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Build of gr-research X-LS Encore

amirm

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Therefore @Rick Sykora's comparison was doomed to fail from the beginning (with a lot of luck the deviations could have been minimal, but we would never have known).
??? If there are variations we need to document them as the reason for different response for the speaker with "premium" parts. That is huge value to people so I don't get your comment about failure.
 

ctrl

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??? If there are variations we need to document them as the reason for different response for the speaker with "premium" parts. That is huge value to people so I don't get your comment about failure.
From that point of view, I agree with you (but to document it exactly, every component value would have to be measured).
By doomed to failure I meant the solution of the riddle whether the expensive premium version of the Encore crossover sounds much better than the standard crossover with exactly identical component values.
It would only be an anecdotal evidence if you and Rick compared the speakers in a listening test for differences, just as I couldn't hear any difference in different capacitors in my listening tests with exactly identical capacitor values, but at least it would have been another piece of the puzzle.

It would be interesting to know whether other Encore builders have already received premium crossovers with modified component values compared to the standard version.
Because the upgrades are not marketed as improved crossover tuning, which would be completely okay, but the impression is given that the expensive components would lead to a change in sound due to the "better" quality.
Additional upgrades for the X-LS include a Sonicap upgrade. The Sonicaps increase clarity across the board and improve resolution levels. The Sonicap upgrade is $105.
The resistors can also be upgraded to Mills resistors. This also improves clarity, The Mills resistor upgrade is $45.
 

jtwrace

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Evidently Danny says everything is fine and the $100k Klippel matches his Clio measurements. :facepalm:

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=171832.msg1820505#msg1820505

gramir.JPG
 
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Rick Sykora

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Thanks @ctrl for your synopsis, but should make 2 quick clarifications. First the comparison task was not mine but an ASR one. Second, while I agree, the comparison cannot fulfill its original goal, it is not entirely doomed. We can either move forward with the redesigned crossover, obtain components that would roll back the crossover change and/or try again on another speaker. The first choice has the drawback of being inconclusive about the premium component changes, the roll back will delay thing slightly (but Amir has plenty test anyway) and plan to do the last one anyway (but it is even greater delay).

Anyway, the current iteration is done. I had a last minute mod as I somehow overestimated the size of the original tweeter crossover and the new one was .5 inch too wide. It got a liposuction and a tummy tuck. With minimal scarring it fits into the same cabinet and I made FR measurements before and after. I need to transfer them from my other computer, but will not make anyone wait for the visual results. With my simple setup, the on-axis response does change. It is less than the previous comparisons, but (I think) still derails the original test intent. :(
 
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Rick Sykora

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Here is my FR measurement comparing the premium (red trace) and base (green trace) crossover:

gr x-ls encore crossover comparo.png

Though different. this is pretty minimal and a quick check with Danny revealed that the original premium cap is still not available.

Am reviewing with Amir, but as usual (constructive) comments are welcome!
 

ctrl

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Here is my FR measurement comparing the premium (red trace) and base (green trace) crossover:
That looks really not bad. So I have to tone down my criticism of the changed component values considerably.
Can you say something else about the measurements - measuring distance, smoothing.
 
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Rick Sykora

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That looks really not bad. So I have to tone down my criticism of the changed component values considerably.
Can you say something else about the measurements - measuring distance, smoothing.

Oops, but they are my typical ones... About a meter, gated at 3ms, no smoothing
 

wje

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Not to sway this thread off-topic, but I've been a follower of the X-LS from years back. Bought a few pair from AV123 until they went under. The "Encore" version used a better tweeter than the original as it is more of wave-guide tweeter. Also, if you buy the "kit" from GR Resarch, you can choose to upgrade to Sonicaps, Mills resistors, etc., but that adds a little to the cost.

After selling off my Magnepan LRS and MG .7 speakers last weekend and realizing it would be a week of waiting until the MG 1.7i pair arrived, I scoured my local Facebook Marketplace. I found a pair of AV123 X-SLS (37" tower version of the LS) for $100. The cabinets were satin black and had some scrapes on them. But wait... there's more. It wasn't just that the speakers were available for $100, but that they included the Skiing Ninja crossover upgrades. I have to take out the woofer so I can see what level of the Ninjas crossover components were applied and if they did the full modification with No-Rez. Again, when I have a bit more time, I will confirm. However, the sound? Oh my! Yes, a $299 speaker from 2008 and $300 in crossover updates made for a fine sounding pair of speakers. When I got these hooked up late on Monday evening, I was taken aback. Granted, these are just my impressions in how they sounded to my ears, but call me impressed. I almost felt like getting out of the Magnepan 1.7i deal because these modified X-SLS speakers really made me smile. Much more so than the $200 I've paid in the past on used Elac B6.2 speakers and other speakers that I've owned.

