Can anyone explain the vinyl renaissance?

[Axo1989]

The attention you devote to audio gear vastly swamps that given by the average Taylor Swift fan, who can thoroughly enjoy her music on everything from crappy ear buds, or a laptop, or a cheap Amazon-bought turntable. Now, do you want to claim that you care more about music, or enjoy music more, or are more "all about the music" than a fervent Taylor Swift fan (or any of countless other examples of non-audiophile music lovers)?

I'm sure people can conflate "caring about music" with "caring about reproduction of music" at times.

I care about both, really. Of course, without music, caring about reproduction of same would be somewhat meaningless.

People will dismiss Taylor and her listeners of course, but that's often snobbery, or a generation gap, or just different tastes. Performers likely care about reproduction of their music, at least for their own live performances. They may be less prescriptive about how their listeners listen to recordings, which is pragmatic. Gatekeeping your fans' experience would only be relevant/sensible for a subset of artists/performers.

 

[IPunchCholla]

I'm sure people can conflate "caring about music" with "caring about reproduction of music" at times.

I care about both, really. Of course, without music, caring about reproduction of same would be somewhat meaningless.

People will dismiss Taylor and her listeners of course, but that's often snobbery, or a generation gap, or just different tastes. Performers likely care about reproduction of their music, at least for their own live performances. They may be less prescriptive about how their listeners listen to recordings, which is pragmatic. Gatekeeping your fans' experience would only be relevant/sensible for a subset of artists/performers.

I think 90% of every discussion, including this one, is people having different tastes trying to turn an opinion into a logical stance.

I don’t like much classical music. I can appreciate most of it. I can admire the skill and talent of the composer, the conductor, and the musicians. The built up relationships of sound, the contrasts that are then used appeal to my sense of logic. But really, I just don’t like it. I don’t enjoy it. I own some and every once in a while I will play it, and just… not even finish listening to it. That’s fine. The same is true for most rap (except the conductor bit). And for pop. The problem is people, including myself, tend to externalization these opinions. It is built into the way we express ourselves, even.”I don’t enjoy” becomes “classical is bad, rap sucks, pop is dumb”. And now it is a statement of fact that can be tested/contested. And we do. Over and over again.

 

[Sal1950]

You care about sound, which is part of the music. You could've spent time rather than money learning to play music instruments and it'd give you an added appreciation of other aspects of music.

Your 100% correct there dear friend.
One of the greatest regrets of my life is that I never dedicated myself in learning to play some instrument half way well.
I bought myself a Roland keyboard for my 70th birthday.

Learn Piano At 70+ ?

Bought myself a Yamaha NP-12 keyboard this week. Never played any instrument before, except for dabbling as a kid. Always wanted to but never put together the time. It will be interesting to see if I can put much together at my age. :oops:

www.audiosciencereview.com

3 years later I'm still at it, I do enjoy an hour or so practice most every day, very relaxing.
OTOH, for me I started way to late, my learning abilities have been badly compromised do to a wayward lifestyle from
what I'll call Ozzy Osbourne syndrome. When I came home from my vacation in sunny South Vietnam in 1970, I immediately went to
this party that lasted for the next 40+ years. LOL
I can now read music very crudely, and have slightly developed the hand/mind coordination to play with both hands at the same time.
But the memory is a very big problem. I have one hell of a time keeping much more that a few pages of notation in my head and if I
don't play that piece for more than a couple weeks, it's all gone.
Repercussions of a youth mis-spent.

 

[Basic Channel]

Your 100% correct there dear friend.
One of the greatest regrets of my life is that I never dedicated myself in learning to play some instrument half way well.
I bought myself a Roland keyboard for my 70th birthday.

Learn Piano At 70+ ?

Bought myself a Yamaha NP-12 keyboard this week. Never played any instrument before, except for dabbling as a kid. Always wanted to but never put together the time. It will be interesting to see if I can put much together at my age. :oops:

www.audiosciencereview.com

3 years later I'm still at it, I do enjoy an hour or so practice most every day, very relaxing.
OTOH, for me I started way to late, my learning abilities have been badly compromised do to a wayward lifestyle from
what I'll call Ozzy Osbourne syndrome. When I came home from my vacation in sunny South Vietnam in 1970, I immediately went to
this party that lasted for the next 40+ years. LOL
I can now read music very crudely, and have slightly developed the hand/mind coordination to play with both hands at the same time.
But the memory is a very big problem. I have one hell of a time keeping much more that a few pages of notation in my head and if I
don't play that piece for more than a couple weeks, it's all gone.
Repercussions of a youth mis-spent.

