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BMR Tower vs Revel F328Be Compared

jcarys

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I'm powering mine with buckeye 502mp modules and using an htp-1 that easily can hit the power limits of those modules.
I have also done a lot of the Harman how to listen (level 8+ on all of their tests) as well as other a/b/x blind tests and have scored outside of statistical anomaly's in those a/b/x tests. So I can hear the differences. I only say this to tell you the following, so take the above with a grain of salt.

In my couple days of listening at really loud volumes (just to test things out), the bmr's are not showing any signs of distortion. I used the decibel x app on my iPhone with z weighting and my average listening volume was 88db with peaks up high 90's.
This is a listening distance of 11ft and 12ft from the right/left speaker.
Well one person says they can't hit reference levels, and another owner is perfectly happy. (Although THX reference was never intended for home theater.) If they can do high 90db peaks, that's plenty loud for my house. And my setup is more like 9-10 feet so that gains even a bit more. Like I said, I hope to get a chance to hear them at Axpona or some other show in the near future.
 

Jdunk54nl

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Well one person says they can't hit reference levels, and another owner is perfectly happy. (Although THX reference was never intended for home theater.) If they can do high 90db peaks, that's plenty loud for my house. And my setup is more like 9-10 feet so that gains even a bit more. Like I said, I hope to get a chance to hear them at Axpona or some other show in the near future.
Ya, I don't need them to hit 105db, that is stupid loud. High 90's was already getting uncomfortable after one or two songs. I value my hearing too much too. I want to be able to enjoy these for DECADES to come, not just a few years.

Note, mine will get used for tv, movies, music, etc. I use them for everything. Last night we watched Into the Heights and it was super awesome with these.
 

nerdoldnerdith

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Ya, I don't need them to hit 105db, that is stupid loud. High 90's was already getting uncomfortable after one or two songs. I value my hearing too much too. I want to be able to enjoy these for DECADES to come, not just a few years.

Note, mine will get used for tv, movies, music, etc. I use them for everything. Last night we watched Into the Heights and it was super awesome with these.
Loud means different things in different contexts. When we talk about reference levels in movies or certain pieces of classical music, we are talking about very loud peaks of 100+dB that only last for a fraction of a second and only come up occasionally. Most music doesn't have the same kind of dynamic range, so listening at 90dB or whatever will seem loud because it is a relatively large amount of energy being continuously pumped into the room.

These speakers don't get loud enough to do justice to the very dynamic content in movies that make them come alive in a proper system. It's just the way it is.

They are great for music though.
 

Jdunk54nl

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Loud means different things in different contexts. When we talk about reference levels in movies or certain pieces of classical music, we are talking about very loud peaks of 100+dB that only last for a fraction of a second and only come up occasionally. Most music doesn't have the same kind of dynamic range, so listening at 90dB or whatever will seem loud because it is a relatively large amount of energy being continuously pumped into the room.

These speakers don't get loud enough to do justice to the very dynamic content in movies that make them come alive in a proper system. It's just the way it is.

They are great for music though.
Considering the old version of the BMR monitor that Erin reviewed hit the long term spl threshold at 99db via compression in the tweeter (at least that is what it looks like if I am reading the graph correctly), and these new ones are a couple db more sensitive (83db vs 86db), and the tweeter is a different model to improve things, I think it would be able to get close to 105db, at least close enough that you probably wouldn't notice much difference. Not to mention that the towers should be able to handle power even better.

Link to the old BMR review by Erin.
 

Randy Bessinger

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I will only add that hearing damage is cumulative. Just because it is not a problem in your 40’s and 50’s doesn’t mean it won’t affect you when you are 75 (My age). A bunch of us were over at Sheldon’s house and Michael of High Impact AV ( I think Jeff from JTR was there or upstairs) was playing above reference. It was the first time I have experienced pain in my ears (and had to leave the room) and I attended Cream concerts and other very loud Rock concerts in the 70’s.

I do get the dynamic range thing, but part of that limitation comes up with how high you have the volume set. For me, the BMR towers are plenty loud with plenty of dynamic range as long as you are not in a very huge room and listen to dialog at just a reasonably loud level.

I will add that my opinion is just that and people can listen and set the volume however they want. I do hate statements that say, hey don’t get these speakers because “my listening volume should be yours” That said, I currently have Perlisten (R5Ts) and BMR’s (Towers and monitors). Different speakers as far as how loud you can go crazy with.

When I had Procellas in my KC theater and they were tested by some of the KC guys, they were starting to peter out at THX reference levels despite being THX certified for large rooms. Because of that and by the tests of the KC guys, I went with JTR’s. I really liked the speakers but honestly it was probably a waste of $$. The Procellas were fine and played way louder than I ever really needed. Again, just my 2 cents.
 
