Dedicated (almost/semi dedicated) listening room setup

[ObjectiveSubjectivist]

Hi folks.
I've been a headphone listener for quite some time. With my new place that is coming in the next year or so I've decided to dedicate one room for 2 channel setup (possibly changing into multichannel/cinema system in the future).

Room dimensions are 3.5m X 5.6m. I plan to divide it into two sections:
1. Work/office area. Just a big table where I can work and do some occasional soldering job etc + a chair.
2. Listening space, with sofa/big chair and 2 channel system.

And I have couple of questions:
1. How to place a speakers. I prepare two propositions of the placement and would like to know your thoughts which one is "better" in terms of acoustics?
2. I'm aiming for Kii Three BXT system OR Revel f328be speakers. Aren't those speakers "too big" for this room?

Here are propositions of placement:
- picture on the right contains some medium sized bookcase to split room into two "sections"
- purple dots represent speakers
- schema contains dimensions and placement of windows/door

Some things that I want to mention:
1. Room treatment is something that is not a problem (no WAF needed as it's dedicated man's cave if you will)
2. As I said I'm aiming for Kii three BXT mainly because if additional DSP that is made to mitigate some of the room modes. But second option is Revels f328be + Mola Mola Kalugas - but that's rather unlikely as the cost is much higher and lacks DSP "magic".
3. Whole room is going to have carpet/soft lining on the whole floor
4. Room treatment is something that I have no hesitation to do
5. I'm ready to buy some microphone (minidsp umik1?) to perform measurements in room and treat room accordingly
6. Currently I'm listening to Dan Clark Stealths and I highly value what they offer - clean uncolored full spectrum of sound without obvious peaks and deeps in the delivery. I want something similar with my speaker setup.

To sum it up, I would love to hear thoughts of some experienced people how to approach "building" my dream setup, any articles/books to read, or/and any specific thing that I have to take into consideration.
Thanks in advance.

 

[BDWoody]

To sum it up, I would love to hear thoughts of some experienced people how to approach "building" my dream setup, any articles/books to read, or/and any specific thing that I have to take into consideration.
Thanks in advance.

If you haven't read Floyd Toole's book, that would be a great place to start.

 

[ObjectiveSubjectivist]

If you haven't read Floyd Toole's book, that would be a great place to start.

View attachment 282989

Oh yes that's the one I'm aware of and I'm looking to buy it, just waiting for second hand offering to show somewhere in europe.

 

[ExPerfectionist]

The layout on the right is theoretically "better" acoustics-wise. Ideally the speakers are out 1/3 of the length of the room, and the listening position another 3rd. Doesn't look like that would be possible with the desk in the back. But you can play around with positioning, as the next best is 1/5ths which would be 112cm out of 560 (3-4 feet) from the back wall behind the speakers. That's a lot more reasonable as the room isn't that big or dedicated to just listening to music.

Yes to room treatments - bass traps in the corners by the speakers, maybe the other corners as well; absorption at first reflection point on the walls; diffuser on the wall behind the speakers, maybe elsewhere in the room as well.

If you get the mic and mic stand/tripod, you can do measurements to find flatter response for speaker positioning and LP before you ask the DSP to "fix" anything.

You'll want to audition the speakers and equipment together in your space, and do a lot of tinkering. Room treatments will likely drastically change the sound, so if you know you're going to get it, get it very early on so you are judging speakers and everything based on "treated" sound.

For reference material, there's lots of articles and references here in the forums to dig into.

Additional reference:

Room Acoustics Primer - GIK Acoustics

For those who are new to room acoustics,our acoustic primer will help get you started. Article on acoustic panels, bass traps, diffusors and room setup.

www.gikacoustics.com

Educational Videos - Acoustic Panels | Bass Traps | Diffusors | GIK Acoustics

GIK Acoustics produces educational videos to help customers understand the dynamics of room acoustics and room treatments.

www.gikacoustics.com

RealTraps - Acoustics Articles

 

[DavidMcRoy]

My room is set up just like your second proposal, right down to a PC on a desk in the rear.

