Big news coming from Sound United in 2023!

[ryanosaur]

If Sound United makes a true 16-channel Denon with DLBC it's going to kick the ass of all the competitors I'm certain, because they're always ahead in value for money and in general ease of use, compatibility, and software stability.

Please, no 16-channel AVRs. (Unless maybe if they go the Anthem route and give only say, 7-channels of onboard amplification).

I'd like to see them tackle the AVM90 with a 15.4, or even 13.4 Processor.

 

[Vacceo]

Coming soon -- quantum expensive componentry from the folks in Binghamton (who might or might not recognize the irony).

At least, their amps have a great SINAD since forever, we have to give them that.

 

[Filmgeek47]

Agree. And as I am too new to this forum. I haven’t seen (m)any hard facts and figures where Dirac is provenly better. What would help is to have some REW measurements using both Dirac and Audyssey in a common living room listening environment with everything else unchanged. If that exists, please someone point me to it (I didn’t find any in that long XT32 vs Dirac Thread here - mostly subjective observations).

Yes the Dirac UI is better as the Windows MultiEQ software and Dirac interfaces currently better with REW, but with some, admittedly tedious manual effort I can get REW filter settings into Audyyssey either via Ratbuddyssey or a bit more convenient via the MultiEQ Software. Also the multi sub adjustments might be easier in Dirac, however I have not fully explored the Windows MultiEQ yet.

I did this with my Marantz. Didn’t test stereo, but for multichannel Dirac was hands down better. https://www.avsforum.com/threads/ha...ctual-shootouts.3238692/page-12#post-61557243

 

[peng]

I did this with my Marantz. Didn’t test stereo, but for multichannel Dirac was hands down better. https://www.avsforum.com/threads/ha...ctual-shootouts.3238692/page-12#post-61557243

Great job, and thank you, would be nice if you can do more comparison graphs using Ratbuddyssey or similar UI tools with the App. I find it strange that you couldn't get the Audyssey curve to be as extended in the low bass as Dirac's, that sharp dip even with 1/12 smoothing also seems inexplicable (based on Dirac's). I have not done similar comparisons (did do some comparison in stereo) yet but hopefully will, within a couple weeks (no mso though). Based on what I have seen and experienced so far, I would predict if I don't use the App with Ratbuddyssey, Dirac will win in terms of a smoother response but otherwise Audyssey would win. That would be based on graphs and for the range up to say 1,000 - 2,000 Hz as I am quite sure Dirac will get a flatter response to 20,000 Hz.

As to which one would sound better, I have no idea until I get it done, but it will be a very subjective matter regardless. Dirac does seem to have better looking impulse response, is the "better" difference audible, chances are it depends, and it may not be to everyone. From what I have seen so far, I have to agree with HamonicTHD's observations, so I would like to see more what he called hard facts and figures. Still I do highly recommend Dirac's PC processor version, and if Audyssey has something like that it would have been much easier to compare the two.

 

[hmt]

One thing to note is that with the audyssey calibration there is probably an issue with the Crossover region. Maybe inverting the subs would help here.

 

[SimpleTheater]

Please, no 16-channel AVRs. (Unless maybe if they go the Anthem route and give only say, 7-channels of onboard amplification).

I'd like to see them tackle the AVM90 with a 15.4, or even 13.4 Processor.

I couldn't agree more. Why AVR companies feel the need to give an amp for every channel they can decode is beyond me. I'm waiting for someone like Denon to make a 16 channel AVR with 4 channels of amplification, then recommend buying two of their dedicated five channel amps.

 

[alik1006]

That would be great news, if true.. I was planning on replacing my Denon with the AVM70 in a year, now I have to consider Denon or Marantz again, if they get rid of HDAMs or upgrade it with the one in the SR8015 if if Dirac DLBC will be included.

Similar thoughts assuming they bring back AKM (or other better DAC).

 

[Vacceo]

I couldn't agree more. Why AVR companies feel the need to give an amp for every channel they can decode is beyond me. I'm waiting for someone like Denon to make a 16 channel AVR with 4 channels of amplification, then recommend buying two of their dedicated five channel amps.

My experience is that the largest, almost ball room size home theatres, use no more than 13 speakers and 4 subwoofers.

For the most common case, I'd say it's a 7.2.4.

 

[hmt]

They could use some nice Hypex modules. 5 channels of amplification would be sufficient but I understand that they want the AVR to work for most without any additional amps. That's why NAD went with 9 channels.

 

[Keened]

My experience is that the largest, almost ball room size home theatres, use no more than 13 speakers and 4 subwoofers.

For the most common case, I'd say it's a 7.2.4.

If you have a ballroom sized home theater you can afford separate power amps

Also assuming even 7.2 is rather heady for common case usage. The market pretty much goes 3.1 for small spaces, 5.1 for most multi-channel people and 7.1 because it's a free gimme if you already have the space for 5.1 and some old speakers. Dual subs are rare, probably rarer than they should be, but the rise of 8" dual driver cubes and integrated app based DSP will probably change that in the next few years, but we're not there yet.

But yeah, 11.2 is the sweet spot with 6~8 channels of amplification for the surrounds+heights with most people offloading the fronts onto dedicated amps.

 

[ryanosaur]

I'd like to see 13.4 and/or 15.4 processing capability with 6-8 on-board Class D Amps to handle the Atmos channels.