I am only just turned 40 but can appreciate the memory differences already! I think you can learn more easily by obsession and being happy with yourself. I always say to people that they maybe love the idea of playing the guitar/piano but you've gotta love playing. But that's maybe more my personality than a general thing.

As potential consolation for your youthful endeavors, I wonder if there is a bit of a ying and yang to it all anyway. At concerts as you start to appreciate things more, you become more aware of people talking and spilling beer on you. It's almost like they just appear alongside you at concerts in your early 20s.

 

[pablolie]

I am only just turned 40 but can appreciate the memory differences already! I think you can learn more easily by obsession and being happy with yourself. I always say to people that they maybe love the idea of playing the guitar/piano but you've gotta love playing. But that's maybe more my personality than a general thing.

As potential consolation for your youthful endeavors, I wonder if there is a bit of a ying and yang to it all anyway. At concerts as you start to appreciate things more, you become more aware of people talking and spilling beer on you. It's almost like they just appear alongside you at concerts in your early 20s.

To me the key is to not expect too much of yourself. I just turned 60, I do it for fun. One thing I have going for me is that, as a teenager, I doggedly learned to play Satie's Gymnopedie No 1, which I can still do. But it leads those who listen to my little party trick to assume I can really play well, when in fact I am pretty useless otherwise, and just like some of you, I am trying to improve now. It's regularly quite frustrating, but hey...

 

[Basic Channel]

To me the key is to not expect too much of yourself. I just turned 60, I do it for fun. One thing I have going for me is that, as a teenager, I doggedly learned to play Satie's Gymnopedie No 1, which I can still do. But it leads those who listen to my little party trick to assume I can really play well, when in fact I am pretty useless otherwise, and just like some of you, I am trying to improve now. It's regularly quite frustrating, but hey...

Yeah for fun is how I'd see it. If there is a guitar in a house, it is like a dog. It's harder not to play with it.

At least you learnt to play something beautiful as a party trick.

 

[Victor Martell]

I think 90% of every discussion, including this one, is people having different tastes trying to turn an opinion into a logical stance.

I don’t like much classical music. I can appreciate most of it. I can admire the skill and talent of the composer, the conductor, and the musicians. The built up relationships of sound, the contrasts that are then used appeal to my sense of logic. But really, I just don’t like it. I don’t enjoy it. I own some and every once in a while I will play it, and just… not even finish listening to it. That’s fine. The same is true for most rap (except the conductor bit). And for pop. The problem is people, including myself, tend to externalization these opinions. It is built into the way we express ourselves, even.”I don’t enjoy” becomes “classical is bad, rap sucks, pop is dumb”. And now it is a statement of fact that can be tested/contested. And we do. Over and over again.

Well said @IPunchCholla

No one should ever apologize for their own taste nor mistake it for a universal truth! @IPunchCholla you are 100% right. Lots of times when people hear someone saying "I don't like X" and X is something they like, they get on the attack, like If their baby was called ugly. You don't like classical? YOUR CHOICE AND TASTE - will never ever call you out and I will fight anyone calling you out for it. People doing so are the ones that confuse their taste with a yardstick of quality.

Kind of like the people around here confusing something so simple as "I like vinyl" with "it's the best" - wonder what the mental process is to turn the first into the second.

 

[pablolie]

Well said @IPunchCholla

No one should ever apologize for their own taste nor mistake it for a universal truth! @IPunchCholla you are 100% right. Lots of times when people hear someone saying "I don't like X" and X is something they like, they get on the attack, like If their baby was called ugly. You don't like classical? YOUR CHOICE AND TASTE - will never ever call you out and I will fight anyone calling you out for it. People doing so are the ones that confuse their taste with a yardstick of quality.

Kind of like the people around here confusing something so simple as "I like vinyl" with "it's the best" - wonder what the mental process is to turn the first into the second.

I agree. But also, people that say "I like XYZ" sometimes go the extra step in saying "XYZ is the best and you are a benighted fool for not accepting its superiority". Or instead of saying "Personally I am not into ZXY" they say "ZXY is garbage, you are a fool if you're into that!". And sometimes, when you tell people they are free to like whatever they want, they twist your words and conclude "So you agree that I am RIGHT and my choice is superior!". Etc etc.

It's in the nuances.

 

[Robin L]

I agree. But also, people that say "I like XYZ" sometimes go the extra step in saying "XYZ is the best and you are a benighted fool for not accepting its superiority". Or instead of saying "Personally I am not into ZXY" they say "ZXY is garbage, you are a fool if you're into that!". And sometimes, when you tell people they are free to like whatever they want, they twist your words and conclude "So you agree that I am RIGHT and my choice is superior!". Etc etc.

