BMR Tower vs Revel F328Be Compared

[R Swerdlow]

While I understand the MTM issue, the RAAL tweeter is noticeably more directional than the Revel F328Be tweeter. I can replace the BMR Towers with the BMR Monitor with RAAL tweeter and it's evident the RAAL sounds best when the listener's ear is at the same height as the RAAL. The F328Be tweeter implementation is audibly less sensitive to the height of the listener's ear.

I don't doubt your listener's impressions. But, so far, I don't see measurements that support them.

Your original post contained this REW comparison of the BMR Towers (in red) and the Revel F328Be (in green). Above 7 kHz, both tweeters display essentially similar roll off patterns in SPL. This is consistent with James Larson's graph of the BMR Tower.

If the differences you hear were due to tweeters, I would expect to see them in their upper octaves of audio range.

 

[amper42]

If the differences you hear were due to tweeters, I would expect to see them in their upper octaves of audio range.

The UMIK was placed exactly at the sitting ear level for those measurements - which is level with the RAAL height. If I was trying to have REW measure a difference in the two tweeters while vertically off axis the UMIK should be moved to a standing height of the ear.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

You're both right. Most of the difference in timbre you hear when you stand up is coming from the MTM configuration. But obviously a 64 mm tall ribbon tweeter will have more restricted vertical dispersion than 25 mm dome unless the wave guide is restricting vertical dispersion substantially, which I don't believe is the case with the Revel. Whether or not restricted vertical dispersion is a plus or a minus is very much unsettled territory. Floyd Toole just throws up his hands when he's asked about this. I don't want people to get the impression that the towers can't be enjoyed while standing up. They sound fine from a normal listening distance. They're not like a big panel speaker or electrostatic where the highs just start to disappear when you stand up.

 

[Jdunk54nl]

You're both right. Most of the difference in timbre you hear when you stand up is coming from the MTM configuration. But obviously a 64 mm tall ribbon tweeter will have more restricted vertical dispersion than 25 mm dome unless the wave guide is restricting vertical dispersion substantially, which I don't believe is the case with the Revel. Whether or not restricted vertical dispersion is a plus or a minus is very much unsettled territory. Floyd Toole just throws up his hands when he's asked about this. I don't want people to get the impression that the towers can't be enjoyed while standing up. They sound fine from a normal listening distance. They're not like a big panel speaker or electrostatic where the highs just start to disappear when you stand up.

Mine even sound amazing in my bedroom (around the corner) folding laundry, or sitting outside with the windows open doing work

 

[McFly]

You're both right. Most of the difference in timbre you hear when you stand up is coming from the MTM configuration. But obviously a 64 mm tall ribbon tweeter will have more restricted vertical dispersion than 25 mm dome unless the wave guide is restricting vertical dispersion substantially, which I don't believe is the case with the Revel. Whether or not restricted vertical dispersion is a plus or a minus is very much unsettled territory. Floyd Toole just throws up his hands when he's asked about this. I don't want people to get the impression that the towers can't be enjoyed while standing up. They sound fine from a normal listening distance. They're not like a big panel speaker or electrostatic where the highs just start to disappear when you stand up.

People like to be critical. I think you've done an amazing job with the BMR Tower. If I could hear a pair down here in NZ, I would. And the cabinets look amazing. Take a bow. And sell many.

Re vertical dispersion - the jury is most certainly still out. My ELI5 take on it is - we like to watch in widescreen, and our ears probably like to hear the same way. Wide horizontal and narrow vertical should sound the most natural. Who'd doing jumping jacks when listening to their music? We sit down and listen. Outdoors has no ceiling, and sounds the best IMO.

 

[Lsc]

I think while you can compare any two speakers, these speakers aren’t really comparable unless you want to qualify everything.

 

[tktran303]

I’ve heard the F328Be.


Have the tweeter height matched and maximum SPL level level matched and I suspect the differences are much smaller.

Run them full close to full tilt without a subwoofer and the one with triple 8” woofers will sound more “effortless”; for lack of a better word.