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Randy Bessinger

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I don't think my ears ever really stopped ringing after being pushed by the crowd up to the front wall of speakers at a Mountain concert in 1973
May Leslie West RIP, he was a really good guitarist who had a tough time with diabetes.
 

jcarys

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Loud means different things in different contexts. When we talk about reference levels in movies or certain pieces of classical music, we are talking about very loud peaks of 100+dB that only last for a fraction of a second and only come up occasionally. Most music doesn't have the same kind of dynamic range, so listening at 90dB or whatever will seem loud because it is a relatively large amount of energy being continuously pumped into the room.

These speakers don't get loud enough to do justice to the very dynamic content in movies that make them come alive in a proper system. It's just the way it is.

They are great for music though.
I have researched my system volume levels with a SPL meter many times. Turning up the system to what I consider annoyingly loud, but not painful, I have never seen a 100db spike, at 10 feet from the fronts. Maybe a LFE explosion every now and then, but that's why the sub is there. I will concede that the BMRs may not be enough in a really big room or listening far away, but they seem more than adequate to me even for home theater. If you can point me to a classical recording or a movie with an over 100db peak, I'd love to test it.
 

Everett T

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I have researched my system volume levels with a SPL meter many times. Turning up the system to what I consider annoyingly loud, but not painful, I have never seen a 100db spike, at 10 feet from the fronts. Maybe a LFE explosion every now and then, but that's why the sub is there. I will concede that the BMRs may not be enough in a really big room or listening far away, but they seem more than adequate to me even for home theater. If you can point me to a classical recording or a movie with an over 100db peak, I'd love to test it.
That's quite normal for most people. It applies to me most of the time and when it dosen't, the room dictates it. Reference level (thx) is a goal, not a function of normality with must of us.
 

TurtlePaul

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I think the volume discussion started not to be a weakness of the BMRs. They are loud enough to be most things for most people. I certainly would never need louder as I live in an apartment in a city.

The discussion started because the question is what you are getting for the money when you look at the F328Be. With 3x the number of high-quality 8" woofers you are paying for THX reference levels to be possible at 3+ meters. 96 dB @ 1 meter isn't even close to upsetting the woofers - they are barely above 1% THD even in the 30 hz range. Is this useful? Amir had positive comments on the bass quality in his subjective impressions of the F328Be. Some would say that bass distortion below 3% is not audible, others may disagree - I don't know. I also imagine that there is some time in some room that this level of bass volume is called upon (although not in my room).

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nerdoldnerdith

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I have researched my system volume levels with a SPL meter many times. Turning up the system to what I consider annoyingly loud, but not painful, I have never seen a 100db spike, at 10 feet from the fronts. Maybe a LFE explosion every now and then, but that's why the sub is there. I will concede that the BMRs may not be enough in a really big room or listening far away, but they seem more than adequate to me even for home theater. If you can point me to a classical recording or a movie with an over 100db peak, I'd love to test it.
Try listening to the race scene from Ready Player One
 
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amper42

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After listening to the Revel F328Be and the BMR Tower side by side in the same room for a few days I can easily see the strengths of each.

BMR Towers - The RAAL tweeter adds a slight bit of sheen to the cymbals and high treble. The F328Be tweeter is more subdued. For most of my Jazz listening I prefer the Be tweeter. However, when I play Orchestral music with the BMR Towers like "Barber, Sibelius & Scriabin Symphony No. 1 In One Movement Op. 9" (Samuel Barber), the BMR Tower boxes absolutely disappear and the music is enchanting. It's as if I'm in a hall instead of in front of two boxes. I don't get that same extent of open, smoothness with Orchestral music with the Revel F328Be.

Revel F328Be - These speakers offer more definition and a bit more bite than the BMR Towers - even at lower listening levels. The punch is hard and alive with the F328Be. This makes the F328Be exceptional with rhythmic music like Jazz, funk, electronic music. The F328Be has definition that my BMR Towers can't duplicate at the same SPL. I can increase the volume and get a bit more punch with the BMR Tower but it really doesn't offer the same exciting texture as the Revel F328Be.

For me these two speakers offer two totally different tastes. If I am looking for a smooth sound that oozes from everywhere the BMR Tower is my 1st choice. On the other hand, if I want an exciting speaker with amazing dynamic definition and tons of punch the F328Be would be my choice. While you might think they're both just speakers how can they sound that different? These two certainly offer completely different audio delivery styles to my ear.
 

jcarys

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Try listening to the race scene from Ready Player One
The next time the 4K is on sale, I'll get it. I've streamed it and I remember it being incredibly dynamic, but disc is really the only way to go. I'm trying to find the Roger Waters' Amused to Death Blu-ray set that is somewhere in my house, but it's hiding.
 

mj30250

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After listening to the Revel F328Be and the BMR Tower side by side in the same room for a few days I can easily see the strengths of each.

BMR Towers - The RAAL tweeter adds a slight bit of sheen to the cymbals and high treble. The F328Be tweeter is more subdued. For most of my Jazz listening I prefer the Be tweeter. However, when I play Orchestral music with the BMR Towers like "Barber, Sibelius & Scriabin Symphony No. 1 In One Movement Op. 9" (Samuel Barber), the BMR Tower boxes absolutely disappear and the music is enchanting. It's as if I'm in a hall instead of in front of two boxes. I don't get that same extent of open, smoothness with Orchestral music with the Revel F328Be.

