MDF and Baltic Birch and flatpacks, oh my!

[carbidetooth]

I’ve been hanging around here a while, but only occasionally post. Some may know me from my YouTube videos where I mostly yap about DIY speaker building for which I have a weirdly unnatural attraction.

I cut my teeth in the custom cabinet world, later making a living as a marine mechanic which led to a sales position for same company. Ill-suited for that as a steady diet I reverted to my former passion and area of expertise and hung my own shingle as a remodeling contractor. Now doing what I want when I want for the most part.

My interest now is to do what I can to encourage DIY audio and perhaps provide a gateway to aspiring speaker builders. To that end, I’ve cut and sold over 400 flatpack cabinets for GR Research X-LS Encore. No, I’m not affiliated with them, but have spoken with the owner extensively over the years.

I contacted Rick Sykora when I first caught wind of Directiva project. My hope is to produce some parts or flatpack cabinets and provide them to enthusiasts at essentially my cost while satisfying the woodworker in me…and I’m a fussy SOB! While many in this hobby appear to think a CNC router is some magical tool, I can tell you that from a business perspective, its strong suite is mass production, not one-off projects. To be clear, should I embark on a project like Directiva, it will lean toward the more elegant side, both in material and design. I have little interest in producing a bunch of rectangles like you’ll find elsewhere. It also has to fit in my “mini mass-production” framework to be anywhere near a reasonable value.

Concerning raw materials; Things went a little nuts during Covid. Supplies dwindled and became more expensive. A lot more expensive! Baltic Birch plywood has more than doubled from what I used to pay, and supply is sketchy with the Ukraine war. All Baltic Birch originates from that area of the world. The trees and the mills are there. Supply of my favored MDF for speaker building, Ranger Board Platinum, has stabilized, albeit at a higher price.

All that for this: I’m happy to field questions where I can shed light and hope to produce something to nurture the DIY community. No hidden agendas, no ego trips, no BS.

 

[Cal_Cobra]

I'm doing my first home speaker build now, with the Swan HiVi 3.1A kit, along with a crossover overhaul. I've been involving my six year old daughter as much as I can to try to get her interested, and this has been a great kit so far, straight forward and seems to provide a lot of bang for the buck.

Would really like to see what you're doing, can you share your YouTube channel?

 

[EERecordist]

There is a small UK mastering studio that DIYed their own speaker and now are selling it complete. It has very high end drivers and is an active speaker, so it is up there in price.

They settled on a through-color MDF like material with more resin, called Valchromat. If you have the time, I would be interested in what you find about US distribution, price, machinability, and sound for a speaker. Maybe you can get the distributor to ship you a sheet or 2 to try.

It seems like baltic birch should come from several places which are not Russia. Are there alternate distributors at a more reasonable price? Other FSC equivalents for a void-free thin-ply product?

Thanks for your project!

https://www.investwood.pt/en/valchromat/

 

[carbidetooth]

I'm doing my first home speaker build now, with the Swan HiVi 3.1A kit, along with a crossover overhaul. I've been involving my six year old daughter as much as I can to try to get her interested, and this has been a great kit so far, straight forward and seems to provide a lot of bang for the buck.

Would really like to see what you're doing, can you share your YouTube channel?

Peter Rawlings

Share your videos with friends, family, and the world

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[carbidetooth]

There is a small UK mastering studio that DIYed their own speaker and now are selling it complete. It has very high end drivers and is an active speaker, so it is up there in price.

They settled on a through-color MDF like material with more resin, called Valchromat. If you have the time, I would be interested in what you find about US distribution, price, machinability, and sound for a speaker. Maybe you can get the distributor to ship you a sheet or 2 to try.

It seems like baltic birch should come from several places which are not Russia. Are there alternate distributors at a more reasonable price? Other FSC equivalents for a void-free thin-ply product?