It's in the nuances.

Very much agree.

I repeatedly point out that I really enjoy recordings from the 1930s. I know they are technologically deficient compared even to LPs on account of surface noise (though I've heard a lot of transfers lately that have cleaned up nicely) and restricted frequency response or dynamic range. That doesn't mean I love music any less, it might even mean I love music more, more at least than its method of conveyance. Of course, someone who enjoys music on a portable radio or cheap earbuds might enjoy music more than someone constantly obsessing over the technical quality of the sound.

I used to obsess over sound quality, wasn't good for my mental health or my enjoyment of music. Now that I accept the limits of my playback gear (and hearing) I find I'm enjoying music more.

 

[Sal1950]

Yeah for fun is how I'd see it. If there is a guitar in a house, it is like a dog

You do have to keep that attitude and just enjoy what your doing.
Unlike endeavors attempted when your younger, if you set goals you consistently fail to achieve,
you will very likely lose motivation very rapidly.

Kind of like the people around here confusing something so simple as "I like vinyl" with "it's the best"

I'm not aware of that happening here.
More likely it's the "I like vinyl" person, when confronted with the facts of the medias severe limitations, becomes very confrontational.
Not only vinyl, go to any believer site and bring up the facts on "cable sounds" and they will attack you in the ugliest of manners for not
buying into their religion. In comes the Spanish Inquisition.

 

[pablolie]

...

That doesn't look too bad, inquisition wise - is it a steam room? :-D ... I have been known to run away from bedrooms with more elaborate torture devices. :-D

 

[deweydm]

2023 RIAA stats.

Sales volume by format.

New EP/LP unit sales growth is really decelerating if I’m reading that right. 43.6% year over year unit growth in 2021. 10.3% for 2022. 6.6% last year, for 2023.

 

[Victor Martell]

I'm not aware of that happening here.
More likely it's the "I like vinyl" person, when confronted with the facts of the medias severe limitations, becomes very confrontational.
Not only vinyl, go to any believer site and bring up the facts on "cable sounds" and they will attack you in the ugliest of manners for not
buying into their religion. In comes the Spanish Inquisition.

But that is what is happening!!! Exactly! No matter how many times I say "I AM AWARE OF THE LIMITATIONS, I KNOW THEM. I JUST LIKE IT"
for some reason some people as if I said "vinyl is best" or that I believe is magic cables - I have never said that and yet you wrote what you wrote, which is good, so the proof is right there, don't have to look for other instances... Problem is that it triggers me!

Can they read? Can't they understand? Why does it look like they can't? I worry for the world when people behave like that. Is just like basic functions are turned off
Let me say it again.

"I am not saying is best, I am not saying you should get into it. I JUST LIKE IT. YOU DO YOU"

Hope the big letters help yo get it. It is my preference (and on top, not the only one).

I should leave this and every internet forum, but since I stopped watching TV, this is my only entertainment...

 

[MattHooper]

Yes I do.
I care more because I've spent a lifetime investing in the best gear I can afford
to hear the music reproduced in it's clearist, most accurate form possible. I believe that's true about a large number of our members. They came here with an interest in how the equipment measures to find the best they can secure, not the ones capable of creating the highest distortion.

Ok.

I view that as a self-gratifying form of delusion.

I would agree that lots of audiophiles could justifiably conclude that listening to music is more important to them than many people they know. I can certainly think of people I know who aren't as deeply in to music as I am or many audiophiles I know. I think an "audiophile system" deliberately and carefully selected is, generally speaking, a sign of how important music is in someone's life.

However, it is far from necessary to have the enthusiasm we do for audio equipment in order to be just as passionate or more about listening to music. I find the idea of my saying I'm more passionate about the music I love than a passionate Taylor Swift fan to be just silly. Or that having an audiophile set up means we are more passionate about the music we love vs countless music fans through the years...like all those Beatles fans listening on subpar turntables weren't "really" in to the music like we are? Gimme a break.

 

[stringer]

But that is what is happening!!! Exactly! No matter how many times I say "I AM AWARE OF THE LIMITATIONS, I KNOW THEM. I JUST LIKE IT"
for some reason some people as if I said "vinyl is best" or that I believe is magic cables - I have never said that and yet you wrote what you wrote, which is good, so the proof is right there, don't have to look for other instances... Problem is that it triggers me!

