Can anyone explain the vinyl renaissance?

[Newman]

Look, a vinyl guy being confrontational.

You are supposed to nod sagely when @Newman and old mate make you wrong, display contrition and vow to return henceforth to the one(s and zeroes) and only SoTA path.

Science and facts make one wrong.

It’s a shoot-the-messenger error to make it all about the person bringing hard light to the discussion of soft preferences. And be clear: the hard and the soft do have an area of overlap.

It’s also a diversion tactic. Let’s divert attention away from the science or the facts, and demonise the person who uttered them. Who do they think they are? What right do they have to “make me wrong”? That’s right, let’s talk about the messengers, and how arrogant and mean they are. Much more fun. You’ve been doing it for quite a while, in this thread.

I make a genuine and deliberate effort to only discuss the soft where it overlaps the hard. It’s a legitimate topic on this website. However, the reactions of some here are as if I insisted that all soft is hard. “You’re telling me what I can and can’t like! That’s outrageous, and I’m outraged! Here, let me pour scorn on you for 50 pages!”

I believe that a careful reading of my posts will reveal that I am never making the sort of claims that the outraged attribute to me. If I occasionally do, then I apologise for those mis-steps, but I think in general I am careful not to, because my interest is in the science and facts, including the science and facts that relate to preference.

My concern is that sometimes people are deliberately choosing to misrepresent my statements…the old argumentum ad absurdum. Then shoot the messenger. I consider that to be poor form. The other possibility is that people aren’t reading with care…or maybe with too much emotion…but I find that the less likely explanation, given the generally intelligent audience here.

I’m trusting you to take these comments the right way.

cheers

 

[MattHooper]

Billie Eilish Sees Through Your Transparent Vinyl Scheme​

Billie Eilish Sees Through Your Transparent Vinyl Scheme

Pop stars, beware. She’s onto your “messed up” ways to game the charts.

www.vulture.com

Tell us, did you get the Deeper Well regular, limited-edition, quilted-picture-disc, cardinal-picture-disc, crimson-clover, spilled-milk, or green-splatter vinyl? And for Midnights, how long did it take to choose your preference from the six vinyl marbled colors? That’s too much math for Billie Eilish and her conscience, who, in a new interview with Billboard, lamented how artists have learned to game the charts system and boost sales by releasing “all sorts” of vinyl variations. Earning more money, of course, also fuels this mentality. “I can’t even express to you how wasteful it is,” she said. “It is right in front of our faces and people are just getting away with it left and right … it’s some of the biggest artists in the world making fucking 40 different vinyl packages that have a different unique thing just to get you to keep buying more. It’s so wasteful and it’s irritating to me that we’re still at a point where you care that much about your numbers and you care that much about making money — and it’s all your favorite artists doing that shit.”

 

[Axo1989]

Billie Eilish Sees Through Your Transparent Vinyl Scheme​

Billie Eilish Sees Through Your Transparent Vinyl Scheme

Pop stars, beware. She’s onto your “messed up” ways to game the charts.

www.vulture.com

Tell us, did you get the Deeper Well regular, limited-edition, quilted-picture-disc, cardinal-picture-disc, crimson-clover, spilled-milk, or green-splatter vinyl? And for Midnights, how long did it take to choose your preference from the six vinyl marbled colors? That’s too much math for Billie Eilish and her conscience, who, in a new interview with Billboard, lamented how artists have learned to game the charts system and boost sales by releasing “all sorts” of vinyl variations. Earning more money, of course, also fuels this mentality. “I can’t even express to you how wasteful it is,” she said. “It is right in front of our faces and people are just getting away with it left and right … it’s some of the biggest artists in the world making fucking 40 different vinyl packages that have a different unique thing just to get you to keep buying more. It’s so wasteful and it’s irritating to me that we’re still at a point where you care that much about your numbers and you care that much about making money — and it’s all your favorite artists doing that shit.”

But, vinyl isn’t “transparent” is it?

 

[MattHooper]

But, vinyl isn’t “transparent” is it?

That statement is good for ten pages !

 

[Robin L]

But, vinyl isn’t “transparent” is it?

I owned the "Crystal Clear" direct to disc LP of the Boston Pops directed by Arthur Fiedler. Great sound, so-so performances, very wide dynamic range. $1 at the time I bought it. And yes, it was transparent.

 

[Newman]

Let me save you 9.9 pages Matt:

 

[Axo1989]

Let me save you 9.9 pages Matt:

View attachment 359764

But look at the increased opacity where the grooves are.

 

[MattHooper]

But look at the increased opacity where the grooves are.

That's going to obscure the black backgrounds.

 

[Robin L]

That's going to obscure the black backgrounds.

That's what music does.

 

[Newman]

But look at the increased opacity where the grooves are.