My 2 cents: the in room response is incomplete, as a explanation of audible differences. You need a spinrorama, but even then it is only slightly less complete- differences are best explained by the sensitivity differences and the tweeter height.

For those with deeper pockets; triple the price, I think Dennis could smash one out of the park if he followed a typical WWWMT cone/dome design

 

[Lsc]

I have a great deal of respect for Dennis Murphy and I was looking at his speakers going back a few years.

I’m not sure if he would have an advantage over the team of engineers at Revel along with their resources. It’s one thing to produce speakers costing $16,000 / pair…it’s another to be able to sell them and make a profit.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

I have a great deal of respect for Dennis Murphy and I was looking at his speakers going back a few years.

I’m not sure if he would have an advantage over the team of engineers at Revel along with their resources. It’s one thing to produce speakers costing $16,000 / pair…it’s another to be able to sell them and make a profit.

I can't imagine I know anything that that the Revel engineers don't know. The issue here, if there is one, is value and design philosophy--what qualities are you trying to emphasize? My priority is to achieve the broadest and most even horizontal radiation as possible without resorting to a wave wave guide for the even part. Plus I like to provide deep bass response at a reasonable cost even if that means sacrificing sensitivity and power handling.

 

[Lsc]

I can't imagine I know anything that that the Revel engineers don't know. The issue here, if there is one, is value and design philosophy--what qualities are you trying to emphasize? My priority is to achieve the broadest and most even horizontal radiation as possible without resorting to a wave wave guide for the even part. Plus I like to provide deep bass response at a reasonable cost even if that means sacrificing sensitivity and power handling.

Like I said I have a ton of respect for you and your speakers.

I’m nowhere near you or even any engineer. I’m an end user ie consumer of goods. The best thing I like about Revels in general and more specifically my salons is that they are dynamic, have great bass and sound very natural. The models with beryllium tweeters like my salons and the F228Be that I used to have, I can listen to them loud (sometimes very loud) without any fatigue. Also, they make great, capable center channels to go with their main speakers so they are equally good for movies and music.

 

[FrantzM]

A bit of perpective ..
The BMR towers are $4,000 , likely to your doostep in the USA. The Revel 328Be, is perhaps $15K to your doorstep. Knowing wat we know now of both companies, this is an accomplishment for the BMR Towers, to be in a comparison with the Revel 328Be .... and to hold its own.
With a budget of $15K. You can have a pair of BMR plus a quartet of serious subwoofers , the lot DSP-corrected by a very knowledgeable person, no-less, resulting in a top-flight SOTA, speaker system that could rival/challenge the Revel 328Be, perhaps not in SPL but everywhere else. You may even have money left for a serious AVR like the Denon X-4700. That is how good and in the face of it, cost-effective, the BMR Towers are. Even in this Science-leaning forum, the bias is present... Genelec, Revel, Neuman, JBL... is the knee-jerk reaction when it comes to speakers. it is true that these companies produce good to superlative products, BMR belongs to that group of compagnies that produce excellent products. They deserve serious considerations and more mentions.

Peace.

 

[Randy Bessinger]

I will add one thing to this discussion. BMRs are packed and shipped to withstand the rigors of FedEx and UPS. They all arrived undamaged. The Revels I bought were not packaged all that well and one was damaged. It took me months to try to get one replaced only to be told no ETA on when I could expect a replacement. They were sent directly from Harman. I didn’t buy the 328’s so perhaps the extra 11k gets you better packaging (and better service)

Dennis has always been available as he is here.

P.S. I will say the dealer on the Revels was great…he could only do so much. I sold the Revels.