Revel F328Be - These speakers offer more definition and a bit more bite than the BMR Towers - even at lower listening levels. The punch is hard and alive with the F328Be. This makes the F328Be exceptional with rhythmic music like Jazz, funk, electronic music. The F328Be has definition that my BMR Towers can't duplicate at the same SPL. I can increase the volume and get a bit more punch with the BMR Tower but it really doesn't offer the same exciting texture as the Revel F328Be.

For me these two speakers offer two totally different tastes. If I am looking for a smooth sound that oozes from everywhere the BMR Tower is my 1st choice. On the other hand, if I want an exciting speaker with amazing dynamic definition and tons of punch the F328Be would be my choice. While you might think they're both just speakers how can they sound that different? These two certainly offer completely different audio delivery styles to my ear.

Interesting. Were you running both sets full-range or w/ subs?
 
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amper42

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Interesting. Were you running both sets full-range or w/ subs?

During the comparison listening tests, I tried the BMR Tower and F328Be with the Denon 4700 and dual subwoofers with an 80Hz crossover. However, I actually preferred the sound of running these two speakers full range without subs using the RME ADI-2 FS DAC and P452 Purifi amp. The clarity of that stereo combination is wonderful to my ears. Both of these speakers have an amazing low end.
 

R Swerdlow

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While the 0-15 degree vertical BMR Tower meauresments are interesting. From a practical standpoint, I notice an immediate difference in the RAAL Tweeter sound when I stand up at the listening position 10 feet away - versus the Revel F328Be tweeter. The BMR Tower RAAL tweeter sits 36-38" off the floor while the Revel F328Be tweeter sits 46-47" off the floor with a very effective wave guide. The flush mounted RAAL ribbon tweeter sounds best when the tweeter is at ear level. The F328Be tweeter with wave guide is noticeably less directional.
The crossover frequencies on the BMR Tower are at 850 and 3,800 Hz. Between those two frequencies, the two mid-range BMR drivers are in use. It is worth remembering that in the BMR Tower, these mid-range drivers are arranged in MTM fashion, above & below the ribbon tweeter.

James Larson showed the losses in SPL he measured as he moved the microphone above (+degrees) and below (-degrees) the tweeter axis (see below). Those losses are in the frequency range of ~1.7 to 4-5 kHz, with the greatest loss shown at just above 2 kHz (see the -15° trace). This frequency range is covered by the mid-range drivers – not the ribbon tweeter.
image_large2

These losses are just what you would expect with two mid-range drivers arranged above and below a tweeter as an MTM. As you move a microphone or your ears higher or lower, you will notice a loss in the response because the relative distance between the two mid-range drivers changes. Those changes in distance result in changes in phase relationships. As you move further off-axis, you eventually get to point where the changed phases between the two mid drivers results in cancellations. The amount of loss varies with the physical distance between the two mid drivers and the frequencies tested.

The vertical off-axis response of all MTM speakers will do this. It has nothing to do with the tweeter.
 
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amper42

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The crossover frequencies on the BMR Tower are at 850 and 3,800 Hz. Between those two frequencies, the two mid-range BMR drivers are in use. It is worth remembering that in the BMR Tower, these mid-range drivers are arranged in MTM fashion, above & below the ribbon tweeter.

James Larson showed the losses in SPL he measured as he moved the microphone above (+degrees) and below (-degrees) the tweeter axis (see below). Those losses are in the frequency range of ~1.7 to 4-5 kHz, with the greatest loss shown at just above 2 kHz (see the -15° trace). This frequency range is covered by the mid-range drivers – not the ribbon tweeter.
image_large2

These losses are just what you would expect with two mid-range drivers arranged above and below a tweeter as an MTM. As you move a microphone or your ears higher or lower, you will notice a loss in the response because the relative distance between the two mid-range drivers changes. Those changes in distance result in changes in phase relationships. As you move further off-axis, you eventually get to point where the changed phases between the two mid drivers results in cancellations. The amount of loss varies with the physical distance between the two mid drivers and the frequencies tested.

The vertical off-axis response of all MTM speakers will do this. It has nothing to do with the tweeter.

While I understand the MTM issue, the RAAL tweeter is noticeably more directional than the Revel F328Be tweeter. I can replace the BMR Towers with the BMR Monitor with RAAL tweeter and it's evident the RAAL sounds best when the listener's ear is at the same height as the RAAL. The F328Be tweeter implementation is audibly less sensitive to the height of the listener's ear.
 

Jdunk54nl

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Ya, you get about +/- 10-15 degrees with the RAAL according to Erin's review of the old BMR. Some of the drivers have been updated, but the dispersions should be about the same still.

Philharmonic%20BMR_Vertical_Spectrogram_Full.png

Philharmonic%20BMR_360_Vertical_Polar.png
 
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