For me, for the last 15 years, the very basic line has been two-way speakers with a 15" woofer and 3" phragm compression driver in a waveguide\horn, crossed at about 800 Hz. Well, and some kind of amplifier.
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Is h-fi cheap or expensive
- Thread starter Yorkshire Mouth
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jayapple
Active Member
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- Feb 21, 2022
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The main reason you think it's cheap is because it's made in China.
Chinese enterprises are fond of malicious competition and use low prices to seize the market, whether it's consumer electronics or bulk products like home appliances and automobiles.
This is of course beneficial to consumers, but I think it's actually completely detrimental to the healthy development of the industry.
Japan now has a pricing system where even junk can be sold at a good price. Of course, they have fallen behind China in many industries, but they can still maintain high profits. A simple example is brands like FOSI and SMSL, which are very cheap but have pitifully low profits, so they have to keep launching new products. But for instance, a DENON AVR costs several thousand dollars, while if it were made in China, a few hundred dollars would be enough.
I don't know if American enterprises have gone through such a process of seizing the market, but this is definitely not healthy.
Waxx
Major Contributor
There have always been expensive and cheap audio equipment, but good quality got very cheap in the 30 years i'm into this. You can buy top of the line cleaan amplifiers for a few hundred €/$ now, and quiet good sounding speakers for similar money. When i started this a top of the line amp was at least a few thousands. And even tube amps got a lot cheaper for quiet ok sound quality.
And the source can be a lot, even a cheap phone with BT protocols of a few years ago sounds a lot cleaner than a lot from 30 years ago when tapedecks and (if you were rich) MiniDisk were used a lot. The good cd players cost nothing now, while back then it was a serious investment.
But on the same hand, the market for overhyped crazy priced "audiophile" equipment is still growing it seems if you see how many brand target that part. But you don't need that (except maybe for your ego). You can have a good setup for less than 1K also.
And the source can be a lot, even a cheap phone with BT protocols of a few years ago sounds a lot cleaner than a lot from 30 years ago when tapedecks and (if you were rich) MiniDisk were used a lot. The good cd players cost nothing now, while back then it was a serious investment.
But on the same hand, the market for overhyped crazy priced "audiophile" equipment is still growing it seems if you see how many brand target that part. But you don't need that (except maybe for your ego). You can have a good setup for less than 1K also.
I think this has really nothing to do with some kind of malice from the Chinese. It's just that nowadays China gets the lion's share of the world manufacturing capabilities and that they have the know-how and cultural tradition to trade goods and that the Chinese domestic market alone absorbs a huge amount of manufactured goods. In the industry, the more items you built, the less an individual item costs to be manufactured.
The USA used to have the same kind of competitive advantages for some years before and after WWII, when they was the undisputed leader in economical and industrial terms.
I also think acoustic competency have increased , manufacturer can now using similar cheap drivers as they always used factor in directivity and other acoustic and psychoacoustic phenomena and build products that simply works better in normal rooms .
Old good speakers are still good on axis but would take massive efforts to treat the room to get similar results and they still much more sensitive to listen positions etc .
My modern speakers simply has a larger area of acceptable sound quality .
Also thinks computer and software helps a lot, simulation and CAD in general means that you can predict performance before you built any prototypes .
You can now spend the effort optimizing even the cheapest of drivers and cabinets. I think in the past much low hanging fruit was just left out to chance .
DanielT
Master Contributor
Click bait, it can be. He is not the only one nor the first to do so.
Speaking of done it before. Yellow journalism. I didn't know that description, saw it now:
In journalism, yellow journalism and the yellow press are American newspapers that use eye-catching headlines and sensationalized exaggerations for increased sales. This term is chiefly used in American English, whereas in the United Kingdom, the similar term tabloid journalism is more common. ....
Yellow journalism emerged in the intense battle for readers by two newspapers in New York City in 1890s. It was not common in other cities.
Yellow journalism - Wikipedia
The terms exists in Germany as well. In every kiosk there's a whole section with mostly women's magazines, dealing with sensationalist gossip about stars and European royals and nobility (of which there's still endless amounts, there must be a nest somewhere), mixed with geriatric tips and cooking recipes. Basically "horse and princess" magazines for little girls who've grown old. VERY light reading - and mostly yellow covers.Click bait, it can be. He is not the only one nor the first to do so.
Speaking of done it before. Yellow journalism. I didn't know that description, saw it now:
In journalism, yellow journalism and the yellow press are American newspapers that use eye-catching headlines and sensationalized exaggerations for increased sales. This term is chiefly used in American English, whereas in the United Kingdom, the similar term tabloid journalism is more common. ....
Yellow journalism emerged in the intense battle for readers by two newspapers in New York City in 1890s. It was not common in other cities.
Yellow journalism - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
DanielT
Master Contributor
Since you mentioned gossip, I think what you say fits in, or rather it is what you say:The terms exists in Germany as well. In every kiosk there's a whole section with mostly women's magazines, dealing with sensationalist gossip about stars and European royals and nobility (of which there's still endless amounts, there must be a nest somewhere), mixed with geriatric tips and cooking recipes. Basically "horse and princess" magazines for little girls who've grown old. VERY light reading - and mostly yellow covers.
Gossip columnist - Wikipedia
Perhaps we should return to the topic of the thread? II take the first five speakers on a Swedish site that advertises used HiFi. Are these speakers cheap or expensive?:
Arteluthe "Stiletto": $7200
____
Kef LSX (first version): $270
_____
QLN 612: $530
___
Monitor Audio Radius 90: $67
___
Bowers and Wilkins, B&W, CM 4: $630
All speakers above, according to the sellers, in fully functional condition.
Begagnad hifi och stereo, Högtalare
hifitorget.se
all things are relative. i might not have the level of gear i have were i to pay todays prices. and my gear is pedestrian but sounds really fabulous to me.
my old jbl prepro was $5100 new in 1989. that's about 12k, now, yea all the debate. i paid $250 for it some years ago. i swear i slam dunks my schiit saga+. they aren't in the same class in any way.
i have some 18 year old jbl l890s that i swear sound muuuch better than its class. i got them for $700, new about $2100. they might get beat on speed but that's about it. note attack, timbre, crispness, depth, soundstage, nope. the next level for me would be jbl hdi3800s at about 5k. or maybe better yet, volti luceras at 10k, jbl fanboy that i am.
my old jbl prepro was $5100 new in 1989. that's about 12k, now, yea all the debate. i paid $250 for it some years ago. i swear i slam dunks my schiit saga+. they aren't in the same class in any way.
i have some 18 year old jbl l890s that i swear sound muuuch better than its class. i got them for $700, new about $2100. they might get beat on speed but that's about it. note attack, timbre, crispness, depth, soundstage, nope. the next level for me would be jbl hdi3800s at about 5k. or maybe better yet, volti luceras at 10k, jbl fanboy that i am.
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