 

[sdiver68]

A bit of perpective ..
The BMR towers are $4,000 , likely to your doostep in the USA. The Revel 328Be, is perhaps $15K to your doorstep. Knowing wat we know now of both companies, this is an accomplishment for the BMR Towers, to be in a comparison with the Revel 328Be .... and to hold its own.
With a budget of $15K. You can have a pair of BMR plus a quartet of serious subwoofers , the lot DSP-corrected by a very knowledgeable person, no-less, resulting in a top-flight SOTA, speaker system that could rival/challenge the Revel 328Be, perhaps not in SPL but everywhere else. You may even have money left for a serious AVR like the Denon X-4700. That is how good and in the face of it, cost-effective, the BMR Towers are. Even in this Science-leaning forum, the bias is present... Genelec, Revel, Neuman, JBL... is the knee-jerk reaction when it comes to speakers. it is true that these companies produce good to superlative products, BMR belongs to that group of compagnies that produce excellent products. They deserve serious considerations and more mentions.

Peace.

Except if we are doing this, F206/208 have to be considered...completely negating or even favoring Revel offerings in the price category.

Objectively, it's hard to see in the data where the Be build adds much to the F series. Subjectively some people say night and day but I cannot comment since I've not heard them next to each other. And not seen any true ABX comparisons.

 

[Lsc]

Except if we are doing this, F206/208 have to be considered...completely negating or even favoring Revel offerings in the price category.

Objectively, it's hard to see in the data where the Be build adds much to the F series. Subjectively some people say night and day but I cannot comment since I've not heard them in next to each other. And not seen any true ABX comparisons.

I agree that is probably a better comparison. I’d love to try the BMRs at some point but I’m very satisfied with my speakers.

Having owned both the F208 and the F228Be, the F228Be is clearly superior sound wise as it should be. But because it’s based on the same cabinet design, the value is questionable. And I had both in my possession for several weeks before I sold the F208.

Having said that, the F208 is an outstanding speaker so the law diminishing returns hits hard here. A person really has to feel that these small improvements here and there are worth double the price.

 

[Tom C]

It’s been a while since I looked at the video, but it seems to me Dr. Toole mentioned something like a Revel F36 as being just at the point of diminishing returns for their line up.

 

[Rottmannash]

I agree that is probably a better comparison. I’d love to try the BMRs at some point but I’m very satisfied with my speakers.

Having owned both the F208 and the F228Be, the F228Be is clearly superior sound wise as it should be. But because it’s based on the same cabinet design, the value is questionable. And I had both in my possession for several weeks before I sold the F208.

Having said that, the F208 is an outstanding speaker so the law diminishing returns hits hard here. A person really has to feel that these small improvements here and there are worth double the price.

When I auditioned the F208's (which I bought) I didn't even listen to the 228Be's-I knew it would drain my wallet because I wouldn't have been able to resist.

 

[Lsc]

When I auditioned the F208's (which I bought) I didn't even listen to the 228Be's-I knew it would drain my wallet because I wouldn't have been able to resist.

Hahahaha. That’s exactly what happened to me. I heard the F228Be at Axpona and thought wow…this sound quality is right at the Salon2/Studio2 level and had to go to a dealer to listen to it. Then I got a little irritated at first because it seemed like I literally bought the same speaker - the aesthetics was a real bummer even though I knew it going in, when you see that at the house it looks no better than the F208 which I personally think looks great for the price!!! But double the price…I’d like something a little more than a painted top cap. Then Revel came out with the 328Be a few months after I got the F228Be…ouch.

I actually regret selling my F208. I should have kept it and used it as my surrounds…it was my first pair of “high end” speakers and made me a Revel customer for life.

 

[kenimaru]

They are great for music though.

That's what they are for...?

 

[TREVANIAN]

I got a chance to listen the bmr monitor sized ones, here in AZ recently with some other brands and I was very impressed with it.

 

[Jdunk54nl]

I got a chance to listen the bmr monitor sized ones, here in AZ recently with some other brands and I was very impressed with it.

Are you in AZ? Phoenix Area too? I ask because I was also at that event and we have another (free) monthly meetup group that meets and talks about audio. A lot of us are into more of the complete home theatre and 2 channel audio stuff (as well as car, boat, utv, etc audio...basically anything with the ability to play audio). PM me if you are interested in joining and meeting up monthly!