Can they read? Can't they understand? Why does it look like they can't? I worry for the world when people behave like that. Is just like basic functions are turned off
Let me say it again.

"I am not saying is best, I am not saying you should get into it. I JUST LIKE IT. YOU DO YOU"

Hope the big letters help yo get it. It is my preference (and on top, not the only one).

I should leave this and every internet forum, but since I stopped watching TV, this is my only entertainment...

They have admitted they have memory issues. Yelling at them won't help.

 

[Axo1989]

But that is what is happening!!! Exactly! No matter how many times I say "I AM AWARE OF THE LIMITATIONS, I KNOW THEM. I JUST LIKE IT"
for some reason some people as if I said "vinyl is best" or that I believe is magic cables - I have never said that and yet you wrote what you wrote, which is good, so the proof is right there, don't have to look for other instances... Problem is that it triggers me!

Can they read? Can't they understand? Why does it look like they can't? I worry for the world when people behave like that. Is just like basic functions are turned off
Let me say it again.

"I am not saying is best, I am not saying you should get into it. I JUST LIKE IT. YOU DO YOU"

Hope the big letters help yo get it. It is my preference (and on top, not the only one).

I should leave this and every internet forum, but since I stopped watching TV, this is my only entertainment...

Look, a vinyl guy being confrontational.

You are supposed to nod sagely when @Newman and old mate make you wrong, display contrition and vow to return henceforth to the one(s and zeroes) and only SoTA path.

 

[Axo1989]

They have admitted they have memory issues. Yelling at them won't help.

Also explains the repetition.

 

[MattHooper]

Well said @IPunchCholla

No one should ever apologize for their own taste nor mistake it for a universal truth! @IPunchCholla you are 100% right. Lots of times when people hear someone saying "I don't like X" and X is something they like, they get on the attack, like If their baby was called ugly. You don't like classical? YOUR CHOICE AND TASTE - will never ever call you out and I will fight anyone calling you out for it. People doing so are the ones that confuse their taste with a yardstick of quality.

Kind of like the people around here confusing something so simple as "I like vinyl" with "it's the best" - wonder what the mental process is to turn the first into the second.

Agree with your sentiment.

We tend to be judgmental; comes with the species. As I've pointed out there's long been an underlying Audiophile Purity Test, that we all are supposed to keep in mind: "It's All About The Music." And if someone is deemed to be distracted too much by The Gear, then they are falling short of that goal, and perhaps need reminding to get back on track. Being All About The Music feels like the purest goal.

I just don't think we need this underlying judgment. There's nothing wrong at all with being fascinated with the equipment too. I mean, clearly most of us here have that fascination...look at how much time Amir spends measuring and testing equipment he'll never even own. One of the "shameful" shibboleths is the caricature raised of the audiophile who has a $100,000 audio system but only 10 records that he plays on it. That kind of caricature is often raised as a "remember not to be That Guy" signpost.

But to the degree any such audiophiles would match such a description, why must we judge that as wrong or less noble? That would be that person's bliss...we all have our own bliss. I mean, if you feel yourself recoiling at the prospect of an audiophile spending all that time and money on gear only to listen to few recordings, think how the average non-audiophile music lover would recoil at the sheer amount of money and time most here spend on audio gear, or at all the time someone like Amir devotes to just measuring differences in DACs or amps etc. To them, that would be a horrible way to spend that much time.

But...hey...we all do what we like to do, and so, barring of course someone hurting someone else with their hobby, I personally try to refrain from judging someone else's approach to this hobby (or others) as somehow lesser than my own.

 

[Victor Martell]

Also explains the repetition.

hehe - should not get so triggered - but indeed, have thin skin when it comes to peeps thinking I am for magic stones/cables/dacs just because I like vinyl. While I can stop watching the thread, wish there was a way to stopping from showing up at all so I am not tempted to go back it - none that I could find; if there is, I do apologize for not seeing it and pls let me know.

 

[Axo1989]

hehe - should not get so triggered - but indeed, have thin skin when it comes to peeps thinking I am for magic stones/cables/dacs just because I like vinyl. While I can stop watching the thread, wish there was a way to stopping from showing up at all so I am not tempted to go back it - none that I could find; if there is, I do apologize for not seeing it and pls let me know.

Otoh, just keep posting.

I do find the ignore list helps with serial offenders. I can't resist peeking from time to time but I'm less likely to get myself in trouble. While the exhortation to be all about the music is ostensibly in play, it was a while back in a thread about avant garde and minimalist music when old mate had to give everyone the benefit of ludicrous views on "real art" ad nauseam ...