That isn’t opacity, it’s nuanced transparency…

 

[levimax]

Billie Eilish Sees Through Your Transparent Vinyl Scheme​

Billie Eilish Sees Through Your Transparent Vinyl Scheme

Pop stars, beware. She’s onto your “messed up” ways to game the charts.

www.vulture.com

Tell us, did you get the Deeper Well regular, limited-edition, quilted-picture-disc, cardinal-picture-disc, crimson-clover, spilled-milk, or green-splatter vinyl? And for Midnights, how long did it take to choose your preference from the six vinyl marbled colors? That’s too much math for Billie Eilish and her conscience, who, in a new interview with Billboard, lamented how artists have learned to game the charts system and boost sales by releasing “all sorts” of vinyl variations. Earning more money, of course, also fuels this mentality. “I can’t even express to you how wasteful it is,” she said. “It is right in front of our faces and people are just getting away with it left and right … it’s some of the biggest artists in the world making fucking 40 different vinyl packages that have a different unique thing just to get you to keep buying more. It’s so wasteful and it’s irritating to me that we’re still at a point where you care that much about your numbers and you care that much about making money — and it’s all your favorite artists doing that shit.”

Kind of a grumpy bear kill joy apparently

 

[Axo1989]

Science and facts make one wrong.

It’s a shoot-the-messenger error to make it all about the person bringing hard light to the discussion of soft preferences. And be clear: the hard and the soft do have an area of overlap.

It’s also a diversion tactic. Let’s divert attention away from the science or the facts, and demonise the person who uttered them. Who do they think they are? What right do they have to “make me wrong”? That’s right, let’s talk about the messengers, and how arrogant and mean they are. Much more fun. You’ve been doing it for quite a while, in this thread.

I make a genuine and deliberate effort to only discuss the soft where it overlaps the hard. It’s a legitimate topic on this website. However, the reactions of some here are as if I insisted that all soft is hard. “You’re telling me what I can and can’t like! That’s outrageous, and I’m outraged! Here, let me pour scorn on you for 50 pages!”

I believe that a careful reading of my posts will reveal that I am never making the sort of claims that the outraged attribute to me. If I occasionally do, then I apologise for those mis-steps, but I think in general I am careful not to, because my interest is in the science and facts, including the science and facts that relate to preference.

My concern is that sometimes people are deliberately choosing to misrepresent my statements…the old argumentum ad absurdum. Then shoot the messenger. I consider that to be poor form. The other possibility is that people aren’t reading with care…or maybe with too much emotion…but I find that the less likely explanation, given the generally intelligent audience here.

I’m trusting you to take these comments the right way.

cheers

If you want me to take replies like this seriously, which I can do, better not be veering off into generalisations. I don’t have Matt’s patience to unravel them.

 

[Axo1989]

Kind of a grumpy bear kill joy apparently

 

[Newman]

If you want me to take replies like this seriously, which I can do, better not be veering off into generalisations. I don’t have Matt’s patience to unravel them.

Go ahead. Without generalisations, your rules.

 

[Basic Channel]

I'm not aware of that happening here.
More likely it's the "I like vinyl" person, when confronted with the facts of the medias severe limitations, becomes very confrontational.
Not only vinyl, go to any believer site and bring up the facts on "cable sounds" and they will attack you in the ugliest of manners for not
buying into their religion. In comes the Spanish Inquisition.

I've not read back through too much of the thread, but the posters I've seen who like vinyl are well aware of it's limitations. Although apparently if you read through the thread backwards at the right speed, you can hear Robert Plant praising the devil.

Severe limitations is wildly ott imo. At least compared to switching playback equipment, listening environment, and acoustics.

 

[Axo1989]

Go ahead. Without generalisations, your rules.

I really meant sans your generalisations, because I would never, so I’ll look forward to that.

 

[Axo1989]

I've not read back through too much of the thread, but the posters I've seen who like vinyl are well aware of it's limitations. Although apparently if you read through the thread backwards at the right speed, you can hear Robert Plant praising the devil.

I wondered what that sound was when I scrolled up.

Severe limitations is wildly ott imo. At least compared to switching playback equipment, listening environment, and acoustics.

Yes those differences can swamp any vinyl deficiencies.

 

[MattHooper]

Science and facts make one wrong.

It’s a shoot-the-messenger error to make it all about the person bringing hard light to the discussion of soft preferences. And be clear: the hard and the soft do have an area of overlap.

It’s also a diversion tactic. Let’s divert attention away from the science or the facts, and demonise the person who uttered them. Who do they think they are? What right do they have to “make me wrong”? That’s right, let’s talk about the messengers, and how arrogant and mean they are. Much more fun. You’ve been doing it for quite a while, in this thread.

I make a genuine and deliberate effort to only discuss the soft where it overlaps the hard. It’s a legitimate topic on this website. However, the reactions of some here are as if I insisted that all soft is hard. “You’re telling me what I can and can’t like! That’s outrageous, and I’m outraged! Here, let me pour scorn on you for 50 pages!”