(Imean, if we're wishing and all. )

 

[napfkuchen]

My Wishlist/Featureset for Denon X4800: 9 channels class D amps, Dirac and Auro3D

 

[Vacceo]

If you have a ballroom sized home theater you can afford separate power amps

Also assuming even 7.2 is rather heady for common case usage. The market pretty much goes 3.1 for small spaces, 5.1 for most multi-channel people and 7.1 because it's a free gimme if you already have the space for 5.1 and some old speakers. Dual subs are rare, probably rarer than they should be, but the rise of 8" dual driver cubes and integrated app based DSP will probably change that in the next few years, but we're not there yet.

But yeah, 11.2 is the sweet spot with 6~8 channels of amplification for the surrounds+heights with most people offloading the fronts onto dedicated amps.

A local guy, very keen on both home theatres and car audio, always considers that it´s not the amount of speakers/drivers, but the quality and volume of sound they produce.

Just as a car does not sound better because there are 15 drivers, a home theatre does not sound better because there are 30 speakers. If it is at home, I´d rather have a larger front stage, capable of high SPL without distortion, than double the amount of speakers.

 

[Sancus]

As far as I could tell from the HTP-1 and SDP-55 threads on avsforum, the main use of the 16 channel processors was doing 3-4 subs so 7.4.4 which is 15 channels.

Separating sub channels from regular ones in hardware is an outdated design, you should be able to use your available channels for whatever you want.

 

[ryanosaur]

As far as I could tell from the HTP-1 and SDP-55 threads on avsforum, the main use of the 16 channel processors was doing 3-4 subs so 7.4.4 which is 15 channels.

Separating sub channels from regular ones in hardware is an outdated design, you should be able to use your available channels for whatever you want.

I agree. With today's computer power, there should be no reason really for assignable channels to not be available, and that should include LFE/Sub output as well. Same with individually switched and assignable Amp Channels.

 

[amper42]

I will be surprised if Denon is still in business in 2025. Sound United doubled AVR prices, installed lower quality DACs, drastically eliminated local repair support and then sold the company to a medical device manufacturer whose stock has crashed down 55% in 6 months. It will be hard for the Audio brands under MASI to survive and grow. Masimo Corporation will likely be looking to massively cut expenses and R&D to survive. Having this occur while the FED is continually hiking rates in .50 increments won't help company valuations.

 

[multisport4me]

I will be surprised if Denon is still in business in 2025. Sound United doubled AVR prices, installed lower quality DACs, drastically eliminated local repair support and then sold the company to a medical device manufacturer whose stock has crashed down 55% in 6 months. It will be hard for the Audio brands under MASI to survive and grow. Masimo Corporation will likely be looking to massively cut expenses and R&D to survive. Having this occur while the FED is continually hiking rates in .50 increments won't help company valuations.

Pretty dire conjecture and conclusion. Albeit, the synergy of MASI and Sound United is dubious at best. I suppose on the optimistic side is that MASI manages to leverage the vast Sound United channels (which is the impetus of the deal) and then sell off Sound United's various brands piece meal. Who knows. I mean, MASI doesn't really NEED all of the brands under Sound United today to access the channels since they largely (if not entirely) overlap. So we could easily see them start to sell off some of those brands. I assume the deal was accretive as well so maybe there is some small upside to EPS near term...although their stock sure doesn't reflect any upside of late.

Frankly, I am surprised someone like Legrand didn't buy them. Legrand has a large portfolio of commercial AV businesses and the Sound United portfolio would have been a logical extension whilst giving Legrand access to sound processing and amplification capabilities they don't have today and access to the same channels MASI covets.

Oh well. If they do fold, it will be a sad day. But others will come along. The CEDIA channel is rife with many a startup company chasing and sometimes displacing the bigger dogs. Control4 comes to mind. Maybe Storm Audio will hockey stick with an expanded, more accessible product line? Who knows. If Sound United goes, someone will come along at some point. For now, we're in the dark ages of HT and HiFI and it sucks.

 

[dlaloum]

Please, no 16-channel AVRs. (Unless maybe if they go the Anthem route and give only say, 7-channels of onboard amplification).

I'd like to see them tackle the AVM90 with a 15.4, or even 13.4 Processor.

8 channels of assignable onboard amplifications would be excellent - 4 surrounds and 4 heights, leaving L/C/R to an external amp - or alternatively enough amplification for a fully internal 7.1 setup....

But not so special if it is not assignable....

 

[dlaloum]

One thing I would like to see make a comeback, is the option if Wide speakers - these used to have an outsize impact on immersion....

I would much prefer a 7.1 system to have wide rather than rear surround

 

[dlaloum]

Here is a thought.... it is possible that SU are considering providing a Dirac option due to new features that Dirac are planning on issuing this year...

Dirac has discussed its "Unison" capability, which would use ALL speakers jointly to actively correct each other within the Room space.

Audyssey has nothing like it. - this would be a completely new capability, and combined with DLBC (or whatever they are going to call the integrated Sub handling capability) - will provide a completely new level of functionality.

It is quite likely that a sizable portion of the customer base, would be willing to pay an extra levy for such a capability - which could therefore be provided as an optional extra.... (competition would then drive whether or not it is included in an AVR)

My gut feel, is that the next series of AVR releases from Onkyo, will include this too.... and presumably, Dirac are talkin to all the current Dirac licencees about it!