Also, I upgraded my MiniDSP this week from the 2x4 HD to the DDRC-24 via a firmware purchase. Now, just waiting on the microphone to arrive this afternoon so I can proceed with running the DIRAC room correction software. Since the cabinets had some scrapes, I decided to work on refinishing them with a teak-colored finish that I'm rolling on for a bit of orange-peel surface. In the end, they should be just like new - or a little better than new.

The poor guy that was selling them for $100 indicated he just wanted to get rid of them as they didn't use them anymore. Needless to say, he wasn't aware of the Skiing Ninja crossover upgrades, etc. Also, when you go to GR Research, purchase the X-SLS components, upgraded capacitors, Mills resistors, etc. in the kit, the cost is about $475 and you then have to build the cabinets.

XSLS Speakers.JPG
 

wje

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As for the instructions, they are pretty light and so, despite the nice parts coverage, not near as complete. A few obvious questions might be how to layout the crossover (only schematic supplied), where/how to mount it, and why heat shrink tubing is supplied? None of this is addressed. Fortunately, the crossover topology is simple and so I will do a layout later. As for wood, it appears I will have more than enough using my usual 2x4 foot sheets of 3/4 inch MDF (1 sheet is more than enough for one cabinet). More to come...

Not sure if your question was ever answered and I'm a bit late in getting to this thread. I bough the Klipsch RP-600M crossover upgrade from GR Research. Danny includes a fair amount of solid copper wire for making the connections between the binding posts, or speaker tubes to the crossover board as well as the connections from the crossover board to the drivers themselves. The supplied solid copper wire isn't OFC, so it will tarnish with time. The shrink tube is used on the sections where you solder your connections and the shrink tube will be utilized to protect the sections of exposed bare copper wire from tarnishing.

Though, I never finished building out the RP-600M crossovers, I did have to do plenty of my own legwork to understand how it all went together. Fortunately, some great contributors on Audio Circle and even via You Tube explained much of what I needed to learn. I do plan on finishing the build of the Klipsch crossovers and will sell the completed versions of the crossovers at some point as I don't personally have a need for them.

Now, I need to revisit the review thread and see how your build turned out, how it measured, etc. But, what matters most is your own satisfaction on the work you did and the enjoyment you'll get from the speakers you built, or if you decide they're not for you and you decide to move onto another project or set of speakers.

I did get a new set of Parts Express binding posts that I purchased off of Amazon for about $16 and change. I will be replacing the cheaper AV123 binding posts are original on the speakers I bought.

Parts Express Binding Posts.JPG
 
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Rick Sykora

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Upgraded unit shipped yesterday to Amir! It takes about a week for UPS ground to get a package out to Seattle. If all goes well, will see how much No rez and premium crossover parts affect the results...
 
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xarkkon

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That would be an interesting experiment. Thanks for the efforts! I went with the basic option as like many here I'm skeptical as to how big an improvement they would make, but happy to be proven wrong.

Stupidly, I just glued my boxes together today BEFORE cutting the woofer holes. I figured I could cut them post glue up (which is pretty handy for sawdust containment)... but forgot I've got to put those darned roundovers at the back of the woofer hole. Argh...
 
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Rick Sykora

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That would be an interesting experiment. Thanks for the efforts! I went with the basic option as like many here I'm skeptical as to how big an improvement they would make, but happy to be proven wrong.

Stupidly, I just glued my boxes together today BEFORE cutting the woofer holes. I figured I could cut them post glue up (which is pretty handy for sawdust containment)... but forgot I've got to put those darned roundovers at the back of the woofer hole. Argh...

been there before on forgetting the roundover! have gotten practice at setting table saw to cut off a front baffle though :D
 

ta240

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but forgot I've got to put those darned roundovers at the back of the woofer hole. Argh...

Not that I've done that before ;) but if there is room to the sides of the hole to get the right angle then a half round rasp file can help add them at that point
iu


they make inverse roundover router bits but they are expensive
IRO-Set2-600x600.jpg
 

xarkkon

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been there before on forgetting the roundover! have gotten practice at setting table saw to cut off a front baffle though :D
Glad to hear my mistake isn't all that uncommon :D cutting off the front baffle? that's a good idea.... yet another reason to get a table saw. now, if only my missus will agree to it. heh.

Not that I've done that before ;) but if there is room to the sides of the hole to get the right angle then a half round rasp file can help add them at that point
iu


they make inverse roundover router bits but they are expensive
IRO-Set2-600x600.jpg
Yeah, found some inverse roundovers but they all seem pretty expensive. Filing is probably what I'll have to do. Not looking forward to it, but at least it's cost effective. Alternatively, I'll see if I can just saw out a small chamfer. Thanks!
 
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ta240

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The rasps like that take a lot of material off fast.