Thanks for your project!

https://www.investwood.pt/en/valchromat/

I know Valchromat a little. A few years ago, I was at a Vectric software seminar, and they had samples. In terms of sonic qualities, I doubt it's extraordinary in any appreciable way. A novel manufacturing process is their calling card. Density and bonding resin seemed similar to a product I know...Medex. It was pretty darn expensive @ around $300 for 4x8 sheet to which you'd add motor freight. To minimize shipping cost, full bunk quantities would be the way to go. There would have to be one hell of demand for me to go there. As far as the thru-color qualities, the edges will still look different than the face. I'm not an acoustician nor do I aspire to be, but IMHO, there is no magic in box material. A well braced cabinet made from dense material can be had far cheaper. My aim is to nurture the DIY market, not to become a speaker manufacturer.

To the best of my knowledge, all true Baltic Birch comes from the region to the east (Baltic States) of Russia as well as Russia proper. It is unique in both the content and manufacturing process. There have been some domestically produced, similarly constructed products, Appleply comes to mind. If supply doesn't exist at my local distributors, shipping becomes a real factor. Bamboo products fall into the same category.

I haven't really kept track, but I'd guess X-LS Baltic Birch cabinets to be around 15% of what I send out. Because of that, I have to assume overall cost is a mitigating concern for most builders. I suspect the lion's share of demand is for a "people's speaker". In all fairness, there is direct competition from the ready-made, China produced commercial products so it's more a "I built it" scenario than a cost saving one.

 

[mcdn]

So is your plan to select 2 or 3 designs, such as directiva, and produce quality flat packs in volumes of low hundreds for sale to DIYers?

I’d certainly be in the market for that as making cabinets is by far the hardest part of DIY speaker building.

 

[Moonbase]

Plywood here in the UK is often very poor quality due to the amount of voids hidden within the layers. In the building trade OSB3 is available and has no voids. Further it's produced within the UK rather than China or Russia. Not sure if it's available or called something else in the US? I wonder if this is good for building speakers?

 

[carbidetooth]

So is your plan to select 2 or 3 designs, such as directiva, and produce quality flat packs in volumes of low hundreds for sale to DIYers?

I’d certainly be in the market for that as making cabinets is by far the hardest part of DIY speaker building.

Yes, kind of. I committed to the X-LS project and continue to supply, but the components eat up space in my shop and the demand has diminished considerably so inventory languishes. I think the way forward would be limited production, perhaps 50 pairs, with some front-end demand before I start making sawdust. I really don't want to turn shop into warehouse, nor get stuck with a bunch of precut parts.

 

[carbidetooth]

Plywood here in the UK is often very poor quality due to the amount of voids hidden within the layers. In the building trade OSB3 is available and has no voids. Further it's produced within the UK rather than China or Russia. Not sure if it's available or called something else in the US? I wonder if this is good for building speakers?

OSB is certainly available here. The hard part is it's not really a good cabinet making material. Inconsistent in thickness, surface flatness and appearance. Hard to finish in what most people would consider acceptable to put in their homes. That said, I've thought of building a pair as a sort of experiment to see what could be done. Time will tell. Might make for a good video.

 

[Cal_Cobra]

Peter Rawlings

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Nice work! god knows I don't need anymore speakers, but I like building them, so I'm definitely in the interested club. I guess some pricing and whatnot would be helpful. TIA!

 

[carbidetooth]

Nice work! god knows I don't need anymore speakers, but I like building them, so I'm definitely in the interested club. I guess some pricing and whatnot would be helpful. TIA!

You and me both! If you're interested in X-LS Encore, you can email me via addy in all my video descriptions or PM me here. If you're referring to potential future products, those have yet to be defined, so I really have nothing to offer.

 

[Ktacos]

I would be very interested in a CNC'd BMR based three way cabinet. Should I PM you? My desire to cut wood has largely left me so I'm looking to have someone else do it with CNC level precision. I'm also curious if you can do layered cabinets, as in layers that can be stacked vertically to build up the cabinet. I'm looking for fairly large round overs.