I believe that a careful reading of my posts will reveal that I am never making the sort of claims that the outraged attribute to me. If I occasionally do, then I apologise for those mis-steps, but I think in general I am careful not to, because my interest is in the science and facts, including the science and facts that relate to preference.

My concern is that sometimes people are deliberately choosing to misrepresent my statements…the old argumentum ad absurdum. Then shoot the messenger. I consider that to be poor form. The other possibility is that people aren’t reading with care…or maybe with too much emotion…but I find that the less likely explanation, given the generally intelligent audience here.

I’m trusting you to take these comments the right way.

cheers

Newman, you have produced a lot of great stuff on this forum. Your posts are often valuable and you are especially great at providing helpful information to newbies as well.
Plus I appreciate your sense of humour.

But if I may, sometimes what I think happens is we can have a lot of confidence that we are "just stating the facts" when it can be that we're making a certain ARGUMENT we think derives from those facts. And our argument may not be the most sound inference from those facts. That's often the dispute.
"I'm citing studies" or "stating technical facts" doesn't actually make any particular argument sound. Sometimes I think this is the case with your arguments, which makes it come across as your stating on opinion as The Fact, which is why you get some pushback. Not that everyone else is immune to this.

More difficult for me in trying to discuss issues is the stawmanning . I mean, somehow you have often characterized me as anti-science, anti-truth and a "serial science denier" etc. It is the most egregious level of misrepresentation. It makes trying to communicate my views, at least to you, often seem pretty hopeless.

Anyway, few of us would stand up to close scrutiny on these counts. But...I'm just responding because your post above depicts you as frustrated about how your posts can be greeted.

Back to the vinyl discussion....

 

[drewdawg999]

Well I was at the record store yesterday in Pasadena and it was great fun, digging through the bins, the thrill of the hunt. I've been going there for many years and they've always been reasonably priced and I guess they still are comparatively, but they're starting to price me out. The supply of clean used vinyl seems to be drying up as prices are skyrocketing. I had to reluctantly pass on a couple records that are on my wantlist, namely Physical Graffiti ($35), Dreamboat Annie ($27), and Street Survivors ($20). Today I feel good about my choices, though maybe I should have bit on the Zeppelin but it's not the greatest sounding recording, thus not being "vinyl-worthy" in my book (similar to Elaine's spongeworthiness). The Heart and the Skynyrd records are not my favorite albums either, not vinyl-worthy, at least not at those prices.

What passes my criterion though is Mr. Left hand of God himself, Mike Bloomfield.

This is a wonderful blues record, a blind buy but I listened to the whole thing and loved it. He's in good voice on the album (from 1979) and of course his guitar playing is blazing and soulful and just plain awesome. The vinyl is clean, looks like it's barely been played, and sounds dynamic, clear, full-bodied and wonderful.

Also had to snag this Stones record:

Had to shell out 20 bucks but was totally worth it. I love this album even though it's not regarded as one of their absolute classics. I love the ballads Memory Motel, and Fool to Cry, but the rest of the funky rocking tracks are great fun, with a groovy bottom end. It's clean as well and sounds great, vinyl-worthy for sure with that vintage '70s soundscape that I like to show off my system.

Also shelled out 20 bucks for this great Peter Gabriel era Genesis, prog rock par excellence:

I need spectacular sonics to spend 20 bucks on a used single LP album, and this delivers in spades. Rounded out my haul with some cheaper stuff, as in David Lindley, Rick Derringer, Jethro Tull, and Harry Chapin. Haven't listened to those yet, suspect they may need some cleaning but luckily I'm armed with a VPI cleaner, with fluid from Musical Surroundings.

I also saw Neil Young's On the Beach but that was over 40 bucks. I already have the reissue that I bought new for 20-something. It would be nice to have an old pressing but the reissue sounds great and I'm happy with it. I love that record store but I'm going to have to stop going. The game is getting too rich for my blood. I'll have to settle for my thousands of records that I've pretty much run out of room for.

Anyways, my belief is that human hearing is God awful as far as sweaty animals go, thus Redbook is good enough quality as opposed to hi-res. But vinyl is good enough as well, a 60dB SNR is plenty good enough for my favorite vintage tunes. I've heard some recordings with SINAD in the 30s and you know, it's not that bad. So maybe my tolerance is high, my standards low, or maybe I'm just a half-deaf human. But I love my vinyl and suspect I always will.

 

[Newman]

..(used) prices are skyrocketing. I had to reluctantly pass on a couple records that are on my wantlist, namely
Physical Graffiti ($35),
Dreamboat Annie ($27), and
Street Survivors ($20).
Also had to snag this Stones record: Had to shell out 20 bucks
...20 bucks for this great Peter Gabriel era Genesis,
...I also saw Neil Young's On the Beach but that was over 40 bucks.
The game is getting too rich for my blood.

Good grief.

"This so-called “revival” is really a commercial shakedown of the fan." - Eamonn Forde, respected music industry journalist.

Also note that not one cent of those prices goes to the artist, who would actually benefit more if you used Spotify.