I sometimes like to pick what is going to be the front of the speaker after I get it all glued and sanded but that eliminates the ability to roundover the inside before assembly.
 
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Not to sway this thread off-topic, but I've been a follower of the X-LS from years back. Bought a few pair from AV123 until they went under. The "Encore" version used a better tweeter than the original as it is more of wave-guide tweeter. Also, if you buy the "kit" from GR Resarch, you can choose to upgrade to Sonicaps, Mills resistors, etc., but that adds a little to the cost.

After selling off my Magnepan LRS and MG .7 speakers last weekend and realizing it would be a week of waiting until the MG 1.7i pair arrived, I scoured my local Facebook Marketplace. I found a pair of AV123 X-SLS (37" tower version of the LS) for $100. The cabinets were satin black and had some scrapes on them. But wait... there's more. It wasn't just that the speakers were available for $100, but that they included the Skiing Ninja crossover upgrades. I have to take out the woofer so I can see what level of the Ninjas crossover components were applied and if they did the full modification with No-Rez. Again, when I have a bit more time, I will confirm. However, the sound? Oh my! Yes, a $299 speaker from 2008 and $300 in crossover updates made for a fine sounding pair of speakers. When I got these hooked up late on Monday evening, I was taken aback. Granted, these are just my impressions in how they sounded to my ears, but call me impressed. I almost felt like getting out of the Magnepan 1.7i deal because these modified X-SLS speakers really made me smile. Much more so than the $200 I've paid in the past on used Elac B6.2 speakers and other speakers that I've owned.

Also, I upgraded my MiniDSP this week from the 2x4 HD to the DDRC-24 via a firmware purchase. Now, just waiting on the microphone to arrive this afternoon so I can proceed with running the DIRAC room correction software. Since the cabinets had some scrapes, I decided to work on refinishing them with a teak-colored finish that I'm rolling on for a bit of orange-peel surface. In the end, they should be just like new - or a little better than new.

The poor guy that was selling them for $100 indicated he just wanted to get rid of them as they didn't use them anymore. Needless to say, he wasn't aware of the Skiing Ninja crossover upgrades, etc. Also, when you go to GR Research, purchase the X-SLS components, upgraded capacitors, Mills resistors, etc. in the kit, the cost is about $475 and you then have to build the cabinets.

View attachment 80297
WJE nice, very nice. :) I just finished by XLS encore kit and already they make me smile. :) Basic kit with no tube connectors or upgraded components as the budget is a little tight.
 
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That would be an interesting experiment. Thanks for the efforts! I went with the basic option as like many here I'm skeptical as to how big an improvement they would make, but happy to be proven wrong.

Stupidly, I just glued my boxes together today BEFORE cutting the woofer holes. I figured I could cut them post glue up (which is pretty handy for sawdust containment)... but forgot I've got to put those darned roundovers at the back of the woofer hole. Argh...

Xarkkon, whatever the result Amir concludes for the upgraded kit, the basic kit is a good deal and at the end of the day if you like what you built and how it sounds to you in your house then it is an awesome experience all round.

Can I say that I have never umm rounded over the outside face on one baffle by accident.... :) Do over :)

Big thanks to Rick and Amir as they made me give a little pause and look at the GR kit again. I looked into other kits but I ended up still getting the XLS encore kit. I have finished the build this weekend and have 10 hours on it and it makes me smile. Really happy with the sound produced and the look.

DIY Newbie
 

xarkkon

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The rasps like that take a lot of material off fast.

I sometimes like to pick what is going to be the front of the speaker after I get it all glued and sanded but that eliminates the ability to roundover the inside before assembly.
will get a rasp! tried a coping saw but it was a little too tight an angle to saw it out. worse comes to worst i'll get a drill file bit :)

Xarkkon, whatever the result Amir concludes for the upgraded kit, the basic kit is a good deal and at the end of the day if you like what you built and how it sounds to you in your house then it is an awesome experience all round.

Can I say that I have never umm rounded over the outside face on one baffle by accident.... :) Do over :)

Big thanks to Rick and Amir as they made me give a little pause and look at the GR kit again. I looked into other kits but I ended up still getting the XLS encore kit. I have finished the build this weekend and have 10 hours on it and it makes me smile. Really happy with the sound produced and the look.

DIY Newbie
rounding over the outside face? :D glad to know i'm not alone in the mistakes department! heh. glad to hear too that the set is doing you well. any photos of the end product? congrats!
 
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Rick Sykora

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will get a rasp! tried a coping saw but it was a little too tight an angle to saw it out. worse comes to worst i'll get a drill file bit :)


rounding over the outside face? :D glad to know i'm not alone in the mistakes department! heh. glad to hear too that the set is doing you well. any photos of the end product? congrats!

Fortunately nobody will see. Can save a little work and leave more wood around holes to give them more wood to grab. :cool:
 
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