 

[carbidetooth]

I would be very interested in a CNC'd BMR based three way cabinet. Should I PM you? My desire to cut wood has largely left me so I'm looking to have someone else do it with CNC level precision. I'm also curious if you can do layered cabinets, as in layers that can be stacked vertically to build up the cabinet. I'm looking for fairly large round overs.

Sure, PM me if you like. I can make most anything including stacked laminations. Bear in mind with my "mini mass production" methodology I can spread the cost of development and prototyping over many pieces. With one-offs that economy of scale is nonexistent, and one is paying for the whole enchilada in a single chunk.

 

[mcdn]

Directiva cabinets do seem the obvious first choice. No crossovers to worry about, a proven design and easy to take to market through this forum.

For a quality reference the kits from Linkwitz.store are made to superb tolerances from HDF, and while not cheap are good value. They are mainly flat panels with biscuit joints. They do need finishing but even a klutz like me can get a good result with some sanding filler and a few coats of spray enamel.

 

[carbidetooth]

Some potentially good news concerning Baltic Birch type plywood. My preferred distributor is now stocking a very similar product that apparently comes from Vietnam, of all places! The less good news is that 18mm thickness only available in 5'x10' sheets, with the grain strangely running across the narrow dimension. My router can handle up to 5'x8', so I have to lop off 2' just to get it on the table. Also weird is that it's sanded against the grain, which might pose a problem for those who wish to clear finish the bare Birch. I've got a project (not speakers) that I'll use to evaluate and see where that takes me.
Photos show the mentioned qualities. Old stuff in front on photo showing cut pieces and edges for comparison.

 

[Roland68]

OSB is certainly available here. The hard part is it's not really a good cabinet making material. Inconsistent in thickness, surface flatness and appearance. Hard to finish in what most people would consider acceptable to put in their homes. That said, I've thought of building a pair as a sort of experiment to see what could be done. Time will tell. Might make for a good video.

OSB is unsuitable for loudspeaker construction because it is permeable to air.

 

[carbidetooth]

OSB is unsuitable for loudspeaker construction because it is permeable to air.

My thought would be to surface thicker material and subsequently coat with epoxy resulting in a mottled look but a smooth surface. I've played with the technique, but never on speakers. This might surprise some, but I pull vacuum right through an MDF spoilboard for the hold down mechanism on the router and it's surprisingly strong.

 

[Roland68]

My thought would be to surface thicker material and subsequently coat with epoxy resulting in a mottled look but a smooth surface. I've played with the technique, but never on speakers. This might surprise some, but I pull vacuum right through an MDF spoilboard for the hold down mechanism on the router and it's surprisingly strong.

MDF is many times denser than OSB. In the construction industry, the air permeability of OSB is a real problem in many places and many (expensive) processes to eliminate this fail in the long run. Surface coatings in particular tend to peel off again over time.
The price difference to MDF also does not justify the subsequent effort in loudspeaker/housing construction.

 

[AlmaAtaKZ]

I would think cabinet building would be a problem for many wannabe diy speaker builders - due to lack of suitable space, tools ans skills. I certainly fall into this category, living in a small flat in a large city. I would need access to either a supervised workshop or an affordable custom cabinet builder.

 

[Duke]

Some potentially good news concerning Baltic Birch type plywood. My preferred distributor is now stocking a very similar product that apparently comes from Vietnam, of all places! The less good news is that 18mm thickness only available in 5'x10' sheets, with the grain strangely running across the narrow dimension. My router can handle up to 5'x8', so I have to lop off 2' just to get it on the table. Also weird is that it's sanded against the grain, which might pose a problem for those who wish to clear finish the bare Birch. I've got a project (not speakers) that I'll use to evaluate and see where that takes me.
Photos show the mentioned qualities. Old stuff in front on photo showing cut pieces and edges for comparison.

Have you actually eyeballed it? If not, can you request a sample? I bought some plywood with essentially the same description sight-unseen and it turned out to have paper-thin outer plies that peeled up fairly easily.