Buckeye Amps: New US based Hypex multichannel amplifier builder, line-up announcement!

[Jdunk54nl]

Obviously, different speakers/distances can impact level match. When I use all 28db gain amps with the Denon 4700 in multi-channel stereo mode (after Audyssey config) the sound level meter matches well as I move from speaker to speaker. However, with Purifi amp on fronts in multi-channel mode, fronts consistently measure 1-2db lower in various music passages compared to the Monolith amp powered speakers (7.2.4 setup). Audyssey level match shows compensation has been made for the 26.5db gain Purifi amp but the sound level meter still indicated a volume mismatch. Once I moved back to Monolith amps for all channels the issue disappeared.

Only in Multi-Channel stereo are all speakers playing the same source and simply duplicating it across five pairs of speakers. That's where you have the best opportunity to detect level match differences with a sound level meter.

Can you actually hear that 1-2db difference when music is playing? That would be very impressive if you could. For most people, that would be below the threshold of detecting a difference and would make zero difference for them.

Can you also adjust individual channel levels after processing in the Denon? If so bump up those channels a couple or bump down the other ones? "Problem" would be easily solved. I have never used a Denon so not sure. On the brands I have used though, that was always possible, and I have because the auto setup didn't do the best job.

 

[JonfromCB]

So, some *BIG* news in the works: I am in the process of potentially hiring an employee. They would not be assembling the amps, so everything will still be put together to my standards. But my hopes would be to have someone help pre-wire/pre-terminate cables to speed up amp assembly. For instance, if I have extra wires made up, a 2ch amp assembly is roughly 1hr. But if I have to start from scratch it can take up to 2.5hrs.

The other goal would be to finally get a website going, which an extra set of hands would be beneficial for.

It is still very early in the process, so existing orders are not going to be sped up yet. But thanks to all you dedicated and appreciative customers, I should be taking the next step to grow more.

Congratulations. Glad to hear it. I like the way you think and much encouragement. Anecdote: my wife was working 30 hours a week while driving 3 hours one way three times a week to get her first PhD...people told her it was not possible and it couldn't be done. She did it. Then while workinig full time as a professor she also opened and expanded her private practice while driving an hour and a half one way three times a week to complete her second PhD... many of the same people said they knew she could do it. lol 8 years later she works her hours and gets a lot more sleep. Succeed young man, succeed.

 

[JonfromCB]

Can you actually hear that 1-2db difference when music is playing? That would be very impressive if you could. For most people, that would be below the threshold of detecting a difference and would make zero difference for them.

Can you also adjust individual channel levels after processing in the Denon? If so bump up those channels a couple or bump down the other ones? "Problem" would be easily solved. I have never used a Denon so not sure. On the brands I have used though, that was always possible, and I have because the auto setup didn't do the best job.

My understanding is humans with good hearing can detect variances as small as 1/10th of a db. a corrected 1-2 db or even bigger difference between eq'd front speakers could actually be a very balanced and cohesive soundstage....likewise a very small db difference between fronts or a stereo pair that are out-of-balance and without a cohesive soundstage at the listening position would be immediately noticable to most experienced listeners. A good C weighted meter reading from the listening position is the best way to confirm and adjust channel balance after running/applying correction and is a good practice for achieving the most accurate soundstage from the equipment.

 

[Jdunk54nl]

My understanding is humans with good hearing can detect variances as small as 1/10th of a db. a corrected 1-2 db or even bigger difference between eq'd front speakers could actually be a very balanced and cohesive soundstage....likewise a very small db difference between fronts or a stereo pair that are out-of-balance and without a cohesive soundstage at the listening position would be immediately noticable to most experienced listeners. A good C weighted meter reading from the listening position is the best way to confirm and adjust channel balance after running/applying correction and is a good practice for achieving the most accurate soundstage from the equipment.

I don't know. I've got to some decent levels (at least level 7 on every test) on Harmans how to listen program. I have some friends currently getting a masters in acoustics and is really into pyschoacoustics and has done tests on his friends now.

When I try to detect small changes in music (either q or level) it gets super hard. 6db and I'm pretty good. 3db and I start missing stuff. Below that and a lot of times its a Crap shoot. There is a frequency range where we get better at it, but it is still hard when level changes get below 3db.

