Can anyone explain the vinyl renaissance?

[Spkrdctr]

Mount once, use anywhere.

View attachment 257575

JP, that is just.........just.... OVERKILL! Exactly what I would do too if I was into vinyl. Nothing like overkill to make you feel proud and happy. Fantastic pic.

 

[JP]

JP, that is just.........just.... OVERKILL! Exactly what I would do too if I was into vinyl. Nothing like overkill to make you feel proud and happy. Fantastic pic.

Cartridges are the only component in the system that I play with - everything else is rather static, and not easy to reconfigure.

 

[MattHooper]

Mount once, use anywhere.

View attachment 257575

Ok. You have a point.

 

[MattHooper]

Matt, I align tonearms routinely for clients, grandsons, and of course myself - it gets easier with practice. I include the usual tracking force, the visual method from my Phonograph book for skating compensation and the free tools in it for optimizing resonance - often ignored because it's misunderstood. And don't forget capacitive loading of MM\MI cartridges at the preamp input, also often ignored and highly detrimental to tone color.

View attachment 257505

First, you are a saint for helping others with that egregious process.

The fact is I really bring the misery upon myself. I can be both super picky and super lazy. Bad combo. So I'm picky enough to have bought a Mint Best Tractor cartridge alignment system, which is custom made per the tone-arm one is using:

Best Tractor / Arc Protractor / Mint Tractor / tonearm alignment / Yip Mint Protractor / Mintlp Protractor

It's ridiculously fiddly, but also very precise. It can take hours of hunched over work. I remember finally getting it all dialed in and then the next day my sleeve caught on the cartridge lift and wrenched it all out of place again. That hurt.

One of the things I love about my phone stage is that it has all the needed controls right on the front - buttons to change gain, impedance etc. I actually like to play with different impedance settings sometimes, for the change of sound. Also of course VTF can influence the sound. I generally want to please my ears.
So I try to get the alignment as precise as I can, then for final adjustments like VTF I'll play a CD and LP I have that I know both came from the same original master (released together at the same time as well), and since I know the CD is the most accurate sound I'll dial in the sound of the cartridge until it's really close to the CD. Then if I want, for instance, a bit more lush sound I can increase the VTF or go the other way for a slightly more leaner/brighter sound. (I prefer more lush).

I'm not vinyl expert though. Even many here who don't use vinyl any more are far more knowledgeable and experienced than I am about this stuff.

 

[JP]

Ok. You have a point.

My biggest issue mounting cartridges is that my 'table isn't in a spot with easy access and it's at an odd height. I use a Mint LP protractor. It's a lot easier if you're good at knowing which way to move things to get them to align, and know tricks to keep the cart from moving around before and while you're tightening things down. Being good with small motor help a lot.

I think the biggest improvement I had was getting better magnification. I use a 4x objective from a Mantis Elite inspection scope. Far less fiddly to get a good view with that than the usual options.

I can do a cartridge in about ten minutes.

 

[Doodski]

Then if I want, for instance, a bit more lush sound I can increase the VTF or go the other way for a slightly more leaner/brighter sound. (I prefer more lush).

Does a reduced VTF increase wear on the groove?

 

[MattHooper]

My biggest issue mounting cartridges is that my 'table isn't in a spot with easy access and it's at an odd height. I use a Mint LP protractor. It's a lot easier if you're good at knowing which way to move things to get them to align, and know tricks to keep the cart from moving around before and while you're tightening things down. Being good with small motor help a lot.

I think the biggest improvement I had was getting better magnification. I use a 4x objective from a Mantis Elite inspection scope. Far less fiddly to get a good view with that than the usual options.

I can do a cartridge in about ten minutes.

Ok cool, another mint user!

A big problem for me is the design of my Benz Micro Ebony L cartridge, it's a very low-slung design so, once the needle is set on to the mint tractor, it's REALLY hard to get a view of the stylus. I nave not found any easy way around this. I have tried all sorts of different magnification devices, loops of various strengths, jewelers glasses, and I have a good USB microscope. None of them allow an easy view of the needle for adjusting because no matter where each is placed to try to get a view, the cartridge head or mint protractor edge gets in the way. Eventually I get there though.

 

[MattHooper]

Does a reduced VTF increase wear on the groove?

That would be a problem with increased Vertical Tracking Force. I'm at the far end of the recommended tracking force for my cartridge. (I tend to go between 1.9 and 2.2 on my tracking force gauge).

 

[levimax]

and know tricks to keep the cart from moving around before and while you're tightening things down.

Please share.... this is the part I struggle the most with.

 

[mhardy6647]

Record-accessory technology used to be so much more interesting in the 1960s.

source: https://worldradiohistory.com/Archi...tereo/SPECIALS/Stereo-HiFI-Directory-1964.pdf

 

[Newman]

On the other hand, I've pretty much written-off ASR as the home for analog technical discussions, which is a shame as a good number of the technical members here do have a lot they could share. The Biff Tanner welcoming duo pretty much makes it a non-starter, which seems to be their intended purpose. Call me funny, but I just don't think a 2x4 to the forehead of 'vinyl is bad and you're an idiot for listening to it' is all that welcoming, regardless of how open-minded a person may ultimately be.

You must have missed the Courteous Vinyl Playback Discussion thread. Specifically created for people who want to discuss vinyl without the aggressive negativity (which tbh is underpinned by a strong desire not to allow the 2x4 Biff Tanner digiphobes to get a foothold and ruin this forum with their special hifi religion that has poisoned so many other forums for so many hobbyists for so long).