 

[boxerfan88]

Suggest to offset the chair, making one seat the MLP (apex of triangle)

 

[JHC]

I am building something similar as your placement B(dimension in metric), it will be treated and using active DSP speakers.

 

[JHC]

Designer's rendering of the room(ignore the main speaker shown), going with Vicoustic on the room treatments

 

[ObjectiveSubjectivist]

My room is set up just like your second proposal, right down to a PC on a desk in the rear.View attachment 283163

What are the room dimensions?

 

[Keith_W]

Here is a bit of reading material for you.

The 38% rule: set up your speakers lengthwise across the room (2nd option is better). Place your listening position there. Then set up your speakers for equilateral triangle listening.

Speaker Boundary Interference Response (SBIR). As a minimum, your speakers should be 60cm from the front wall.

The first option is bad, bad, bad. Your sofa is right up against the wall and you will get a LOT of early reflections which will interfere with bass, stereo imaging, and so on. People only do this because they have no choice, not because it's good. If you have the option, you should avoid it.

 

[ObjectiveSubjectivist]

Suggest to offset the chair, making one seat the MLP (apex of triangle)

I'm not sure if I understand what you mean. Could you elaborate more or/and add simple drawing.

 

[ObjectiveSubjectivist]

Room treatments will likely drastically change the sound, so if you know you're going to get it, get it very early on so you are judging speakers and everything based on "treated" sound.

So as I understand I can do a room treatment even without my desired speakers?
I mean I currently have 2 channel system that I can use in the future room at the beginning (q acoustics 3030i) and make room treatments accordingly.
The question is: is room treatment done for one speakers going to be optimal for the others?

 

[ExPerfectionist]

So as I understand I can do a room treatment even without my desired speakers?
I mean I currently have 2 channel system that I can use in the future room at the beginning (q acoustics 3030i) and make room treatments accordingly.
The question is: is room treatment done for one speakers going to be optimal for the others?

Yes, room treatments will benefit both current and future setup, and shouldn't be very different unless you move the speakers or listening position into different positions and need to adjust first reflection point positions, for example. Panels, diffusers, corner bass traps, etc. can go in now before the new setup.

 

[ObjectiveSubjectivist]

Thank you so much guys for the guidelines.
I still have time to read and learn some stuff until the room is ready, will keep you updated (thread will be updated accordingly) how the thing goes in the future.

 

[Axo1989]

Hi folks.
I've been a headphone listener for quite some time. With my new place that is coming in the next year or so I've decided to dedicate one room for 2 channel setup (possibly changing into multichannel/cinema system in the future).

Room dimensions are 3.5m X 5.6m. I plan to divide it into two sections:
1. Work/office area. Just a big table where I can work and do some occasional soldering job etc + a chair.
2. Listening space, with sofa/big chair and 2 channel system.

And I have couple of questions:
1. How to place a speakers. I prepare two propositions of the placement and would like to know your thoughts which one is "better" in terms of acoustics?
2. I'm aiming for Kii Three BXT system OR Revel f328be speakers. Aren't those speakers "too big" for this room?

Here are propositions of placement:
- picture on the right contains some medium sized bookcase to split room into two "sections"
- purple dots represent speakers
- schema contains dimensions and placement of windows/door
View attachment 282979 View attachment 282980


Some things that I want to mention:
1. Room treatment is something that is not a problem (no WAF needed as it's dedicated man's cave if you will)
2. As I said I'm aiming for Kii three BXT mainly because if additional DSP that is made to mitigate some of the room modes. But second option is Revels f328be + Mola Mola Kalugas - but that's rather unlikely as the cost is much higher and lacks DSP "magic".
3. Whole room is going to have carpet/soft lining on the whole floor
4. Room treatment is something that I have no hesitation to do
5. I'm ready to buy some microphone (minidsp umik1?) to perform measurements in room and treat room accordingly
6. Currently I'm listening to Dan Clark Stealths and I highly value what they offer - clean uncolored full spectrum of sound without obvious peaks and deeps in the delivery. I want something similar with my speaker setup.