But don't take my word for it. Try out the Harman how to listen app. You can control db level change and as levels go up, q gets smaller.
http://harmanhowtolisten.blogspot.com/?m=1

 

[DonH56]

In rapid switching 0.1 dB or so louder is perceived as "better" by most folk. But in normal life, just adjusting the volume up and down whilst listening, changing the volume by 1 dB is undetectable. Similarly, in rapid switching comparison testing, broad differences in frequency response of 1 - 2 dB can be reliably detected, but if you listen to two speakers with that little difference and no other changes in a conventional listening situation it is almost impossible to detect.

All of which has nothing to do with Buckeye Amps...

 

[Jdunk54nl]

All of which has nothing to do with Buckeye Amps...

It at least makes it so people aren't afraid to mix Buckeye amps with other amps. (Although still, most AVR's or Pre/Pro's should be able to account for the level differences either via auto setup or manually after.)

 

[AdamG]

I have three different amps connected and channels trimmed to be equal loudness by Audyssey. A 9.2.6 arrangement. In play a Buckeye 502, 6ch amp, Emotiva XPA-5 and the remaining height channels driven by a Denon 8500h. Using a UMIK and REW to check levels post calibration I found all channels well matched to within +/- 1 db. I was originally concerned about the varying gain structures would create problems with sound levels. Audyssey was able to make them all play just fine with each other.

Having an AVR that can set individual channel trim and distance is critical to making the process seamless. I have yet to notice any clipping or distortion in all but one movie. This specific movie has backed in Distortion and major clipping. I actually use it as a standard for detecting distortion and clipping by ear. TENET. Other than that the inclusion of a Buckeye amp into the mix has been completely painless.

 

[anevard]

... I have yet to notice any clipping or distortion in all but one movie. This specific movie has backed in Distortion and major clipping. I actually use it as a standard for detecting distortion and clipping by ear. TENET. Other than that the inclusion of a Buckeye amp into the mix has been completely painless.

Is there anything that can be done about this, other than just lowering the volume? Do you attribute this to not perfectly matched amp gain structures or just an extremely high dynamic range film?

 

[AdamG]

Is there anything that can be done about this, other than just lowering the volume? Do you attribute this to not perfectly matched amp gain structures or just an extremely high dynamic range film?

As you can see below is the master audio tracks for the movie Tenet. Any and all RED indicates the source master audio signal is hard clipping. No matter what you do with volume/gain in the reproduction process will eliminate this clipping and resulting distortion. It’s Baked into the master. Same goes for the movie Dunkirk. Another totally clipped audio track by Nolan.

 

[anevard]

It’s Baked into the master. Same goes for the movie Dunkirk. Another totally clipped audio track by Nolan.

In the past, when I was involved with film post-production, we had to provide different mixes for DVD, TV, theatrical. Often the theatrical mix would just be run through a limiter as a less expensive way of creating the lower dynamic range mixes for TV and DVD. I wonder if his mixes are just not properly remastered for streaming/blu-ray, or if they really care.

 

[JonfromCB]

I don't know. I've got to some decent levels (at least level 7 on every test) on Harmans how to listen program. I have some friends currently getting a masters in acoustics and is really into pyschoacoustics and has done tests on his friends now.

When I try to detect small changes in music (either q or level) it gets super hard. 6db and I'm pretty good. 3db and I start missing stuff. Below that and a lot of times its a Crap shoot. There is a frequency range where we get better at it, but it is still hard when level changes get below 3db.

But don't take my word for it. Try out the Harman how to listen app. You can control db level change and as levels go up, q gets smaller.
http://harmanhowtolisten.blogspot.com/?m=1

I get it and don't disagree. Hearing is not just about volume or frequency. Training is good and certainly can teach us "things" to listen for and how to listen for them. It all comes down to the aural acuity of the listener. I've had repeated hearing and inner ear/eye response workups over the last few years. Although my hearing loss is considered "normal" for my age (64), it was helpful to learn that my loss is bilateral on the left side and in a fairly narrow range at the high end of the human voice (left ear exposed to too many close HF crash cymbol hits over 40 years most likely). Point is any hearing impairment is helpful to know about and it might be worth checking out. Even with the "dropouts" in a known frequency range in my left ear, I can easily detect speaker volume variations in my system well below 1/2 db...as confirmed by my meter and multiple hearing tests at a leading hearing research hospital (Boys Town).