No, wait, you didn't miss it. I see lots of posts by you there. Problem?

Perhaps you can point us to a few Biff Tanner Vinyl Putdown examples in the Vinyl Forum section of ASR? Because, if it isn't happening there, then that is the safe haven you are asking for, yes, no?

 

[MattHooper]

You must have missed the Courteous Vinyl Playback Discussion thread. Specifically created for people who want to discuss vinyl without the aggressive negativity (which tbh is underpinned by a strong desire not to allow the 2x4 Biff Tanner digiphobes to get a foothold and ruin this forum with their special hifi religion that has poisoned so many other forums for so many hobbyists for so long).

No, wait, you didn't miss it. I see lots of posts by you there. Problem?

I think his position entails it would nice if a specific thread didn't have to be created to encourage civil discussion about vinyl. Why shouldn't it be the default attitude, rather than having to provide some sliver of a safe haven so you don't get dumped upon for liking vinyl too?

And, again, with the digiphobes thing, I believe you are mostly seeing ghosts. There is no reason whatsoever to think there are many (any?) "digiphobes" here threatening to flood this forum.

I'm not a digiphobe and I don't recall any other regular member saying they can't enjoy more than one format.

 

[mhardy6647]

I'm just gonna drop this here. I actually wasn't terribly impressed by the content of this 'essay', but it seems somehow apropos here.

Did the Music Business Just Kill the Vinyl Revival?

New data tells an ominous story

tedgioia.substack.com

 

[JP]

You must have missed the Courteous Vinyl Playback Discussion thread. Specifically created for people who want to discuss vinyl without the aggressive negativity (which tbh is underpinned by a strong desire not to allow the 2x4 Biff Tanner digiphobes to get a foothold and ruin this forum with their special hifi religion that has poisoned so many other forums for so many hobbyists for so long).

No, wait, you didn't miss it. I see lots of posts by you there. Problem?

What Matt said.

 

[JP]

Ok cool, another mint user!

A big problem for me is the design of my Benz Micro Ebony L cartridge, it's a very low-slung design so, once the needle is set on to the mint tractor, it's REALLY hard to get a view of the stylus. I nave not found any easy way around this. I have tried all sorts of different magnification devices, loops of various strengths, jewelers glasses, and I have a good USB microscope. None of them allow an easy view of the needle for adjusting because no matter where each is placed to try to get a view, the cartridge head or mint protractor edge gets in the way. Eventually I get there though.

I tried the USB scope thing and found it fiddly AF. Not for me.

The Mantis objective has a 96mm WD, 34mm FoV, and guesstimating a FoV DoF of about 10-15mm. It's VERY forgiving and actually difficult to not see what you need to see. Expensive though, but used examples can be found for a bit less than $100. I wasn't able to find my peak loupe one day and grabbed the Mantis. Revelation.

 

[MattHooper]

I tried the USB scope thing and found it fiddly AF. Not for me.

The Mantis objective has a 96mm WD, 34mm FoV, and guesstimating a FoV DoF of about 10-15mm. It's VERY forgiving and actually difficult to not see what you need to see. Expensive though, but used examples can be found for a bit less than $100. I wasn't able to find my peak loupe one day and grabbed the Mantis. Revelation.

Do you mean something like one of these?

Vision Engineering MEO-004 - Objective Lens for Mantis Elite Series Stereo Microscope - 4X Magnification

Buy Vision Engineering MEO-004, Objective Lens for Mantis Elite Series Stereo Microscope, 4X Magnification, Visual Inspection System Accessories, Visual Inspection Systems & Microscopes, Inspection & Testing, MEO004, V016-000020, V016000020 and related products.

www.qsource.com

 

[JP]

Do you mean something like one of these?

Vision Engineering MEO-004 - Objective Lens for Mantis Elite Series Stereo Microscope - 4X Magnification

Buy Vision Engineering MEO-004, Objective Lens for Mantis Elite Series Stereo Microscope, 4X Magnification, Visual Inspection System Accessories, Visual Inspection Systems & Microscopes, Inspection & Testing, MEO004, V016-000020, V016000020 and related products.

www.qsource.com

That's the one. Likely there are other optics with similar specs for less. These are really nice quality - overkill for this use.

 

[MattHooper]

That's the one. Likely there are other optics with similar specs for less. These are really nice quality - overkill for this use.

Ok thanks. So if I understand it, those are easier to use because they have a wider opening giving a wider angle of view, vs squinting through the narrow view of a
loop?

The issue I see for me is: how do you sit the Mantis so it stays steady? I have to use two hands when adjusting the cartridge. The loops will sit steadily on my turntable platform freeing my hands (though, as I said, not with a great angle for viewing).

 

[JP]

Ok thanks. So if I understand it, those are easier to use because they have a wider opening giving a wider angle of view, vs squinting through the narrow view of a
loop?

The issue I see for me is: how do you sit the Mantis so it stays steady? I have to use two hands when adjusting the cartridge. The loops will sit steadily on my turntable platform freeing my hands (though, as I said, not with a great angle for viewing).

I hold it in my hand, 'cause you shouldn't need two hands on the cartridge unless you're tweaking it. I look, tweak, look, tweak, etc.

One trade-off at 4x is that the stylus is pretty small. My eyes aren't great but not an issue with my glasses.

 

[JP]

Please share.... this is the part I struggle the most with.

Most of the battle is tightening the screw just enough so that the cartridges doesn't move freely but is moveable with moderate force - so that it moves only when you want it to. Second part is figuring out how to hold it in a way that it doesn't move when tightening the screws.