To sum it up, I would love to hear thoughts of some experienced people how to approach "building" my dream setup, any articles/books to read, or/and any specific thing that I have to take into consideration.
Thanks in advance.

Maybe a late comment. When I return the audio gear we now use in the loft to the main space below, I'm planning a setup similar to your second image. But think of the thing directly behind the sofa as the desk, so you are facing the speakers (our space is a bit larger, more like 5x7 metres so everything is scaled up a bit, the sofa is 3-seat and so on). Of course you could turn your seat to face a rear wall work surface as well.

I can't say how it will sound, or the treatment details exactly. The floor will be mostly tatami and the ceiling is raked and slatted, so reverberation is already quite dry without more treatment. I'm thinking of single geometric/half-round diffusors at first lateral reflection points, and ~100 mm absorbers at contra-laterals, both on tracks so they can move to match sofa or desk listening positions if required for critical listening (using the front desk position for audio production, for example). Depending on results or preference, diffuser or absorber can be used at either/any location. We already have sliding wall tracks, you could use a simple hanging rail on solid walls.

Front and rear wall treatment to be determined, after measuring with furniture etc in place.

The Kii+BXT should be excellent for you, I think the cardiod bass control should be useful in a smaller room. The other active cardiod options may be worth a look depending on pricing in your area (Dutch&Dutch, Genelec stack, GGNTKT, Sigberg). I already have passive speakers, but may try a RiPol subwoofer if required.

 

[Purité Audio]

You can use REW set to the moving microphone setting, that will give you a very good idea of placement options to obtain the flattest FR.
Keith

 

[JHC]

Hi, want to share what I have been working on with the room treatment vendor, I paid for the service but many solution provider might do it for free. Something you can consider to cut out some guess work on room treatments.

 

[ObjectiveSubjectivist]

Hi, want to share what I have been working on with the room treatment vendor, I paid for the service but many solution provider might do it for free. Something you can consider to cut out some guess work on room treatments.

View attachment 290766

Yes I'm also considering some professional services.
But I like to learn some new stuff, especially when it's kinda "geeky" stuff

Ps. Thank you all for the useful information.
I'll definitely update the topic with some new concerns when the time come.

 

[ObjectiveSubjectivist]

Lately I was waiting local audio shop as I'm looking for a new budget headphones. I had to sell all me expensive stuff because of other important things.
I was impressed with Audeze Maxwell - I'll probably pull the trigger.

Anyway to the point, some time ago I was considering buying Bowers and Wilkins speakers for my new listening room. And the dealer of Audeze had Bowers (not sure what model it is but it was the highest one signature edition) in their listening room paired with other fancy stuff.


And to be honest, thank god I was able to listen them. I'm completely cured from Bowers. Tonality was on the bright side, lacked bass extension and overall quantity. What I liked was ability to play loud and keeping everything clean and clear, also soundstage seemed to be really nice once we changed the positioning and I experimented with my sitting position.

I know it's a bit off topic but I wanted to put some of my thoughts through my journey. Kinda like mini blog. Pity I cannot change the subject.

 

[NIN]

Hi folks.

To sum it up, I would love to hear thoughts of some experienced people how to approach "building" my dream setup, any articles/books to read, or/and any specific thing that I have to take into consideration.
Thanks in advance.

My first suggestion is if you want to put a lot of money on the system you should really go and listen to different acoustic approach. This is something you cannot read in a book what you prefer. For some a approach with more diffusers is they way they like it. Some prefer more damped approach. Some prefer a well damped first reflection, some do not. There is a rather big difference between the different approaches.
So that is my first suggestion.