 

[AdamG]

In the past, when I was involved with film post-production, we had to provide different mixes for DVD, TV, theatrical. Often the theatrical mix would just be run through a limiter as a less expensive way of creating the lower dynamic range mixes for TV and DVD. I wonder if his mixes are just not properly remastered for streaming/blu-ray, or if they really care.

IMHO this is the movie side of the “Loudness Wars” in music. Could be the Chicken or the Egg question. Where did the Loudness War start? Music or Movie industry? The question now is irrelevant, since there exists evidence it has emerged in both segments. In this particular case I can’t answer your question about this just being a bad remaster for Blu-ray. However, Nolan’s other massive clipped audio is ever present in Dunkirk. The sound graphic is even worse than the one I posted above. So if he screwed up by mistake, he did it again in his immediate next film release. You can make of that what you want.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

IMHO this is the movie side of the “Loudness Wars” in music. Could be the Chicken or the Egg question. Where did the Loudness War start? Music or Movie industry? The question now is irrelevant, since there exists evidence it has emerged in both segments. In this particular case I can’t answer your question about this just being a bad remaster for Blu-ray. However, Nolan’s other massive clipped audio is ever present in Dunkirk. The sound graphic is even worse than the one I posted above. So if he screwed up by mistake, he did it again in his immediate next film release. You can make of that what you want.

From my experience when I worked in film sound, there really wasn't any overt attempt to compress the dynamic range of mixes to make them 'louder' - they had no problem being loud when they wanted to. In the days of optical soundtracks, the dynamic range was such that limiting was necessary to avoid physical damage to the light valves used in the recording process. This was usually done in the transfer process from magnetic film to optical.

On dubbing stages during mixes, I never saw the use of compressors or limiters. Other effects, yes, but not limiting.

 

[diablo900t]

I just put a deposit down on an amp and I know it only has XLR in. My Yamaha A3070 only has RCA outs. Would something like this work OK? Or should I get a dedicated XLR to RCA cable:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07X9KKPMP/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_fabc_3TFPE81QH6Y3G98JDZME?psc=1

 

[amper42]

These work well for me. I would shy away from adapters.
Monoprice 6ft Premier Series XLR Male to RCA Male Cable, 16AWG (Gold Plated)
Product # 4777
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=4777

 

[Buckeye Amps]

These work well for me. I would shy away from adapters.
Monoprice 6ft Premier Series XLR Male to RCA Male Cable, 16AWG (Gold Plated)
Product # 4777
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=4777

These! They are wired correctly for RCA to XLR. And good quality for the price

 

[AdamG]

FYI and follow up post with another audio graph of Nolan’s “Dunkirk”. The graph speaks for itself.
Dunkirk

https://imgur.com/8jkQjau

 

[Vince2]

These work well for me. I would shy away from adapters.
Monoprice 6ft Premier Series XLR Male to RCA Male Cable, 16AWG (Gold Plated)
Product # 4777
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=4777

Let me add my experience. In my situation these cables caused a ground loop hum, just plugged in the xlr cable with no source connected. Nothing helped too mitigate this so I had to go to a xlr source and that removed the hum. My amp is an 8 channel 252mp

 

[diablo900t]

Let me add my experience. In my situation these cables caused a ground loop hum, just plugged in the xlr cable with no source connected. Nothing helped too mitigate this so I had to go to a xlr source and that removed the hum. My amp is an 8 channel 252mp

Crap, that's what I'm afraid of. I guess I will find out. I have a Crown amp that I'm using RCA cables with and it has a noticeable hum and buzz. I'll see how these fare once I get them.

 

[Rottmannash]

Crap, that's what I'm afraid of. I guess I will find out. I have a Crown amp that I'm using RCA cables with and it has a noticeable hum and buzz. I'll see how these fare once I get them.

I'm using these from my Onkyo AVR RCA out to the XLR in of the Buckeye amp and there is no buzz or hum. I wouldn't fear using them with the Buckeye amp.