised specs and I'd like to see good channel matching and good AC mains noise control.

Someone should send it in! If you look at Schiit, they went from not-great to sounds good and measures well. Maybe Carver can do the same thing.
 

restorer-john

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Shipping soon!
From : https://thecarversite.com/topic/263...ctor-of-operations-jim-clark/page/2/#comments

It's a good day for a good day.. 285s start shipping next week. In on Monday out before Friday.
  • This has a good chance of being the quietest tube amp available. It will be fun when they get out in the field.
  • The guys with the 'measures best, so it sounds the best' mentality are already pigeon-holed to solid state only, but as far as tube amps go, this should set the standards for it's class.

  • Both objectively and subjectively as Hugh Dean said when he simulated it as a consultant to confirm our simulations.
  • Hugh confirmed the RAM 285 as good as we thought it was.. The reaction from Manufacturing Engineering was "Wow, Bob did this without simulation, using a calculator!
  • Just about every tube amp starts to have some roll-off below 60Hz or so. This leads to the old assumption that tube amps are less desirable for bass frequencies. Not the 285. At full power frequency response is flat below 20Hz on a resistive load test at about .4% THD+N.
  • Bob said he could take THD+N down to solid state levels, "but it would add complexity and have no sonic value."
  • Most tube amp manufacturers spec FR at 1W.. The ASR test is at 5W.. Ram 285 is w/n minus 1-2 db at full power. The minus is at 20KHz
  • It's a legacy product as intended

View attachment 320479


1697928632876.png


Oh well...
 

fpitas

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Chazz6

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From the product page. I moved the (gulp) price to the top.

$4,995.00

Power Bandwidth: 15 Hz to 35KHz minus 3 dB
Line Inputs/outputs: 2 RCA inputs, 2 RCA subwoofer outputs.
Source Impedance: 1.7 ohms
Input Impedance: 100 K ohms (RCA)
Gain: 30 dB (8 ohms)
Tube Complement: One 12AX7, two 12AT7, two 6AL5 (DC Restorer), four KT-120 included.
Bias: Top panel potentiometer adjust, front panel meter

Specifications subject to change without notice.

Bob Carver Reference Amplifier Model 285


 

fpitas

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Those kind of distortion numbers are still not as good as old tube amps from the 60s. I wonder if they just don't care.
 

fpitas

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fpitas

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fpitas

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restorer-john

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The picture posted shows a very nicely finished amplifier on the outside. If the inside build quality matches and the performance is good, it may be a successful product.

The price is certainly not obscene.
 
OP
R

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If going to post a criticism, please post your listening experience also..
Or did you ever even have a listen?
Points on a graph representing inaudible artifacts are irrelevant to an AUDIO experience..
Obsessing over a graph or spreadsheet as a substitute to actually hearing a product is lazy.

Audio.. what matters is what you can hear.
Bacon “measures” as ”bad”… but I’ll take it over tofu any day.
 

Chrispy

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If going to post a criticism, please post your listening experience also..
Or did you ever even have a listen?
Points on a graph representing inaudible artifacts are irrelevant to an AUDIO experience..
Obsessing over a graph or spreadsheet as a substitute to actually hearing a product is lazy.

Audio.. what matters is what you can hear.
Bacon “measures” as ”bad”… but I’ll take it over tofu any day.
Then again an individual's listening impressions aren't particularly very useful to others. If you don't like to review measurements of gear and only want to "listen!" you're probably in the wrong forum. Of course bacon is superior to tofu....unless you're vegan I suppose. $5k for a tube amp of 85wpc? Meh.
 

restorer-john

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285s start shipping next week. In on Monday out before Friday

In on Monday...

From where? A container from Asia, or a manufacturer in the USA? I note the RAM285 does not say "Made in the USA" on the website, whereas the other models do.
 
OP
R

Radtraveller

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Useful to know how many calories bacon has.. still doesn’t mean I will buy tofu instead.. I know I will always be happy eating bacon..
Just telling me about some measurement that I won’t physically be able to hear is not very helpful.
I want to hear what I am shelling out for.
At least with the Carver, you can hear it in your home, with your equipment, in your room, as you like, for 30 days..
Then see if the measurements or the listening matters most..
 

Chrispy

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Who's counting calories? Bacon is simply different and better :) Can't say that is a good analogy for good amps....

I've had a variety of Carver gear....it didn't change my life particularly.
 

BlackTalon

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If going to post a criticism, please post your listening experience also..
Or did you ever even have a listen?
Points on a graph representing inaudible artifacts are irrelevant to an AUDIO experience..
Obsessing over a graph or spreadsheet as a substitute to actually hearing a product is lazy.

Audio.. what matters is what you can hear.
Bacon “measures” as ”bad”… but I’ll take it over tofu any day.
I'd love to actually hear one -- can you please let me know how to do so without the sound being affected by the speakers and room?

But I get your point -- go for stuff you know really isn't good/ accurate, but makes you FEEL good. I guess this is one way to try and accomplish that if the source, speakers and room all combine with the amp to give you that. Versus striving for something neutral, and then using equalization, etc. to adjust the sound to your preference. For me personally, it seems like a fairly expensive way to approach inaccurate sound.
 
D

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"Or did you ever even have a listen?"

1) I don't listen to electronic equipment. I listen to music. If I can detect the electronics during playback, something is very, very wrong.

2) All electronic and mechanical items undergo tests to verify whether they meet standards BEFORE they are put into service. This includes backhoes, airplanes, electric shavers and water pumps. Amplifiers are no different. If an amp is tested and works acceptably well, then refer to #1 (above).

3) If you tried to pet a dog yesterday and it bit you, are you going to try to pet it today? In January of 2022, this Carver tube amp was tested. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/carver-crimson-275-review-tube-amp.29971/

It was a dog that left a bad taste in members' mouths here. This amp might be a totally different animal, but it's going to have to prove itself first. Until it does ..... we remember the first dog.

4) You said ....
Audio.. what matters is what you can hear.

..... and you are absolutely correct! Totally correct! What you should be able to hear is the recording, the whole recording and nothing but the recording. Please refer to #1 (above) again.

5) Some of the people who defended the Crimson 275 had financial interests in it, either directly or indirectly. Do you have any financial interests in this amp, or are you in any way invested in it ?

Jim
 
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OP
R

Radtraveller

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Who's counting calories? Bacon is simply different and better :) Can't say that is a good analogy for good amps....

I've had a variety of Carver gear....it didn't change my life particularly.
Measurements vs taste, or experiential vs theoretical ….
Another analogy is Communism vs Capitalism.. Communism may look good on paper, but I sure as heck will never “buy in” to if, regardless of how political or ”social” scientists measure” things.
 
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